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Two special Anniversaries.

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Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Pinch » 30 Sep 2014, 19:17

I thought I'd start a new thread as Andyp and me have exchanged a few PM's. Cheers Andy - diamond geezer! 8-)

As we probably all know, this year is the 70th anniversary of the D-Day Landings and the 100th anniversary of the start of WW1.

Susan (Mrs P) and me are planning a trip to France next year (June/July) after experiencing one day on The Somme earlier this year. Although Sue has been there before, it was my first time. I don't know the word(s) to describe the feeling I experienced when I was there, but I said very little. I've always been interested and felt a great respect to all those who were involved in both World Wars, possibly more WW2 and especially D-Day. But as we approached the 100th anniversary of WW1 last year, I started to show a bigger interest and have since watched many documentaries and of course, a brief visit to The Somme this year. I've also learnt that Sue's great uncle (her mother's mother's brother) was killed in action during the Battle of The Somme - September 1916. His name is one of the names inscribed into the majestic Thiepval Memorial - just one of 72,195 missing. Or rather, unrecognisable due to probably being blown apart on 'No Man's Land'.

This has inspired us both so much that we're going back next year and during the same trip, we're going to explore Normandy Beaches as well.

I've also recently learned my great grandfather (on mother's side) was involved in Gallipoli's campaign and I'm still trying to find out whether he was moved onto The Somme as well. I read parts of the regiment (still learning the terminology of the British Army) were transferred to France before The Battle(s) of The Somme began. He did however survive the war - I wouldn't be here if he didn't.

Plus, my grandfather (on father's side) joined up in 1940 and after serving 3 commando raids (one in Norway), he received his commission and was then sent to Europe (not sure for how long or where), but after this, he was then sent to India and was killed in action in Burma 7th April 1944. I now have some of the letters he wrote to his brother during his time in Burma (my great uncle Joseph who I remember pretty well) and they're very moving and I feel very proud. Reading the letter the C/O sent to my grandmother after grandfather was killed is also quite something.

Anyway, point of this thread... Well, I expect we all have a relative who had an involvement in either wars. So let's share some stories...

By the way, when I was breaking my soul on that recent (blasphemy blasphemy) stair project, there were a couple of times when I reminded myself of what these guys went through to give us our today - making me feel so futile to be moaning about a difficult project. No comparison whatsoever.

It's very sad for all those who perished and sad for those who survived and had to return back to society with such demons in their souls and minds.

I raise my glass!!

Cheers,
8-)
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Andyp » 30 Sep 2014, 20:28

Great idea for a thread Paul,

Here are a few details of some or or relatives who fought in WW1

A great uncle a Driver in the 37th Reserve Army Service Corps died aged 22 on 6th Nov 1916 buried in the CWGC Salonika

A great uncle who before the war, served 12 years in the Navy before going back to civilian life. He was recalled into the Navy in March 1917 when he was 36 years old. He first sailed on HMS Euryalus during the Arab revolts in the Red Sea between July and October 1917. He then fought on board HMS Venus, based in the East Indies. He sailed in the Indian Ocean, pursuing the German cruiser SMS Wolf, which was sinking a lot of Allied boats at the time. Ernest stayed on HMS Venus until June 1919.

A great grandfather was 38 when he was called to join the 4th Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment at the end of 1916. He sailed to France on the 30th December 1916 leaving behind his wife and 5 children. In April 1917 he transferred to the 7th Battalion, which were fighting around the French town of Arras. Shortly after, he suffered a head wound and was repatriated. He had a metal plate put in his head and never fully recovered all his faculties. After the war, he became a postman.

My wife's grandfather was only 16 when war broke out. He was too young to fight. He joined the 5th Infantry Regiment in May 1917. He moved to the 11th Company of the 153rd Infantry Regiment and was wounded in June 1918. He was about to go back to the front line when the armistice was signed.

My wife's great grandfather was called as soon as war broke out in August 1914 and was not able to attend his daughter’s 8th birthday. He fought all through the war in Belgium, in the Vosges and in the East of France with the 81st Territorial Regiment. He was given the French military honour “Croix de Guerre” for acts of bravery. He only came home in February 1919.

As a picture paints a thousand words I'd hope you don't mind if I post a couple. The photo is of my daughter and some of her class who, with about 6 other local schools, laid a single flower on each grave in one of the many local cemeteries (BANNEVILLE-LA-CAMPAGNE) back in June. The sentiment on the T-shirt applies to us all. Brought tears to my eyes.

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cheers
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 30 Sep 2014, 21:37

My family's involvement inn WWI limited due to the short American involvement in the war. The only thing I know for sure was a great-great-uncle's death from the Spanish flu pandemic in 1918 before he was sent overseas.

