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Hand tool room within a room?

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Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 17 Jan 2024, 17:46

Yes I’m a bit bored, it’s too cold to go into the wonderfully large garage workshop, I’m told it’s insulated but it has 14’ ceilings and it’s impractical to try and heat (or cool) it.
As mentioned elsewhere the floor slopes and is concrete. Did I say I was bored? This got me thinking of a small well insulated space just for a bench In which to work only using hand tools. Pop outside to the bigger area to use equipment, then back into the warm.
Your thoughts please, and point out faults as well. My thoughts in no particular order.
1, This area wouldn’t need to be very large, central freestanding bench plus 4’ all round? Tool cupboard on the wall. No doubt need a table type thing for parts and bits and bobs.
2, Doesn’t need to be weatherproof or secure.
3, I’m thinking a levelled up wooden floor, then Kingspan (how thick?) walls and ceiling held together with a lightweight timber frame, timber doorframe and door.
4, This room within a room built in a corner to utilise the existing power points for lights and radio small heater etc.
5, Would the foil finish on the walls and ceiling be good for reflecting light or strangely annoying?
6, Another thought is a timber shed built inside out so that it’s shiplap inside and insulation between the uprights on the outside. Must say I can’t see many benefits to just Kingspan though.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby AndyT » 17 Jan 2024, 18:53

Keep it simple. Why build a special demi-room when you could just use the whole space? What would you do with the bit left over?

I used to be a lodger with a friend who's now a professional sculptor. He didn't want a formal dining room so he just built a bit of a bench, installed his bandsaw and drawing board and got on with making stuff. (A wooden water clock was a highlight.)

There wasn't any mess spreading to the rest of the house. The carpet helped keep it in the room until we hoovered it up.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 17 Jan 2024, 19:02

Well Andy the thing is that the big room is too large to heat/cool for 8 months of the year. So I would use the rest of the space for the tablesaw planer thicknesser etc, but I need somewhere to work for the majority of the time I’m woodworking, hence the small room.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby AndyT » 17 Jan 2024, 19:10

Ah sorry, I misunderstood the question. Perhaps it's the aftereffects of my basement workshop - 11 degrees at the moment. Ok if I keep moving and wear thick socks!
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 17 Jan 2024, 19:20

11 degrees, bliss, (You were lucky! Lol ) it’s about minus 8c here at the mo, I have tried wrapping up and working but can only stand it for an hour.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Mike G » 17 Jan 2024, 20:37

How about a false ceiling? Putting a ceiling at 8 feet will almost halve the volume of the space, and of course, it's a doddle to insulate. If the floor isn't insulated, you could add a floating floor (t&g ply or chipboard on 3 or 4" of insulating board), so long as the thresholds work.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 17 Jan 2024, 21:38

Mike G wrote:How about a false ceiling? Putting a ceiling at 8 feet will almost halve the volume of the space, and of course, it's a doddle to insulate. If the floor isn't insulated, you could add a floating floor (t&g ply or chipboard on 3 or 4" of insulating board), so long as the thresholds work.


Interesting thought Mike, but I think that it would be like one of those church/chapel conversions where the windows are too high and interfere with the new floor level.
Yes to a floating floor though.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Robert » 17 Jan 2024, 23:18

Back when I had a factory and before we had a proper spray facility we built a room in the corner of the main factory and it had a dual function. Welding shop with extraction and when needed spray shop for wet spray again using the extraction.

What I'm getting at is why limit the new 'room' to one function? Put your hand tools in cupboards and maybe do something messy in there like finishing.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 17 Jan 2024, 23:48

Robert wrote:Back when I had a factory and before we had a proper spray facility we built a room in the corner of the main factory and it had a dual function. Welding shop with extraction and when needed spray shop for wet spray again using the extraction.

What I'm getting at is why limit the new 'room' to one function? Put your hand tools in cupboards and maybe do something messy in there like finishing.


Good point, and there would hardly be any dust so that would work well, won’t be doing any welding though. Have to be careful though I might put a comfy chair and a tv in there haha.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2024, 10:12

A drawing or photo showing the layout and windows would be really handy. I might be that you set up a permament and smaller workshop within the space, saving the outside areas only for timber storage and so on. If you could build a space about 30 square metres you could have a fully functioning workshop, not just limited to hand-tools, and you could have fully insulated floor, walls and false ceiling. Heating that would only need a 2KW electric heater. The secondary spaces around the outside could be incredibly useful, but colder, and you'd not need to be in them much at all, winter or summer.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 18 Jan 2024, 15:06

So you agree that a warm smaller room within a larger cold space could work? What do you think to constructing it from 3” Kingspan sheets held together with a lightweight timber frame? Obviously it wouldn’t be possible to use the internal surfaces as structural surfaces.
Will get out and have a measure up later today, visitors allowing.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2024, 17:11

If I were going to do it I'd build it of 4x2 studwork (600 centres), and line the inside with 10mm OSB (painted). Fully fill (or over-fill) the studs with insulation. This would be easily strong enough to take the weight of the ceiling joists, plus storage on top. It might make sense to screw everything rather than nail it together, so that you can change it or take it down easily.

