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Nick's workshop

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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Sep 2018, 16:12

Hi Nick,

I'm trying to see this from a layman's point of view.

If you just put a metal cladding on the roof for the temporary situation, you will get condensation and that can potentially damage roof timbers in the long term but in the short term what you are storing, particularly as it will drip on to it. I know I stored my stuff in a container for 5 years!!!!

I think the way to go is to use OSB onto the rafters, then battens, then metal cladding and the battens gap creates the space which ventilates the roof structure, preventing condensation settling on roof timbers. The OSB then creates a vapour barrier.

Put everything together with screws so that the dismantling will be easier, and many screws could be reusable. I find that torx headed screws are far more reusable than pozi headed which tend to get rounded off.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby 9fingers » 06 Sep 2018, 17:05

In an ideal world yes add battens running down the slope on top of the OSB but in practice for a short term solution, the channels formed by the roofing sheets will give some vent channels and any condensation should run down the water resistant surface of the OSB and drain away harmlessly.

I don't think we are after the Rolls Royce solution here, Ford should be more than adequate!

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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 06 Sep 2018, 18:37

Thanks both. Right, OSB it is. If I am adding OSB to the roof then I might as well put on breather membrane, battens and cladding. I can re-use the OSB on the roof for the workshop. I'm putting breather membrane to the walls anyway and will have loads left over, so it won't cost any more.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 06 Sep 2018, 20:46

brick plinth detail.png
(722.64 KiB)


EDIT: diagram says C32 timber. Should be C24- I'm working on a project called C32 in work and I cannot get it out of my head!
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Roof OSB.png
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Rafter detail.png
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Last edited by bluebirdnick on 08 Sep 2018, 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 06 Sep 2018, 21:17

cladding, wall separation.png
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 06 Sep 2018, 21:29

Some pics from my sketchup model. The long walls are made in two sections to make life easier when I come to move it. The cladding will be cut so that it does not need to be removed in order to move each part of the wall. For the same reason, the breather membrane will be wrapped around each part of the wall before they are joined, so that they are still detachable. The join is covered by 2 battens, on top of which I have put the white batten to protect the cut edges of the cladding. When it comes time to do the move, I just remove the white batten and unbolt the two wall parts from the inside. Each wall part will be heavy with the cladding on it, but I hope not so heavy that it cannot be lifted and moved by two people.

The other long wall will have box profile metal cladding as it is tight up against a fence and unseen. I will reuse that cladding for the back wall of the workshop, which will also be unseen.

The corners will be 47mmx100mm timbers. Not as pretty as the more intricate corners that I've seen on here, but it requires less skill and less time to do so I am going with it.

I will also put in blocks between the rafters to close up that gap, but leave say 30mm for an air gap which will be covered by insect mesh.

The brick plinth and roof timbers will all go to waste when I come to do the move, but the rest should all be reusable. I am hoping I can reuse entire sections as constructed rather than breaking the building up into the individual timbers, but I will put it together with screws and bolts just in case (except the cladding, which will be nailed on). I was actually looking at using torx screws but I've got about 500 fischer 100mm screws with a pozi head so I'll get through those first!
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Sep 2018, 22:07

Looks like you've got it covered, Nick.

I found the beauty of Sketchup was that if I couldn't make it or fit it on the screen then it wouldn't work on site. So I'd carry on till I found something that would work.

Keep it up.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 08 Sep 2018, 12:54

A quick question on the plinth.

I was planning a on doing 3 courses of bricks in stretcher bond. But obviously a brick is only 102mm wide - just about wide enough to sit the wall frame timbers on. By the time you add the battens and the cladding, the wall thickness gets to 150mm+.

Is it OK to leave the cladding overhanging the wall? I see Mike's workshop has 50mm blocks behind the brickwork, but neither of the suppliers I am using have 50mm blocks. How much of a faff would it be to cut a 100mm block into two 50mm blocks? I think I need 30x 50mm blocks, so that means (successfully) cutting 15 100mm blocks.

If it is too much of a pain, I assume there is no reason why 100mm blocks instead wouldn't work, other than it being more than is necessary?

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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Sep 2018, 13:32

Nick,

Thermalite and similar blocks are easy to cut with any of cheap saw from a DIY shop, although I did buy a stone cutting saw from Toolstation, it was only about £16.

I also made up a jig so the saw didn't wander on the way down. It was not too much trouble and I had a similar number to cut.

It would be desirable for the cladding, or at least the bottom most couple of lengths, to over hang the wall so that rain doesn't drip straight on to it. I also incorporated a bit of a drip curve into the bottom length to encourage the drips to increase in size and fall outside the wall.

And that's why the wall is made 50mm thicker to accommodate studying, battens and cladding etc.

Good luck.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Sep 2018, 10:47

bluebirdnick wrote:A quick question on the plinth.

I was planning a on doing 3 courses of bricks in stretcher bond. But obviously a brick is only 102mm wide - just about wide enough to sit the wall frame timbers on. By the time you add the battens and the cladding, the wall thickness gets to 150mm+.

Is it OK to leave the cladding overhanging the wall? I see Mike's workshop has 50mm blocks behind the brickwork, but neither of the suppliers I am using have 50mm blocks. How much of a faff would it be to cut a 100mm block into two 50mm blocks? I think I need 30x 50mm blocks, so that means (successfully) cutting 15 100mm blocks.

If it is too much of a pain, I assume there is no reason why 100mm blocks instead wouldn't work, other than it being more than is necessary?

