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Small workshop

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 22 Feb 2019, 22:30

I have been re reading some threads on rooves namely Mr G s there is mention of eaves detail 145 x 45mm in between the rafters. Position wise they look like they are close to the edge of the upper plates and they are shaped by plane after fitting.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 23 Feb 2019, 09:38

I didn't use any detail. I put a facia along the ends of the rafters which closes them off and gave me something to fix the guttering to. I then closed of the remain gap (where a soffit would normally go, I think) with insect mesh, so this contributed to the ventilation of the roof materials.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 23 Feb 2019, 19:42

Thanks Malcolm some of the pictures from your thread are not visible I think it must have been around the time of the photo bucket issues.
My roof is made from 150 x 45mm so with the 100mm of insulation I am left with 45mm air gap I think that is the plan.
I will be trimming the rest of the foam tomorrow and will continue insulating the walls.

Image2019-02-23_06-21-39 by my0771, on Flickr

I may have gotten carried away with the foam gun :lol:
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 23 Feb 2019, 21:37

Foam gun can be good fun!

Closing off with insect mesh.
IMG_1245.JPG
(313.47 KiB)


Facia and gables fitted after the mesh was fitted.
IMG_1293.JPG
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Re: Small workshop

Postby RogerS » 23 Feb 2019, 23:09

Question for Mike GI guess.

Looking at this photo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47080473@N07/40223593823/

How does the air circulate ? There's that ridge beam that stops it. When I insulated my garage I made sure that the air could come in at one end and exit the other.

[Oh I give up trying to link to a photo in a thread !)

It's the one of the roof and insulation
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Mike G » 24 Feb 2019, 09:16

Ideally airflow should be continuous over the ridge, but frankly, unless these buildings are occupied and heated every day, or used for a wet activity, it isn't a big deal. If there is a breathable membrane and tiles, then it is utterly irrelevant, but if the roof covering is OSB and rubber, or some other vapour-impermeable combination, then, yeah, in a perfect world there would be airflow over the ridge below the OSB.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 24 Feb 2019, 09:49

Thanks guys.
I am going for the ideal world, As I currently have a 50mm gap I propose to fill that with insulation then vapour barrier and batten it. Then proceed with the OSB3 and EDPM.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 24 Feb 2019, 18:04

Having averted an error this morning I covered myself up and started cutting and fitting the loft type insulation we have not had any rain however it was misty and damp until lunchtime. This did mean that there were no fibres floating around like yesterday afternoon.
When fitting the membrane does it wrap over the edge of the roof or does it end where the insulation ends.

Image2019-02-24_03-09-18 by my0771, on Flickr

As you can see I have placed it over the rafter ends which don't think need to be covered.
So I plan to move this before I start to fit the battens.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby tabs » 26 Feb 2019, 00:07

MY63 wrote:Thanks guys.
I am going for the ideal world, As I currently have a 50mm gap I propose to fill that with insulation then vapour barrier and batten it. Then proceed with the OSB3 and EDPM.



Sorry if I'm wrong but it seems the layers you have working from the underside of the roof are:

osb,
rigid foam insulation

and are then intending to put



50mm more rigid insulation
vapour barrier
osb and then epdm?

This is very similar to my roof construction but more of a hybrid?. I wanted a "warm roof" so I could have the rafters exposed inside. To my knowledge you shouldn't be putting a vapour barrier on top of the layers of insulation, it should have gone on top of the bottom layer of osb. On my roof I couldn't justify the expense of the top layer of osb so I just layed the epdm directly (glued) onto the insulation board. I did have a 50mm high batten all around the roof perimeter that I could glue the epdm to.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick or are confusing matters!
The epdm is breathable I think
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Rod » 26 Feb 2019, 00:59

I don’t think EPDM is breathable, it’s a rubber compound very similar to pond liners.

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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 26 Feb 2019, 08:38

tabs wrote:
MY63 wrote:Thanks guys.
I am going for the ideal world, As I currently have a 50mm gap I propose to fill that with insulation then vapour barrier and batten it. Then proceed with the OSB3 and EDPM.



Sorry if I'm wrong but it seems the layers you have working from the underside of the roof are:

osb,
rigid foam insulation

and are then intending to put



50mm more rigid insulation
vapour barrier
osb and then epdm?

This is very similar to my roof construction but more of a hybrid?. I wanted a "warm roof" so I could have the rafters exposed inside. To my knowledge you shouldn't be putting a vapour barrier on top of the layers of insulation, it should have gone on top of the bottom layer of osb. On my roof I couldn't justify the expense of the top layer of osb so I just layed the epdm directly (glued) onto the insulation board. I did have a 50mm high batten all around the roof perimeter that I could glue the epdm to.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick or are confusing matters!
The epdm is breathable I think


I have to be honest I am no expert I am following MikeG's plan The inner OSB3 acts as a vapour barrier preventing moisture from moving from the inside.
Then we have the insulation 100mm in the walls and now 150mm in the roof space between the rafters some is solid and the upper layer is glass insulation.
The next stage is a membrane to allow moisture out but not in.
After the battens go on I will put the final layer of OSB3 which will have the waterproof EDPM glued to it.
My understanding is that the outer cover keeps the weather out and the vented space allows any condensation to evaporate in the air flow.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Mike G » 26 Feb 2019, 09:30