What are the dimensions of the existing room internally?
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 18 Jan 2024, 22:24

Hi Mike, sorry to say the internal dimensions are some extent a little irrelevant as the garage is also used to store a muscle car tractor and allsorts of bits and bobs. It’s 24’x 22’ and12’6” high but the large up and over door is only a foot below the ceiling.
I am thinking along the lines of 10‘ x 8‘ I have been thinking of building a cube just from Kingspan and obviously some other parts for quite a while, this came on when the energy crisis hit recently and I wondered if it would be possible for families to construct a cube inside a room to keep warm in.
The idea was furculating in my brain and then I wondered if it could be used for this.
I think a room made out of 3 inch Kingspan type stuff with perhaps a 3 inch batten running around at coving height and then the roof panels dropped in, just one joist. Plus another ring of batten at the base all screwed together would be really quite strong. I wasn’t intending to store on the roof.
Using the long screws that come fitted with 2” plastic washers that are designed for insulation jobs like this would be good and foil tape over the joins.
Do you think an R value of 3.15 (per inch I believe) would be enough?
Thanks Ian
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby 9fingers » 19 Jan 2024, 13:18

The wooden frame as you propose it will be a source of heat loss as it creates a thermal bridge around the insulation.
Consider a wooden frame and the kingspan inside the frame such that no part of the frame is visible.
put kingspan on the floor and cover with OSB sheet to minimise floor losses.

Maybe some lower power background heat plus infra red heaters that heat YOU not the air for minimal running costs.

Remember insulation only slows down the rate of heat flow - it does not create any warmth.

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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 19 Jan 2024, 13:32

That’s a good idea, thanks, yes, so a band of timber around the top and bottom on the outside, then the roof panels dropped on top and screwed down into the top outer band. Brill.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Mike G » 19 Jan 2024, 15:02

9fingers wrote:The wooden frame as you propose it will be a source of heat loss as it creates a thermal bridge around the insulation.....


Timber is a reasonable insulator. What you way is true to a degree, but the greater heat losses with the combination of timber and insulating boards are likely to be as a result of air movements at junctions.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 19 Jan 2024, 16:08

Just wondering what you all think to the basic premise? Will it be a waste of time and money? 3” Kingspan is quite tough, but tough enough? I don’t see myself fastening or hanging very much to the walls, and I think it will be easy enough and quick to build but should I?
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby PAC1 » 19 Jan 2024, 16:34

I can see why you want somewhere warm to work. It would be better if we had photos or drawings but the thought of building myself a Kingspan box to work in does not appeal:
No natural light
Condensation from breathing.
General atmosphere.
I would feel like I had finally been placed in an institution!

From what you say, I would be tempted to build a mezzanine for storage and to reduce the volume to be heated and then insulate (and level) the floor, walls and doors. The mezzanine might be designed such that it allows maximum light from the existing windows.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Mike G » 19 Jan 2024, 17:32

It sounds to me, Ian, like this is a bit like a temporary "tent" in which to work for a few months of the winter, but which you'll remove during the summer. In that case, if it is a question of either woodworking or not, then it might just be worth doing. It certainly wouldn't be the way I'd approach the issue. And if you are going to do it, find a way of making your corners robust enough to take apart and put back together again. Celotex breaks up fairly easily at the edges. Also be aware that the sheets aren't always flat, and even if they start out flat, they may develop a curve whilst in use.......and as I said in another answer, draughts from the junctions is likely to be your biggest problem.
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Doug » 19 Jan 2024, 19:16

Years ago I read about a bloke who had a decent size workshop but needed a spray room, he didn’t want to use up valuable space building a permanent room so came up with the idea of having two light weight panels that hinged off the walls in one corner of his shop.
When the panels were pulled out they formed a square box around 8’ square in the corner of the workshop & when folded back against the wall took up minimal space. If I remember correctly he built a door way in the one panel & both panels were insulated as he wanted to heat the spray room.
If you could manage something like that it would be ideal as you’re not having to find storage space for panels & once folded away only take up a few inches depth & if the outer face is ply etc you could still hang things on them
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Re: Hand tool room within a room?

Postby Cabinetman » 19 Jan 2024, 20:10

Thank you all, a lot of valid and interesting points raised, a lot to think about, is it really going to be worth it for the 4 really hot and really cold months? Just suffer?
Doug you have me thinking, temporary two walls and a roof?
I never ever thought that a workshop being too large could be a problem!
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