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Derailed - A Flag Case thread

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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 13:41

Thanks for that info Bob. The triangular method of folding the US flag places the hoist (the edge with the grommets) so it is easily accessible for attaching to the flag halyard. The folded flag can then be hoisted smartly so it isn't allowed to touch the ground. Of course when the flag is retired for the day, it is supposed to folded that way. It's difficult to do single handedly, though.

I don't think folding your flag that way would show it to its best advantage.
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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Mike G » 02 Oct 2014, 14:07

Dave R wrote:........Do you folks have a "correct" way of folding your flag and are display cases made for them?...........


We in Britain clearly have an entirely different flag culture to the USA. Virtually nobody owns a flag, virtually everyone would be embarrassed to display a flag, on a pole or in a case, and most people consider displays of flags to be a negative rather than a positive. I abhor the damn things.
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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 14:17

Interesting. I wonder how we developed the traditions we have for the US flag. At my father's funeral, his coffin was draped with an American flag because he had been in the US Army. Near the end of the service, some retired service men (who, ironically, were considerably older than my father) marched in, removed the flag from the coffin, ceremoniously folded it and presented it to me as number one son. Then they marched outside played taps on a bugle and fired a 21-gun salute. Their last act was to present me with the spent shells from the salute.

So I ended up with a flag and a bunch of brass. I have yet to build a case for the flag but I ended up having some of the brass incorporated into pens for my siblings.
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Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 14:39

Interesting you say that Mike, I agree that in the UK most, or a lot, of people consider it to be pompous or jingoistic to fly a flag.

Personally, it's only the views of others that stop me from flying one. That and it's so windy here the noise would keep me awake at night! :)

I think we Brits have become far too apologist for the days of The Empire and the negatives that came with it and have gone too far the other way and see it as a negative to be proud of our nation.

A balance somewhere back towards the middle would be nice IMO.

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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Mike G » 02 Oct 2014, 16:05

TrimTheKing wrote:.......I think we Brits have become far too apologist for the days of The Empire and the negatives that came with it and have gone too far the other way and see it as a negative to be proud of our nation........


It's nothing to do with that for me, Mark. I'm proud of the fact that our country, or at least the populace, doesn't do the flag-waving jingoistic thing.

No, for me, it's evidence based. Look around the world through the last century and this, and the correlation between flag-flying and countries which have caused the most damage, involved themselves in the most ridiculous ideologies, suppressed their own people and so on is stark. Picture Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, Vietnam-war-mongering USA, China, North Korea, and every little despotic dictator in Africa or Central & Southern America, and they were/are all mighty flag wavers.

It is terribly easy to get the populace to feel affronted by some perceived slight by a neighbouring country if you can get them all thinking that the place they live is the best and only right-thinking place on the planet, and one of the standard ways of getting people to think like that is to get them to venerate symbols of the country such as flags or Presidents from a very early age. I'm proud of the fact that we do neither. I suspect we only support the monarchy because deep down we know that the institution is an anachronistic un-democratic joke, but that it saves us from having a president. President Blair, anyone?
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Re: A Flag Case

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 16:08

Can't argue with those points Mike, fair comment.

I will say though, just because that's the way it's been, doesn't mean it has to be so. We are after all, the generation of change…

:P

Now where's my Union Jack top hat…

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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 16:09

Well, I certainly had no intention of this thread taking the turn it has. Perhaps it would have been better not to start it in the first place. Maybe a Moderator type should delete the whole damn thing.
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Re: A Flag Case

Postby 9fingers » 02 Oct 2014, 16:13

Dave R wrote:Well, I certainly had no intention of this thread taking the turn it has. Perhaps it would have been better not to start it in the first place. Maybe a Moderator type should delete the whole damn thing.


I don't think you need to worry Dave, it won't be first time a tread has gone off in a different direction than the OP intended but I could move it to the Woodmanglers Arms if you would prefer?

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Re: A Flag Case

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 16:50

Why don't we take the OT posts out into a new thread and leave Dave's derailed (sorry Dave, not intentional but also its very tongue in cheek, nothing to get concerned with) thread intact?

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Re: A Flag Case

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 17:08

I really don't care one way or the other. I just want it clear that I didn't intend to start a political or divisive topic.
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 17:23

Hi Dave

I've split the derailed posts off into a different thread, and I don't think for one second that you intended anything other than your original post. Apologies if mine and Mike's comments have caused upset, that wasn't the intention.

