It is currently 21 Nov 2018, 16:41

Diesel Ban

Hang up your Chisels and Plane blades and take a load off with a recently turned goblet of your favourite poison, in the lounge of our Gentlemen's (and ladies) Club.

Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 12:37

I found this interesting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... l_vehicles

There is going to be a complete ban on all Diesel vehicles in just 7 years time in,
Athens, Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, Paris and Rome. Given the dreadful air quality in our capital why are Londoners having to wait until 2040 just for a ban on new ICE car sales?

Richard Branson was on the TV this morning (which prompted me to look) saying we need to bring this forward, 2040 is much too late.
User avatar
Woodster
Sapling
 
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 12:58

Interesting point. Here's a thought. Rural areas ...just wondering how quickly (if ever) there are charging points installed for public access. Or that there is the necessary investment in the rural electrical infrastructure to support 'at home' charging. Of course I am worrying unnecessarily. After all, just look at how successful mobile coverage in rural areas is. And high speed broadband.

Well, we can always rely on public transport. :eusa-whistle:
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5544
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Please God. Make it stop raining.
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 13:03

And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5544
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Please God. Make it stop raining.
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 13:20

RogerS wrote:And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.


Not sure if that’s being defeatist or not really. It’s been put forward for example that every parking space at places like supermarkets could have charging points.

Buying petrol for the early automobiles was a real PITA for the first 20 odd years as there weren’t any petrol stations but they managed somehow! :lol:
User avatar
Woodster
Sapling
 
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 14:27

Woodster wrote:
RogerS wrote:And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.


Not sure if that’s being defeatist or not really. It’s been put forward for example that every parking space at places like supermarkets could have charging points.

Buying petrol for the early automobiles was a real PITA for the first 20 odd years as there weren’t any petrol stations but they managed somehow! :lol:


Read the article where they are exploring possible solutions.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5544
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Please God. Make it stop raining.
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 16:18

This so called “insight” makes the same primary mistake, one of range.

In the first paragraph:

“But if all cars were electric and they were to have the range of today’s petrol and diesel cars”

Most modern cars have a range of about 500 miles but how many people drive that distance in one go?
Very very very few would be my guess.

If you divide the average mileage UK drivers do each year.

https://www.thinkmoney.co.uk/news-advic ... 8581-0.htm

By the number of journeys they make I suspect that the vast majority of drivers don’t need anywhere near the range of a current petrol or diesel car. This doesn’t help the 1% of drivers that do but we can’t let them dictate what happens in the future.
User avatar
Woodster
Sapling
 
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 16:43

A fair point but I think you are ignoring the psychology. If it was questionable whether or not you would be able to easily charge up your car whenever you wanted to then you would want a reserve of charge in your battery. That after all is what this is about. Having a big battery gives you that 'comfort factor'.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5544
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Please God. Make it stop raining.
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Tusses » 10 Jun 2018, 19:17

I still don't get why EV bodies are not made from PV panels ? surly every little helps ?

anyway .. as a classic car fan , I'm worried about the possible ban of petrol and diesel from the roads.
One of my business plans is to restore and cater for classic cars .. but for several years now I've been putting this further back on the plausible list with fears of it's longevity ??
Tusses
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: 08 May 2016, 10:48
Location: in the middle of the middle
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Tusses » 10 Jun 2018, 19:19

as to charging EV's .. will diesel gennies be banned too ? :lol:
Tusses
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: 08 May 2016, 10:48
Location: in the middle of the middle
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 10 Jun 2018, 19:39

I often do a trip to Yorkshire and need a range of about 250 miles.
A reviewer of the new Jag Ipace (it has a range of 230) reckons folks would run two cars, an electric for local journeys and a conventional engine for long journeys.
The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3781
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jun 2018, 21:25

There’s no way I’d get from Devon to Aberdeen to visit family this week efficiently if I didn’t have diesel car that routinely does 60mpg!

A very interesting tv programme showing just how much the world relies on the Diesel engine is accessible from this website.

https://www.markevans.co.uk/television/the-engine-that-powers-the-world/
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2706
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 28 Jun 2018, 14:17

On the news today. BP Goes Electric.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44640647

There were two interesting points mentioned on the BBC news this lunchtime. The first was that about half of forecourt income are “non fuel” sales which surprised me. I also didn’t know that BP rebranded some years ago as “Beyond Petroleum” :D
User avatar
Woodster
Sapling
 
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodbloke » 28 Jun 2018, 20:42

Rod wrote:The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

Rod

I suspect this is perhaps the biggest area of angst with the current range of electrickeral batteries. I've no doubt that the 'boffins' are burning the midnight oil (what's left of it :D) to produce a much more efficient battery. When it does happen, you can wave 'adios' to the suck, squeeze, bang, blow ic motor...that though does leave the unanswered question of diesel engines as used in heavy lorries and the like. What's going to happen to them in the future? - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name: Rob Stoakley

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby 9fingers » 28 Jun 2018, 20:56

Woodbloke wrote:
Rod wrote:The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

Rod

though does leave the unanswered question of diesel engines as used in heavy lorries and the like. What's going to happen to them in the future? - Rob


Exackerly Rob. I just cant see an electric 44 tonner unless it has 20 tonnes of batteries and only 24t payload.

