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Advice please chaps....

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Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 14 Jun 2017, 20:55

Evening All,

This is about my design portfolio masterpiece - The Tiger Oak Cabinet.

I've had the TOC listed on ebay for a couple of months now with a Buy-it-now at £70,000. The idea was to hopefully arouse somebody, or at least advertise my other work as well. Here's the listing and it's had '1' watcher for a few weeks...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332122815849? ... 1555.l2649

Now here's the thing...

I've received an email today (opened it this evening) from a trading company in the UAE:

It reads;

Attn:
We are interested in the purchase of your item listed on this email. Kindly confirm if it is available for sale at this time? If available,i would like to know the discounted price . We are a trading company located in the United Arab Emirate (UAE).

Kind Regards,
Bobby Chakraborty
Topmars Tradings LLC
200 Hamriyah Free Zone
Sharjah,
United Arab Emirate


I've Googled the company and all appears normal, but I also found a link to the company with a different personal name which says the company doesn't exist.

I've replied to the email.

If anyone knows or has seen anything similar, please share.

TIA
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Jimmy Mack » 14 Jun 2017, 21:07

Cricky... What a brilliant idea to pop the tiger cabinet on eBay!

Though I'm not sure what you should do now, I've had some very strange long distant enquiries in the past, all of which I've ignored as I just don't trust them one jott.

I'm not saying write it off, but approach with extreme caution which you appear to be.

Can't help much, but someone will be along with something useful.

The eBay listing is an interesting idea, it'll be good for seo too, you got me thinking... See you in the UAE sometime soon



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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby timothyedoran » 14 Jun 2017, 21:26

Google topmars trading and you get this result. https://m.dotmed.com/virtual-trade-show ... ings/55694

What do you think.

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Jimmy Mack » 14 Jun 2017, 21:30

timothyedoran wrote:Google topmars trading and you get this result. https://m.dotmed.com/virtual-trade-show ... ings/55694

What do you think.

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Yep, bin it.

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby timothyedoran » 14 Jun 2017, 21:49

Jimmy Mack wrote:
timothyedoran wrote:Google topmars trading and you get this result. https://m.dotmed.com/virtual-trade-show ... ings/55694

What do you think.

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Yep, bin it.

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Yer. If something smells fishy it's normally a fish

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 14 Jun 2017, 22:58

Jimmy Mack wrote:Cricky... What a brilliant idea to pop the tiger cabinet on eBay!

Though I'm not sure what you should do now, I've had some very strange long distant enquiries in the past, all of which I've ignored as I just don't trust them one jott.

I'm not saying write it off, but approach with extreme caution which you appear to be.

Can't help much, but someone will be along with something useful.

The eBay listing is an interesting idea, it'll be good for seo too, you got me thinking... See you in the UAE sometime soon



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I've had a few of my pieces on ebay for a while - a bit of free publicity and who knows who might come knocking on the door.... :eusa-think:

Yep, see you over there - I'll be the one with a flat cap on my head holding a pint of Boddingtons. :lol:
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 14 Jun 2017, 22:59

timothyedoran wrote:Google topmars trading and you get this result. https://m.dotmed.com/virtual-trade-show ... ings/55694

What do you think.

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Yes, I found that earlier. :|

I can't think what the scam could be or am I missing something :eusa-think:
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Rod » 14 Jun 2017, 23:49

If he asks for money or details of your account then I'd be worried.
Using Paypal should be ok or am I missing something- he should be paying you.
I suppose he could say the goods were faulty and get a refund ( and your masterpiece).
Chakraborty is a very common Bengali (Indian) surname.

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby timothyedoran » 15 Jun 2017, 00:21

There are loads of scams. Look at this for example. Really smart.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... ?t=3384012

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby RogerS » 15 Jun 2017, 05:59

Mmmm...normally I'd also be inclined to bin it were it not for one thing - namely, that type of furniture goes down a bomb in the Middle East.

Why not reply and say that is is available to them at a discounted price of £40,000 (if anything this is still to high. For example, one of my clocks on sale in an Edinburgh upmarket retail establishment for £40 K was sold to them for £20k (not by me I hasten to add).