WWII was a different story. My grandfather worked for Lockeed, and was part of a civilian team that set up a logistics base in Accra, Ghana (formerly the Gold Coast), I believe before Pearl Harbor. This base was used to fly aircraft from the US, through the Caribbean, to South America, then west Africa, then up to Egypt. Working for Lockeed he was undraftable until late in the war, when he became available and was trained as a military policeman and sent to Italy. While there he probably chased my father-in-law, who was a pilot for the 79th Fighter Group and was heavily involved in smuggling when he wasn't flying fighter-bomber missions.:) After the war my grandfather worked for Northrup, where he advanced from being a quality control inspector to a vice president in charge of quality control while working on such projects as the B-49 Flying Wing and the Apollo command modules.

My great uncle got into the Marines during the 1930's when he was only 15. A year later the Marines found out his age and kicked him out.:) Later, when he was old enough (~1940) he joined the Navy, and was on a ship off Guadalcanal when it was sunk very early in the campaign. When they brought him to shore, they found out he'd been in the Marines so they transferred him back as a replacement infantryman in the 1st Raider Battalion. This was in time to take part on the Battle of Edson's Ridge, some of the heaviest fighting in the campaign. After Guadalcanal, he was sent to be a drill sergeant in the Panama Canal Zone. Later in the war (~1945), he was back on a ship when he was badly injured in a turret explosion, and was blinded for about two years. Only one other man survived the explosion, and he died a few days later. After healing up, my uncle got out and became a butcher, running the meat counter for several grocery stores in Los Angeles. He is still alive and in reasonably good health at 92. I don't know the names of the ships he was on because he mostly won't talk about his service, but I've pieced together the above from his few comments and from conversations with my grandmother and my aunt.

Edit: I forgot my other great uncle, this on on my dad's side. He got into WWII very late as an infantryman, but I don't know if he saw combat. After the war, he went to West Point and selected the USAF after graduation. He became a lawyer in the judge advocate general's office for a while, then was transferred to teach law at the Air Force Academy. He was there for over 20 years, finally retiring in 1990 as a brigadier general, the last active duty World War II service member in the USAF.

Kirk
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Woodbloke » 30 Sep 2014, 21:43

My grandad on my father's side went over as part of the BEF as boy soldier in the Gordon Highlanders in 1914 and had both feet blown off during the retreat from Mons. My other grandad went over to fight the Nazis on D+2 and survived unscathed throughout the rest of the war…surprisingly he said very little about the conflict except to comment on the amount of loot that the Allies liberated from Nazi Germany (of which I still have a small part) - Rob
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Rod » 30 Sep 2014, 22:09

I'm giving away my age, but I'm a WWII baby and can remember the bomb devastation around the immediate area where I lived. Bombed out factories that we used to play in and missing houses opposite ours who had received direct hits.
Our house suffered only a cracked window. The coal cellar in the basement had been "reinforced" with corrugated iron to make a bomb shelter though I cannot imagine that it would have helped much?
The local school had all the iron railings removed from the perimeter fence but not the section separating the boys and girls school - Victorian attitudes!

My maternal Grandfather was in a reserved occupation during WWI, working at the Barnbow Munitions factory in Leeds as a machinist.
My paternal GF was seeking his fortune in Chile in what was to become the worlds biggest copper mine at Chuquicamata. My father was born there but sadly my GF was killed in a mining accident in 1918. My Grandmother and father came back to blighty that year by steam ship avoiding the U-boat threat.

In WWII my father was Ground Crew in the RAF, firstly with Bomber Command then with the Air Sea Rescue at Calshot on the south coast. He was due to be sent out to India (to fight the Japanese) but was involved as a witness in a Court Martial case and had to stay behind.
Towards the end of the war he was transferred to the Avro Works at Yeadon (now Leeds/Bradford Airport) making Lancaster Bombers. He was never officially demobbed.
My Mum worked in a factory painting Fire Engines.
My Uncle was in the Army but attached to the Merchant Navy as a Gunner - no actual action but he saw a lot of the world.
Nothing really heroic or glamorous but they must have thought they'd played a part in the war effort? It must have been scary times?
They all lost lots of friends and regarded themselves as being very lucky.

My wife's father was a Pharmacist in the Medical Corp attached to the 79th Armoured Division who fought from DDay to the fall of Germany. He never spoke of his experiences ever.

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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby chataigner » 01 Oct 2014, 08:46

Not a big family mine ! I'm an only child and so were my parents, but a bit of history despite the small numbers.

My maternal grandfather was infantry on the Somme and was gassed for his trouble - his eyesight was never good after and he became fully blind at around 50.

My mother married a dutch naval officer in 1936 and went to live in the Netherlands. When the Nazis arrived both became involved in the resistance. Her husband (not my father) was caught and spent three years in Buchenwald, he survived, but said that the fight for survival had a terrible moral price and he was never the same person after. My mother remained active in the resistance, and while she would never speak of it, I heard some pretty hair raising stories from people she knew at the time. They divorced in 1946 not long after he returned and she met my father soon after. They did not stay together very long, just long enough to produce me in late 1947.