Bob
Image
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4632
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Mike G » 28 Jun 2018, 21:14

And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station. Unless we can magic up a 30 or 40% increase in electric supply (and remember how close we came in the winter to having outages?), a wholesale changeover to electric vehicles is not on the cards.
User avatar
Mike G
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3701
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby stu » 28 Jun 2018, 21:21

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station. Unless we can magic up a 30 or 40% increase in electric supply (and remember how close we came in the winter to having outages?), a wholesale changeover to electric vehicles is not on the cards.
It must be easier to deal with a single emissions point than hundreds of thousand of them driving around the country?

Isn't graphene supposed to be the answer to the batteries when they can sort out production?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
stu
New Shoots
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 06:58
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 28 Jun 2018, 22:49

At the moment the total energy production and pollutant “cost” for the electric cars are greater than those for petrol vehicles.

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3781
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Phil » 29 Jun 2018, 07:06

Interesting topic.

What are the motor vehicles suppliers going to do in places like Africa where a huge portion of the population don’t even have power in their houses, let alone in the remote rural areas?

"You want to charge your what?!"

Then in RSA we sit with the power utility (monopoly) who gave us rolling blackouts the other day? And not many years ago daily blackouts?
How do you keep your ‘leccy’ car running?
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 29 Jun 2018, 09:11

A few years ago I was working on a major highway scheme in Accra, Ghana. The construction of a 3 lane dual carriageway with a central light railway running through the centre of the town.
The Ghanaians import “MOT” failures from Europe so the heavily congested roads are full of stationary vehicles kicking out noxious fumes.
The environmentally friendly railway part was scrapped due to cost but I suppose they will have an even bigger supply of scrapped cars available when our scapaged systems come into play.

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3781
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 30 Jun 2018, 10:43

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station.


Emissions? From nuclear? And what about wind and solar? Even gas powered stations likely only give off CO2 not the filthy particulates from Diesel cars. There are new technologies coming out all the time not just for production but also storage.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGsbq6QnnU
User avatar
Woodster
Sapling
 
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby selectortone » 30 Jun 2018, 10:55

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station.


Power station cooling towers emit water vapour.
User avatar
selectortone
New Shoots
 
Posts: 223
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 23:43
Location: Sunny Bournemouth by the Sea
Name: Terry

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby stu » 30 Jun 2018, 10:58

Phil wrote:Interesting topic.

What are the motor vehicles suppliers going to do in places like Africa where a huge portion of the population don’t even have power in their houses, let alone in the remote rural areas?

"You want to charge your what?!"

Then in RSA we sit with the power utility (monopoly) who gave us rolling blackouts the other day? And not many years ago daily blackouts?
How do you keep your ‘leccy’ car running?
Maybe you review your usage?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
stu
New Shoots
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 06:58
Name:

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Andyp » 30 Jun 2018, 19:26

I do wonder if there has already been too much investment in lecky cars to reverse the decision. Personally I would like to see more done with hydrogen or other fuels.
cheers

Andy

if images are not visible on my posts it is because Photobucket withdrew their free hosting service. I will reload images to the most recent threads in due course. Please drop me a PM if you would like to see anything before then
User avatar
Andyp
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5220
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodbloke » 01 Jul 2018, 10:01

Andyp wrote:I do wonder if there has already been too much investment in lecky cars to reverse the decision.

A huge problem with eleckriceral cars is also that they produce no noise what so ever; even at slow speeds there's no tyre noise so you can't hear the things coming. I was in Waitrose car park the other day and nearly got mown down by a yummy mummy in some Toyboata thingie as I just didn't hear it :evil:

The lugs is fine btw before Trim or anyone else cracks the obvious gag :D - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name: Rob Stoakley

Re: Diesel Ban

Postby 9fingers » 01 Jul 2018, 10:10

I heard something on the wireless a few month back suggesting that manufacturers were considering some synthetic brrm brrm sound effects to reduce this problem.

Bob
Image
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4632
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Next

Return to The Woodmangler's Retreat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests