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Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacement. IT WORKS

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby 9fingers » 23 Aug 2017, 13:55

For a quick peek into the nightmare of dimming Fluorescents have a read here

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/Arti ... gType=1033

accept information overload and then decide that it is not worth the aggro as you have got used to fixed brightness ones to date anyway! :lol:

Bob
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 23 Aug 2017, 15:23

If that's your assessment Bob then there is no hope for me.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Robert » 23 Aug 2017, 16:08

Don't think there are many electronic ballasts that you just run off a dimmer switch. Usually is is separate control wires that go to a variable resistor providing 0-10V DC so I'd not bother if I was you.
Think I've got a few electronic ballasts in the loft. Might even be a 36W twin. Not sure how I'd get it to you if there is one. I can look later.

edit.
just looked I have 3 twin 58W and a bunch of T5 14 to 35W ballasts, No 36W unfortunately.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 23 Aug 2017, 17:06

That's kind of you to look Robert, thanks.
No point in me getting the dimmable ones then so that'll save me a few bob.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 12:54

9fingers wrote:For a quick peek into the nightmare of dimming Fluorescents have a read here

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/Arti ... gType=1033

accept information overload and then decide that it is not worth the aggro as you have got used to fixed brightness ones to date anyway! :lol:

Bob


I have been having a chat with a chap at BLT direct who assures me that this dimmer switch
https://www.bltdirect.com/1-gang-300w-2 ... ite-button
will work with the dimmable HF Philips ballast.
I am willing to give it a try and go back to non-dimmable if it does not work.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2017, 13:02

Andyp wrote:
9fingers wrote:For a quick peek into the nightmare of dimming Fluorescents have a read here

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/Arti ... gType=1033

accept information overload and then decide that it is not worth the aggro as you have got used to fixed brightness ones to date anyway! :lol:

Bob


I have been having a chat with a chap at BLT direct who assures me that this dimmer switch
https://www.bltdirect.com/1-gang-300w-2 ... ite-button
will work with the dimmable HF Philips ballast.
I am willing to give it a try and go back to non-dimmable if it does not work.


Might be worth getting in an email if you have not already as the website say dimmable CFL but no mention of HF ballast. Check also that it does not need more wires between dimmer and ballast than you have available.

Good Luck
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 13:25

Thanks Bob, I have already emailed the manufacturers Varilight.

I will let you know.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2017, 13:37

Andyp wrote:Thanks Bob, I have already emailed the manufacturers Varilight.

I will let you know.


Because it is such a potential minefield both to know what works with what and the effective flicker rate, I think is worth having something in writing if it turns out that things don't work as sales people claim to form the basis of a "but you said...." conversation.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Tusses » 24 Aug 2017, 14:19

do they do remote control dimming fluorescents ? .. I just bought a couple of GU10 LED's , and noticed some with a little hand held remote dimmer.

all for about 99p inc delivery of course ! :lol:
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 14:42

I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Tusses » 24 Aug 2017, 14:59

this was the sort of thing I saw .. I assume the remote is built in to the bulb ? .. didn't read it all TBH , but wondered if you could get something similar in tube format, so you don't have to worry about wiring and dimmer switches etc.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GU10-4W-Dimma ... SwImRYb01G
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 16:18

Oh I see. I suggest you give BLT a ring. They have been very helpful to me.

They confirm that they had spoken to Varilight about the switch/ballast combination who confirm it will be OK.

Whether this gormless idiot can make sense of the wiring diagram is another matter.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Tusses » 24 Aug 2017, 16:22

I was actually thinking of you .. with the mystery of dimming tubes and extra wiring and dimmers and ballasts and .. err .. everything else ! lol

Just thought if you had a bulb or light unit that was remote controlled, you wouldn't have to worry.

but if you are sorted that's good :-)
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2017, 16:23

Andyp wrote:Whether this gormless idiot can make sense of the wiring diagram is another matter.


Well if it does not include a relay there is some hope? :lol:

You might just have a :idea: moment?

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 16:48

Tusses wrote:I was actually thinking of you .. with the mystery of dimming tubes and extra wiring and dimmers and ballasts and .. err .. everything else ! lol

Just thought if you had a bulb or light unit that was remote controlled, you wouldn't have to worry.

but if you are sorted that's good :-)


Oh I see. Being a bit dim as usual - pun intented.

I fancy a wiring challenge see comment from Bob above. Being as there is no relay involved this all should go very easily.