Say you have had a lot of interested from Qatar and Saudi Arabia and as a sign of their good faith you require a £5000 deposit to give them exclusive rights. Set up a new bank account and give them the BACS details.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby StevieB » 15 Jun 2017, 08:21

Pinch - don't let the amount of money blind you to what could very well be a dodgy deal. If you were listing a piece of furniture for £1k and got an approach from the UAE then I suspect you would ignore it.

If someone is interested in a £70k piece of furniture, they are certainly capable of getting a representative to come and see it in person and liaise with you. Heck, given you have not built the piece fully yet, at that price I would expect any buyer to want to look it over, bespoke it a bit to their tastes, choose the finish etc etc. To my mind, an e-mail only contact through e-bay simply is not realistic for this type of market. Do we really think a sheik who can afford £70k for a piece of furniture is sitting on e-bay looking for a bargain, or has someone to do this for them?

Was watching a programme on posh hotels the other day - the Mandarin Hyde Park I think. They had a Middle East Royal family stay for a couple of months, knocked up a bill in excess of £100k and it took them 9 months to pay it after lots of wrangling. They came back for a second visit and still left without paying! It appears to be a differnt world at that level and normal rules the likes of you and I abide by simply do not apply.

Plus think of the e-bay fees!

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Tusses » 15 Jun 2017, 09:37

ebay fees are capped Steve ! lol

Don't accept paypal or credit card, or anything else that is refundable.

Bank transfer should be ok, but it's work asking your bank about accepting payments that can't be reversed.

maybe some type of trusted escrow ?

your buyers for that kind of work are not going to be "normal" . so it's going to be "interesting", whoever makes an offer on it

Maybe get a solicitor, or auction house involved ? someone who is used to dealing with high price "art" sales
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby 9fingers » 15 Jun 2017, 09:39

RogerS wrote:Mmmm...normally I'd also be inclined to bin it were it not for one thing - namely, that type of furniture goes down a bomb in the Middle East.

Why not reply and say that is is available to them at a discounted price of £40,000 (if anything this is still to high. For example, one of my clocks on sale in an Edinburgh upmarket retail establishment for £40 K was sold to them for £20k (not by me I hasten to add).

Say you have had a lot of interested from Qatar and Saudi Arabia and as a sign of their good faith you require a £5000 deposit to give them exclusive rights. Set up a new bank account and give them the BACS details.



I'd make sure that the deposit is large enough to cover all your costs in time, materials and possibly shipping and is moved out of the new bank account on arrival to another safe account with no ability of chargeback etc
At least then you are financially covered if it turns out to be a frustrated order and you can sell it on and consider whether you use any of the proceeds to give a partial refund of the deposit if it troubles you morally.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby RogerS » 15 Jun 2017, 10:06

I was thinking more that the initial deposit was to flush them out, Bob, and not to be a deposit per se.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby 9fingers » 15 Jun 2017, 10:13

RogerS wrote:I was thinking more that the initial deposit was to flush them out, Bob, and not to be a deposit per se.



OK yes it would have that effect on a timewaster but if they did have a valid interest and genuine intentions, the deposit needs to cover all costs and make it very painful for them if they tried to back out later.

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 15 Jun 2017, 19:13

Guys, I've quickly read through your posts with thanks, but before replying, and with excitement, I must share another email I've just opened tonight.

Firstly, I replied to the opening email last night which reads:

Dear Bobby Chakraborty,

Thank you for your enquiry about the Tiger Oak Cabinet.

I am a bespoke furniture designer & maker and I have not yet made the Tiger Oak Cabinet. I am looking for someone to commission me to make it for them. I have estimated the cabinet to cost £70,000 (Pound Sterling) to make over a period of approximately 18 months.

If you are still interested, I am happy to answer any questions you might have.

Best regards,

Paul Pinchefsky.


And this is the reply I've opened this evening;


Hello,
Your offer is acceptable for the passive system. Please send us a proforma invoice with the payment details. We will be responsible for the collection after payment must have been made. Payment would be made in advance via bank transfer as soon as we have the relevant details.