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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 17:36

Thanks Mark. I wasn't upset. I just didn't want this to turn into a knock down, drag out Besides, the knock down, drag outs should be reserved for things like pins first or tails first or who makes the best beer. :D
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 17:37

:D

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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Mike G » 02 Oct 2014, 17:58

Yep. Apologies. I clearly headed the previous thread off in the wrong direction.
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby RogerS » 02 Oct 2014, 18:53

Teach me to go down to the pub! This thread has me confused as it seems to have jumped in part way through!
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Dave R » 02 Oct 2014, 18:54

RogerS wrote:Teach me to go down to the pub! This thread has me confused as it seems to have jumped in part way through!


Nah. You probably should have stayed at the pub, though. :D :lol:
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 19:48

I split off the offending posts Roger. The original thread is still on the sketchup board.

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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby 9fingers » 02 Oct 2014, 20:21

TrimTheKing wrote:I split off the offending posts Roger. The original thread is still on the sketchup board.

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It really needed the one more post to have moved over to make sense.

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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Oct 2014, 21:21

9fingers wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:I split off the offending posts Roger. The original thread is still on the sketchup board.

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It really needed the one more post to have moved over to make sense.

Bob


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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TheTiddles » 02 Oct 2014, 23:46

Well seeing as we are well and truly off-course and now in the right place for it...

Isn't the old adage that the weaker the idea, the more stringently it must be reinforced? Hence why every day children in North Korea must swear allegiance to the leader and making jokes about the regime will get you imprisoned as that quick giggle might be enough for people to realise how laughable the entire setup is and demand that an entire country living just above starvation (or below, depending on how much foreign aid they're getting) isn't really acceptable, especially when the leaders live in luxury and spend the people's GDP developing weapons of mass destruction when they should be buying food. I get why the regime does that there... I don't get why some other countries do similar things.

Still, we're all different and that's not always a bad thing.

Aidan

Ps. A Union Flag is only a "Jack" when you fly it on a jack-staff, I haven't got a ship so I'll have to use a Union Flag. Not that I would, that sort of thing is reserved for civic buildings and the same sort of person who uses those red and white flags that shut in the windows of a car to indicate they're bad drivers.
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Andyp » 03 Oct 2014, 10:01

At the risk of delving still deeper into politics I do not think that presidential democracies are the perfect solution either. France, as an example - the USA too for that matter, are often politically moribund due to the president and governmental assemblies being on opposite sides. At least in the UK things, for better or worse, can get done.

As for flag waving. In the Netherlands rather than wave a national flag they seem to celebrate their identity by waving anything in the national colour - orange. Unique in my experience that a colour, not seen on the national flag, can be used in this way.
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Woodbloke » 03 Oct 2014, 10:55

Flag waving is an interesting topic and one that's intrigued me for a while. In my one and only visit to the US it appeared to me that many Americans celebrated their patriotism with a display of the stars and stripes, whereas in the UK it's simply not 'good form' to do the same.
Instead, my own view is that we celebrate our nationality to a much greater degree through our unique Royal Family. Whether or not you are a supporter of Royalty is a moot point (I am) and discussions for and against may take the thread way OT, which is probably not desirable - Rob
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 03 Oct 2014, 11:10

Personally I don't see a problem with people discussing their views openly and honestly, so long as it doesn't become personal when people disagree, which they will, because that's life and makes it interesting :)

Personally I understand the arguments for and against the Monarchy, but I am a big fan. Say what you like, the HM Queen never stops in her work to promote Britain in every area of World society. Yes she costs a lot, but our history of Monarchy, as well documented as it is, is what makes us unique in the World and is something I am personally proud of.

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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby Andyp » 03 Oct 2014, 11:16

TrimTheKing wrote: Yes she costs a lot, Mark


And therein lies the problem, in the eyes of so many people. The costs are visible but the benefits are harder to quantify.
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Re: Derailed - A Flag Case thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 03 Oct 2014, 12:01

They are harder to quantify Andy, but they are definitely tangible. Tourism brings in billion$ to our economy and having spoken with many tourists, particularly US and Japanese, to understand what the draw to the UK is for them, the single key narrative from them all is the Royal family and to see Buckingham Palace.

I wouldn't be surprised if their mere existence more than pays for itself 5 or 10 times over in tourist $$. But quite understandably, unless that can be put down in B&W, which it can't, then there will always be debate and disagreement.

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