Thanks


There are two or three threads that demo where members have done exactly this Nick, cutting blocks down. Have a search for block cutting and see what you find and that should help you with what you're looking for.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 16 Sep 2018, 21:02

Good evening all.

2 days in, and the brick plinth is up. One skin only - the blocks that sit behind the brickwork are not yet done. Pics to follow tomorrow. As mentioned above, this was my first go at brickwork. It's hard, slow, messy and not much fun, but it's level and done. The base I was working off was not level - it was out by at least 20mm over the length and 30mm from one corner to another which led to a good 90 mins of head scratching. My kees are done too. Making the mortar was the hard part. Dad was helping - he seemed to think the building sand was wrong but the mix took much more water than any guides on making mortar would suggest.

Question
There is a fairly glaring design flaw. The top of the wall plate will be about 1.8m above the ground. This was what I wanted and the timber I've ordered means that this is really all I can build. However, because I am doubling up the wall plate at the gable walls, it means that the underside of the wall plate is just 1.7m above the ground. I will have to duck to get in.

new gable wall - original.jpg
(116.89 KiB)


So I need to find 15cm extra height at the doors, ideally 20cm. Lengthening the main studs beyond 1.5m is going to cause me trouble, so would this work instead?

new gable wall - proposed.jpg
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It looks like it might be a pain to make so I think i would actually make it largely as originally designed, and then cut the wall plate and sole plate once it is in place and add in the longer door lining timber (150mm x 50mm) and the doubled-up plates above (the lower of which would be 150x50 and form part of the door frame). The main concern is whether this would get in the way of the rafters - I will have to do the maths to work that out - but thought I would check to see if anyone had any other concerns.

Lessons for next time

Seriously - get someone else to do it if possible. No part of this was enjoyable.
If I do have to do it:
- It DOES get much, much faster once the corners are in and you can string a line.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Mike G » 16 Sep 2018, 21:05

You don't have to have corners in to string a line! You can build a temporary wooden arrangement to tie your strings to. It speeds things up no end.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 16 Sep 2018, 21:33

Mike G wrote:You don't have to have corners in to string a line! You can build a temporary wooden arrangement to tie your strings to. It speeds things up no end.

Doesn't it just. it took me hours and hours to get those corners in. Once the string line went down and I could build the walls, I was putting bricks in at about 5 times the speed. (but still slow!)
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 17 Sep 2018, 10:47

quick question: The temporary shed/garage is being built tight up against a fence and so was going to lay blocks along that wall for the outer skin. Are areated blocks OK for this, or do i need medium dense? I cannot see how they could get wet, but I've got a nagging concern that something that looks a bit like a sponge may not be great externally, even though the supplier says that they can be used below DPC and externally.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Coolhands » 17 Sep 2018, 23:12

The thermalite blocks on my inner skin appeared to suck water up when it rained earlier last week on my build (mine is open and unbuilt at the moment) so I wouldn’t risk it unless anyone knows different.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 17 Sep 2018, 23:17

Another quick question.

The FE boards I've ordered to clad this building are pressure treated. I didn't really think twice about it- I always order the same stuff for fences etc that I leave unpainted. But I want to paint this building. Bedec's technical sheet tells me that I need to leave pressure treated wood for at least 5 months before painting. Whoops.

So am I left with cladding it unpainted, and painting it in the spring? Any way I can get these boards painted before they go up?
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby TrimTheKing » 17 Sep 2018, 23:33

I don’t know why they say that unless it’s because the tanalising goop might leach out through the paint.

If that’s the case then try Zinsser Bin or similar stain coat as your primer and that should be fine I would think.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Sep 2018, 10:02

In reaction to the cladding, we are encouraged to paint both sides of the cladding to enable even movement of the wood, or rather to prevent uneven movement of the wood.

Therefore, that requires the inside faces and edges to be painted before the cladding is attached.

I used a local sawmill to supply newly cut FE cladding and painted each board with 2 watered down coats of Bedec Barn Paint all round before putting it up, and a full strength coat after.

Would it be possible to return the treated FE and then source a sawmill to supply newly cut boards?
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 18 Sep 2018, 16:40

Thanks all. Malcolm- good question. I've given the supplier a call. They don't stock untreated but say they will give the sawmill a call to see what it would cost, if anything, to swap it for the same in untreated.

Wall panels made today. Not put up yet, but a far more enjoyable day than kneeling down trying to do brickwork (badly). Pics to follow tomorrow - honest!
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Mike G » 19 Sep 2018, 08:05

I wouldn't take any notice of the treated timber thing. Bedec Barn Paint works perfectly well over treated timber.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 20 Sep 2018, 23:26

About time I put up some pics. Here is where we are at close of play today- ridge beam temporarily in place, with gable rafters up. Plan for tomorrow is to put in the rest of the rafters and OSB roof sheeting, and cover with breather membrane ready for the rain on the weekend.

The sole and wall plates on the front and and back wall will then be cut; door lining and support for ridge beam installed per my post above.

EDIT: Apologies for the orientation. Will fix!

20180920_174821_resized.jpg
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Andyp » 21 Sep 2018, 09:24

Looks good to me Nick. Well done.

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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby DaveL » 21 Sep 2018, 11:26

That's looking good.
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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Rod » 21 Sep 2018, 12:27

I built my shed a couple of summers ago when the weather was really bad and very changeable.
I laid OSB then EPDM to make roof water tight then covered walls with the breather membrane.
Doing the rest inside ie internal insulation, OSB linings etc wasn’t that much more difficult but it meant I could crack on with everything nice and dry.

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Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 21 Sep 2018, 14:06

Looking nice.
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