Kind Regards,
Bobby Chakraborty
Topmars Tradings LLC
200 Hamriyah Free Zone
Sharjah,
United Arab Emirate


I don't know what to make of this. What could the scam be if it is one - bank details? I thought bank details are protected against scammers and if their intention was to wipe out the bank account, wouldn't they need much more than just bank transfer details?

Perhaps I should send them a proforma invoice with one of my bank accounts which has a current balance of 0.00.

Advice please chaps...

Is this too good to be true?
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Andyp » 15 Jun 2017, 19:40

Paul, I feel for you matey. I think Martin Lewis often says if it seems to good to be true then it usually is. Why would they be happy to stump up the whole amount without a further consultation?

By all means if you have a dormant account then why not but proceed with caution. Ten bob says this is not genuine.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby StevieB » 15 Jun 2017, 19:50

Speak to your bank, see what they advise. Explain your concerns and that for you this is a good chunk of business. They may be able to put protections in place to help you, or confirm deposits are genuine.

It does sound too good to be true to me however, particularly since you only have an outline sketch in the listing, coupled with the original request for a 'best price' now changing to a 'fine to pay full price' e-mail. I still have a major concern that you have had no discussion with the client about the work itself.

A scam will work in one of 2 ways - either they falsify payment and get the goods for free, or they are after money/data/details and don't care if they get the item. The former is unlikely given the 18 month turn around time. The latter is possible so speak to your bank.

I am not au fait with e-bay practices, but is it possilbe that they make a false payment, then complain to e-bay they have not received the goods and e-bay side with the purchaser automatically and try to get monies from you?

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 15 Jun 2017, 20:06

Thanks Andy & Steve.

I've just come back on here to say I am going to phone my bank tomorrow and tell them everything and then go by their advice. I see you've advised that too Steve - cheers.

Mrs P has just asked me what my instinct is telling me, and to be completely honest, it isn't telling me anything. Yes, this probably is a clever scam, but the connection is throwing me. I'll have a serious chat with my bank tomorrow and see what they have to say.

Good quote Andy (Martin Lewis), and, it's probably true.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby timothyedoran » 15 Jun 2017, 21:10

Anyone with 70k to spend on a bit of furniture would
a. Be dealing with you through a representative who would fastidiously check out your work.
B. Not be using eBay as their shop catalogue.

Please delete the emails and move on. Only tears will follow.

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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby RogerS » 15 Jun 2017, 21:16

StevieB wrote:Speak to your bank, see what they advise. Explain your concerns and that for you this is a good chunk of business. They may be able to put protections in place to help you, or confirm deposits are genuine.

....
Steve


Aw, c'mon Steve. Do you really think your bank is going to give out any advice that might come back and bite them? The average training/experience of your typical High Street bank is pretty poor TBH. They go by the book. And their book will have nothing to say on this scenario. Their default position will be 'Say No' because that way Pinch can;'t come back and sue them. That is ALL that they are interested in.

Pinch...use my approach. That way you have not burnt any boats and have not exposed yourself to risk.
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Re: Advice please chaps....

Postby Pinch » 16 Jun 2017, 08:28

Well chaps, I'm over the excitement of wanting to think this was genuine. Thanks for all the good solid advice. I'm going to play along with the scam for as long as I can - I've emailed the chap asking for a contact telephone number so we can discuss the deal in greater detail. But, I probably won't receive a reply now.

I did speak with the bank last night and they couldn't really advise on the best approach. She did say that if I send my bank details, the scammers 'would' transfer the money, but then dispute not receiving the goods within a couple of days and this would put me in a lot of trouble. I still don't understand how this works. She went on to say I could send out a bank draft for them to sign and transfer the money that way, but this isn't going to happen.

I got involved with a scam years back and played along with it. I got the fraud squad and the bank involved before pursuing it and all was good. Long short of it... The scammer sent me a bank draft for £6k and I banked it. I was then meant to draw the 6k and send it out to the scammer, but I didn't of course. The scammers phoned me asking for the cash and I told them I couldn't draw this out for 14 days. I never heard back from the scammers and sure enough, the draft was referred a few days after banking it. If I did withdraw the cash and sent it out to the scammers, I would then have become a victim and liable for the 6k.

Interestingly, if you Google the above UAE address, this thread now appears on the first page of the Google search.

I'll keep you posted of any developments.
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