Yep, you've got that right, Michael.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 26 Feb 2019, 20:43

Hi all
Nothing to update over the last few days I stood in front of my workshop on Sunday evening and thought this is too big. I wanted a small workshop as per the title and feel as though I have gotten carried away.
My neighbors are too polite to say anything but I don't think I would be too happy if one of them had built it.
Time for a rethink.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby 9fingers » 26 Feb 2019, 20:53

MY63 wrote:Hi all
Nothing to update over the last few days I stood in front of my workshop on Sunday evening and thought this is too big. I wanted a small workshop as per the title and feel as though I have gotten carried away.
My neighbors are too polite to say anything but I don't think I would be too happy if one of them had built it.
Time for a rethink.


You will soon grow into it. Reducing size now will be madness :lol:

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Re: Small workshop

Postby Andyp » 27 Feb 2019, 07:16

Once it is clad and has time to weather it will not stick out so much nor look so big.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Feb 2019, 09:50

And once all the materials have been cleared away, it'll look much smaller in the garden.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby tabs » 28 Feb 2019, 16:02

Rod wrote:I don’t think EPDM is breathable, it’s a rubber compound very similar to pond liners.

Rod

Yes, its a rubber like compund but its advertised as breathable.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby 9fingers » 28 Feb 2019, 16:48

tabs wrote:
Rod wrote:I don’t think EPDM is breathable, it’s a rubber compound very similar to pond liners.

Rod

Yes, its a rubber like compund but its advertised as breathable.


Whoever is advertising it as breathable is wrong.
EPDM sheet is totally impermeable.
You might manage to get a few vapour molecules per fortnight to diffuse through under pressure but that is about it. :lol:

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Re: Small workshop

Postby Mike G » 28 Feb 2019, 18:18

The EPDM isn't the issue, it's the board it sits on which prevents vapour transmission. It wouldn't matter if EPDM was a breathable as a sieve. Lead rooves have the same issue, and the same detail: ventilation below them.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 28 Feb 2019, 22:17

Sorry about the wobble I believed I had done enough research to be sure I was not breaching any regulation or planning law.
As my local planning dept won’t give advice without a planning application or application for a certificate of lawful construction. I had to go searching for information regarding height, I had read this before but as usual could not find it again. The guidance below gives specific information regarding heigh of buildings section E sub section E gives the complete wording.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _FINAL.pdf

If you don’t wish to see the whole document here is the relevant paragraph:

Any buildings within the curtilage can only have one storey. Buildings with more than one storey are not permitted development and will require an application for planning permission.
(e) the height of the building, enclosure or container would exceed -
(i) 4 metres in the case of a building with a dual-pitched roof,
(ii) 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within 2 metres of the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse, or
(iii) 3 metres in any other case
The height of the building, enclosure or container should be measured from the highest ground level immediately adjacent to the building, enclosure, or container to its highest point.
The height limit on a ‘dual-pitched roof’ of four metres should also be applied to buildings that have ‘hipped’ roofs (slopes on all four sides).
If any part of the building, container or enclosure is within two metres of the boundary of the curtilage of the house, then the height limit for the total development is restricted to 2.5 metres if it is to be permitted development.

As I am within 2m of the boundary I am in the 2.5m max height but as I am below 15m2 building regs do not apply. I made sure to use the non combustible bats in that area and I am looking for fire resistant cladding for the outside.

I feel I should explain that as I suffer from complex regional pain syndrome ie pain 24, 7 my pain is affected by stress. As soon as I started stressing over this issue my pain spiked and I was unable to sleep and function.
Now I have sorted this matter in my head and had a chat with my neighbour who is quite happy I am hopeful that my pain will decrease and I can finish the bloody roof.

Thanks to those who offered support very much appreciated.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 28 Feb 2019, 22:35

Before I seal this roof forever (as far as I am concerned) I have filled the 50mm void above the hard insulation with soft insulation. If I then run my battens parallel to the rafters and lay the OSB3 over that. How does the air flow freely are the front and rear ends the source of air flow.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby MY63 » 01 Mar 2019, 20:47

Way too much information in previous posts time foe a picture.
First job was to fill the ends of the rafters then I started fixing the battens to the roof and sorting the roof membrane as I went. As I had to buy another 50 m roll I added an extra length so I have 5 strips in all.

Image2019-03-01_07-37-55 by my0771, on Flickr

When it got too dark to work up the ladders I started putting the side battens on.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby RogerS » 01 Mar 2019, 22:27

Michael, all I can say is :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: for all your hard work.

Truly impressive given that IIRC you've never done anything on this scale before.
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Re: Small workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 01 Mar 2019, 23:00

:text-+1:
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Re: Small workshop

Postby EssJay » 02 Mar 2019, 07:29

Well done Michael, :eusa-clap:

although I don't post much I do look in daily on the forum to see what people are up to.

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