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Network Attached Storage NAS

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Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2014, 14:02

Apart from know what the the name means, I've not kept up with what is available so a mystery as to what to look out for.

Scene setting.
I am mildly luddite and run a basic XP network at home with 3 PCs currently with a 4th planned for CNC machining one day.
I cannot foresee any OS change in a long time.
I don't anticipate any need for apple compatibility.
I have zero interest in storing music or video and so the data capacity for the NAS is low in modern terms as data I store will have been mainly created by myself.
I do however want the backup features that I think (hope!) NAS will give me.
I do not trust any external cloud service and require to be fully functional without an internet connection.
I want the unit to be quiet, low power and be able to support 3.5,2.5" HDD and SSD. The latter seems to be the way to go especially as my storage requirements are modest.
It needs to plug into a single Ethernet port on my router - 10/100 is more than enough - I assume they all do this?

Are all such devices born equal? Over the years I've had least trouble with Netgear networking products and support tends to be good. As a result I often buy 2nd hand Netgear products.
Netgear offer the ReadyNAS range.
Has anyone experience of these good/bad/indifferent?

I throw myself open to your mercy......

TIA

Bob
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby old » 07 Oct 2014, 16:10

Look up raid its the way it stores on multiple discs and the security of data if a disc or discs fail this will size the nas and find type of raid you need there are lots to buy if you get discs and fit them its less expensive.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=46&catid=2125
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Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby TrimTheKing » 07 Oct 2014, 16:47

Bob, I have done a lot in this area recently. I use a Synology, have a look at them and see what you think.

They have a lot of options and give you the choice to use as a standard RAID NAS and then you can play with the other services, which are all available, at your leisure or not at all.

Everything is controlled from a browser GUI and each 'App' is installed manually as and when you want them (or not at all).

Connects at 10/100/1000. Also has 'private cloud' which is effectively secure remote access allowing you to access your resources from wherever you want (or not ;) ).

Happy to have a chat if you want any more specifics. Fingers are tired now so that's enough typing for me for now.

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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby Robert » 07 Oct 2014, 20:24

Probably no surprise that I'd recommend a HP microserver for about £120.

put in as many or few disks as you like and either run windows home server (around £35) or one of many freeware NAS programs. The beauty of windows home server is that it gives you shared folders for storage and will automatically back up any windows (or apple) PCs that can connect to it.

My server runs at under 20 Watts so not power hungry.

I'm very wary of any raid system as the only time I ever lost data it was to raided disks. The disks run with a proprietary format. you can't just take a healthy disk out and get data off it. If a drive fails then sure enough with some raid systems you can plug another drive in and it will rebuild the disk back to how it was.

if as in my case the raid controller fails, it possibly screws up all the drives but there is no way to find out unless you buy a new identical controller and plug the drives in to it. Nothing can be read from a single drive from a raid set.

Raid is not a backup in itself. The raid array should be thought of as a single copy of your data. that single copy needs a backup.
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2014, 20:44

Robert wrote:Probably no surprise that I'd recommend a HP microserver for about £120.

put in as many or few disks as you like and either run windows home server (around £35) or one of many freeware NAS programs. The beauty of windows home server is that it gives you shared folders for storage and will automatically back up any windows (or apple) PCs that can connect to it.

My server runs at under 20 Watts so not power hungry.

I'm very wary of any raid system as the only time I ever lost data it was to raided disks. The disks run with a proprietary format. you can't just take a healthy disk out and get data off it. If a drive fails then sure enough with some raid systems you can plug another drive in and it will rebuild the disk back to how it was.

if as in my case the raid controller fails, it possibly screws up all the drives but there is no way to find out unless you buy a new identical controller and plug the drives in to it. Nothing can be read from a single drive from a raid set.

Raid is not a backup in itself. The raid array should be thought of as a single copy of your data. that single copy needs a backup.


Thanks Robert,

I was initially confusing it with your Intel NUC but now I've dug out the old post and your server comments there it is clearer.

Bob
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby DaveL » 07 Oct 2014, 21:45

Robert wrote:Raid is not a backup in itself. The raid array should be thought of as a single copy of your data. that single copy needs a backup.