My father's second wife (who I absolutely adored) was jewish and had lost most of her family during the occupation of the Netherlands. My two sort of half brothers (father's second wife - her first husband, so not strictly related at all) were jewish kids during the war and had to be hidden. Not quite Anne Frank but close.

While on the subject of family, I knew my paternal grandfather when I was little. So what you say ? Well he was born in 1860. When I was 5, in 1952, he was 92 and we chatted often. So I knew someone born over 150 yrs ago !
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby chataigner » 01 Oct 2014, 18:53

So busy recounting my family history that I didnt respond to the start of the thread or to Andy's photos. Sorry.

Wonderful to see your daughter and class involved in a ceremony to honour the war veterans and fallen. It does not do to dwell too much on the bad bits of history, but neither should we forget them and the lessons learned.
Cheers !
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby RogerS » 01 Oct 2014, 19:13

My grandfather was in the First World War but never talked about it. He had constant tremors in his hands from the constant shelling.

My father was in the UK manning anti-aircraft batteries and then shortly after D-Day doing the same on the floating Mulberry Harbour. It was in a displaced persons camp that he met my mother, who along with her immediate family had been moved by the Germans from Ukraine where her father was a precision engineer. He worked for a very reasonable German boss who ensured that the whole family were withdrawn as the Soviets advanced.

Now for the bit many people haven't heard about. As the dust started to settle after the Germans surrendered, the Soviets started to make noises to the other Allies about the forced repatriation of Soviet prisoners of war, displaced persons, refugees etc. Many were destined for gulags and camps inside Russia for dissent and other reasons. To their dying shame, even though they were aware of this, the UK and US leaders went along with this even though thousands of refugees wished to stay outside the USSR. At this time, my mother was billeted in a German house and they got tipped off that the Russians were coming that evening to forcibly remove my mother and her family back to the USSR. They spent the night hiding in the forest and managed to escape the next day.
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Pinch » 02 Oct 2014, 08:35

Thanks to all who have responded by sharing these interesting stories, and those T shirts are wonderful Andy. It's good to teach our children and bring their awareness to the recent past and how today's life could have been so very different.

I have more to share and have been busy on the internet during the last couple of days - I ought to get on with some work really. :eusa-think:

I'm going to post up some pictures too - my great grandfather and grandfather with some artifacts. I shall have some questions as well as I'm learning more and more about the British Army's structure - quite something.

It's difficult to trace my family on father's side because of their Russian/Polish backgrounds, but father and father's cousin (who apparently worked for the BBC many years ago) managed to go back to 1836 with photos dating back to the 1850's - most of it abroad. But, on mother's side, I stumbled across a page with her family dating back 300 years - fairly local to where I'm living today. I know this is off topic, but I couldn't believe stumbling across this info. Someone has obviously put in lots of hard work to bring this info together.

Keep the stories coming with pictures, artifacts, whatever...

8-)
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Re: Two special Anniversaries.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 02 Oct 2014, 13:50

Pinch wrote:...
It's difficult to trace my family on father's side because of their Russian/Polish backgrounds, but father and father's cousin (who apparently worked for the BBC many years ago) managed to go back to 1836 with photos dating back to the 1850's - most of it abroad. But, on mother's side, I stumbled across a page with her family dating back 300 years - fairly local to where I'm living today. I know this is off topic, but I couldn't believe stumbling across this info. Someone has obviously put in lots of hard work to bring this info together.

Keep the stories coming with pictures, artifacts, whatever...

8-)


Some people really get into the genealogy stuff, and it's much easier with the computer resources now available. My aunt has traced a branch of my family back to at least the 1780's in Germany, and one of my great-great-grandfathers came over here from England in 1859--and I have his toolbox and a number of his hand tools (gouges, chisels, a spokeshave, and some other stuff).

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Two special Anniversaries.

Postby Rod » 02 Oct 2014, 19:16

I started looking into my ancestors back in 1967, the year my maternal Grandmother died aged 97, I realised too late that we had lost a treasure trove of memories and information.
Back in those days it was down to Parish Records, some still held in the local churches but some by the Local Authority's museum or records Dept. Census returns were held on Microfiches at local records offices.
Not an easy task when I lived 250 miles away.
The Mormons were compiling records but you had to visit their churches to access them. Official records from Somerset House/ St Catherine's? by mail order.

I managed to track my paternal side to Mark & Elizabeth, born 1790 who farmed in a small West Riding village - Gawthorpe which in 1866 became Ossett-cum-Gawthorpe.
The lane is still there but the farm buildings are now under the local high school. Elizabeth took over the farm when Mark died and their children had occupations such as Blacksmiths and Carters.
Years later I stumbled across an article by an unknown and very distant relative, who had done even more research into my ancestors.
He also found a great deal of stuff prior to 1790 but very little real evidence as records of that period are very scarce to locate?
The earliest record of my surname is another Elizabeth in 1450.

Tithe map of 1848 and OS Map of 1850

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Rod

PS. in the village name, the Forum software replaced CHARLIE UTAH MIKE with a *
* is not really a naughty word - probably Viking?
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