Fortunately for me a fully qualified electronics expert is coming chez moi in a few weeks time. If he wants a cuppa and piece of cake he might have to earn it. :)
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Tusses » 24 Aug 2017, 16:51

:lol:

make the most .. but letting his tyres down would be a bit much ? :eusa-shhh:
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Robert » 24 Aug 2017, 17:06

I retired from manufacturing lighting in 2006 so I'm now out of touch with the latest equipment.

Personally I wouldn't touch dimming with fluorescents in your situation. We often used dimming gear in commercial fluorescents and as you dim them down you get strobing caused by the discharge being a little unstable with patterns travelling along the lamps.

That was with commercial 10V control. How it will be with a dimmer made by Varilight I don't know. I bought a Varilight brand dimmer for some LEDs I installed and ended up returning it because of flashing.

HF gear is a good idea, dimming is not.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby old » 24 Aug 2017, 18:59

I picked up a hf unit to replace starter and choke and it starts up very quick and i can detect no flicker. so economical as you use fitting and tube just mains input and 2x2 wires to tube pins.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 20:05

Robert wrote:I retired from manufacturing lighting in 2006 so I'm now out of touch with the latest equipment.

Personally I wouldn't touch dimming with fluorescents in your situation. We often used dimming gear in commercial fluorescents and as you dim them down you get strobing caused by the discharge being a little unstable with patterns travelling along the lamps.

That was with commercial 10V control. How it will be with a dimmer made by Varilight I don't know. I bought a Varilight brand dimmer for some LEDs I installed and ended up returning it because of flashing.

HF gear is a good idea, dimming is not.


Robert I appreciate you sharing your experience. And I take your advice seriously.
Can I do any damage to either the ballast or the tubes by giving the dimmer switch a try?
I would not dream of dimming down by as much as say 50%. Quite how far I don't know but I reckon 10 or 20% might be enough to take away the shock of bright light my daughter says she sometimes experiences when first coming into the kitchen from an otherwise quite dim hallway.
If none of this works I'll be scrapping the flouri tubes and thinking of something else.
I also want to do something before school starts and the 7am breakfasts start again.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 24 Aug 2017, 20:09

old wrote:I picked up a hf unit to replace starter and choke and it starts up very quick and i can detect no flicker. so economical as you use fitting and tube just mains input and 2x2 wires to tube pins.


Thanks Chris. It is not the detectable flicker that is the problem. Some epilepsy sufferers can detect, more correctly their brain can detect, things that "normal" people cannot.
Do you also notive that there is no hum from the HF choke.

By the way is it a choke or a ballast? I suspect it is one and the same.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2017, 20:24

Andyp wrote:
old wrote:I picked up a hf unit to replace starter and choke and it starts up very quick and i can detect no flicker. so economical as you use fitting and tube just mains input and 2x2 wires to tube pins.


Thanks Chris. It is not the detectable flicker that is the problem. Some epilepsy sufferers can detect, more correctly their brain can detect, things that "normal" people cannot.
Do you also notive that there is no hum from the HF choke.

By the way is it a choke or a ballast? I suspect it is one and the same.


A choke is a name for a cored inductor ( a coil of wire wound onto a ferromagentic core) aka solenoid

A ballast is the name given to some devices used for controlling the power (usu. current) to a device or circuit.

In an old fashioned fluorescent lamp, the current flowing in the tube, which has to be controlled, an iron cored choke or inductance is used.

The modern HF units are named ballasts as they largely replace the older style ballast but they have a much more complex function as they provide acceptable power factor correction and control of the tube in terms of both striking the discharge, managing the tube heaters and then limiting the current in the tube in a virtually lossless way.

No way should they be called chokes. Many sparkies will not doubt continue to miss name these things and they rarely fully understand what they are doing as they were taught by rote.

hth

Bob
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby RogerS » 24 Aug 2017, 21:05

Andyp wrote:Thanks Bob, I have already emailed the manufacturers Varilight.

I will let you know.
I rate Varilight as they seem very open and knowledgeable and their business philosophy seems very sound

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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Robert » 24 Aug 2017, 21:31

couldn't you just have a second lower powered light in the room for the turn on shock situation?

You'll do no harm by trying the dimmer. The lamps are harder to start at low level so you may end up turning on bright then dimming.
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby Andyp » 25 Aug 2017, 09:00

Good news Robert. Dimming is not an option. I have just had a peek at my switch and it appears to have just two wires going in. I have no way of running the extra two low voltage wires to the ballast. :(
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Re: Flicker Free Flourescent Tube replacment

Postby old » 25 Aug 2017, 09:50

Here is a link to controllable lighting for you to consider:-
http://www2.meethue.com/en-gb?origin=rH ... CI0aAo1dEA

hope its helpfull.
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