Quite right, I remember when CDs where first used for data, the only way to have a hard disk big enough to hold that amount of data was to RAID a number of SCSI drives together.
RAID systems are used to provide large drives even today, I have helped install a server that had 20 * 2TB drives in a complex RAID, this was still backed up to a tape library system. The need to restore should if the support team are on the ball should never happen, but its still there as a back stop.
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby justaskin » 08 Oct 2014, 07:34

Hi Bob
I use a 2TB NAS Qnap set up in raid 0 mode on wifi, leaving it switched off when not required. But for shear backup speed I have a 3TB WD hard book connected by USB3 in time capsule mode connected to the computer. This is considerably cheaper and faster that a profesional NAS machine for every day work.
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby RogerS » 08 Oct 2014, 10:59

Robert, what do you use to backup your NAS server?

Bob, don't dismiss RAID out of hand. If RAID was as bad as some would suggest then there are a hell of a lot of data centres around the world living on borrowed time!
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby 9fingers » 08 Oct 2014, 11:55

RogerS wrote:
Bob, don't dismiss RAID out of hand. If RAID was as bad as some would suggest then there are a hell of a lot of data centres around the world living on borrowed time!


I possibly don't need the level of protection offered by RAID. I currently back up once in a blue moon when I remember and that has been OK to date so having a simple one drive back up puts me streets ahead.
I'd need a double failure before I was in any trouble. I also want to stay away from proprietary formats on principle.
My main requirement is to have an 'always on' disc that I can access from any machine on my network.
eg do a design on a destop machine in the house, titivate it on a lappy whilst being partially sociable with SWMBO in front of the tv and bring it up on screen in the relevant workshop to cut wood/metal or solder wires.

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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 Oct 2014, 12:03

RAID is an industry standard defined in numerous RFC's and is not inherently dangerous. What IS dangerous is choosing the wrong RAID type for your purposes…

I guess a lot of this comes down to risk aversely and from comments on here it looks like I am a little more relaxed on that scale than Robert. Not to say you are wrong Robert, but my RAID setup of 2 x 3TB drives in an enclosure using drive mirroring is, I would argue, as safe as your server based method.

It would take a simultaneous dual drive failure for me to lose my data (okay you might be more resilient in that case but if it was a power spike then we might both be fecked). If it was stolen then we are both screwed. Water damage likewise.

RAID is in itself not a backup, but it does have resilience so effectively I have two copies of my identical data sitting in the same physical box. Not sure how that differs to your server other than the OS being Synology's proprietary one and yours being windows.

Your point about backing up the RAID array to another device, preferably offsite though is absolutely bang on the money, and something in which I am currently sadly lacking…

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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby RogerS » 08 Oct 2014, 12:56

Digressing every so slightly, the concept of offsite backup reminded me of when I looked at disaster recovery and business continuity for the Immigration Fingerprint system at the Home Office. One of the sites was Gatwick and the resilience was between North and South terminals. I somewhat naively asked 'Ah but what if you had a situation where both North and South were out of action?' to which the reply was 'If both North and South terminals were faced with a situation where both were out of action then I doubt very much if any planes would be landing'.
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby Robert » 08 Oct 2014, 18:21

RogerS wrote:Robert, what do you use to backup your NAS server?


USB3 4TB plug in drives. 2 of them. The server is currently at around 3TB so it will all back up to one drive. When something significant gets added like new pictures or something the backup is done again and swapped with the other drive at my daughters place.

TrimTheKing wrote:I guess a lot of this comes down to risk aversely and from comments on here it looks like I am a little more relaxed on that scale than Robert. Not to say you are wrong Robert, but my RAID setup of 2 x 3TB drives in an enclosure using drive mirroring is, I would argue, as safe as your server based method.

It would take a simultaneous dual drive failure for me to lose my data <snip>

Your point about backing up the RAID array to another device, preferably offsite though is absolutely bang on the money, and something in which I am currently sadly lacking…

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What if like the NAS I used to have, the controller fails not the drives... How do you get the data off the drives then?

Next time the 4TB usb drives are around £80 on Amazon again I'll post here to let you know :)
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Re: Network Attached Storage NAS

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 Oct 2014, 18:25

Robert wrote:What if like the NAS I used to have, the controller fails not the drives... How do you get the data off the drives then?

Next time the 4TB usb drives are around £80 on Amazon again I'll post here to let you know :)

Then i guess I would contact the vendor to get a replacement controller in the same way you would have to replace the controller if one failed on the actual HD or on the MoBo which I've also had happen.

I think you've been tainted by a single failure as yo said. If that had been a WD HD board that had lost you your data would you then write off all WD Hd's?

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