It is currently 30 Nov 2020, 05:02

Nick's workshop

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 17 Nov 2020, 20:13

Some more photos from this weekend. I got the doors on after squaring the building up again - they need a good clean!

Screenshot 2020-11-17 at 18.48.51.png
(974.38 KiB)


I don't know what has happened to the breather membrane on that front wall- it was not like that when the building was taken down in January. I'll have to investigate. I have no overhang at all on the front or back of the building (defintely a mistake, aesthetically as well as practically) so it does really matter that there is a proper waterproof layer. I suspect I'll have to remove some of the cladding and re-fix it. Argh.

And then today, some nice new stuff arrived:

Screenshot 2020-11-17 at 19.09.45.png
(1006.25 KiB)


I have a pile of those sort-of rigid insulation batts for the walls and 10 sheets of 11mm plywood to line the walls; and a big pile of roof batten, for battening the roof (obviously). The delivery driver was super helpful and helped me carry all of this stuff into the garage, in return for my gift of a sheet carrier handle. And as insulating and lining the walls is all indoor work, I can (theoretically) do it in the evenings after work/kids bed time. Let's see if I manage it this week. You can also see that I've started to dig a trench around the slab and fill with pea shingle, to prevent water/soil/leaves/whatever sitting against the slab above the DPC. Lots more to do on that and lots of tidying up to do generally, but that trench, plus some guttering for the water running off the roof, should do the job.
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 17 Nov 2020, 20:22

I like the colour combinations.
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4579
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 17 Nov 2020, 21:05

The other job that I am going to need to tackle soon is the floor. This is a frustration: I wanted a much smoother finish on the concrete and was going to paint that and use it as my finished floor. But the builder left it very rough. I should have been there to supervise but work got in the way and I left him to it - as far as I can tell they did little more than drag a timber across it. And then the bricklayer's labourer cut the blocks on it and generally made a right mess. Then I left it for a month gathering leaves and other garden waste before putting the walls up. Result: it's dusty and filthy, and rough and I cannot live with that. So I am going to put down Ardex K 301 (a self levelling compound suitable to use as a finished floor) which is a product i have used before and really liked. An expense and a task I could have done without. In particular as it is a large area to do with no help, and lockdown means getting help is difficult. But before I even get that far I first need to clean the floor. Now that I've got the sheet material etc for the wall lining, my thoughts on order of play are:

1) insulate and line walls (I might as well do the roof while I am at it)
2) paint the walls
3) cover the walls with plastic sheets and then power wash the concrete floor, brushing the water out of the door
4) leave to dry out a bit, then remove plastic sheets and vacuum the floor
5) put down the SLC.
6) paint when dry with floor paint.

It is annoying that I've got this job to do - part of the reason for getting the builder (who I generally trust) to do the slab was that I thought I'd end up with a decent finish, but it is what it is.

Thoughts on the above plan? the main concern I have is the amount of water I will be putting inside the building when I power wash it. The inside skin is made of thermalite blocks which are surely going to soak up a lot of that, and the concrete itself is likely to hold moisture for a while too.
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 17 Nov 2020, 21:47

Is there not a machine you could hire for half a day to clean up the surface before applying the SLC?

I would think the use of that volume of water is likely to take an age to leave the fabric of the building.
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4579
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby RogerS » 17 Nov 2020, 22:11

I wouldn't power wash it. Put on some good music, elbow grease, bucket and bristle brush. Problem solved. It doesn't need to be spotless.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7681
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 18 Nov 2020, 01:44

Thanks both. Malcolm, that is exactly my concern - what sort of machine do you have in mind? A concrete grinder or something? And Roger, that is the other alternative. If it was July I'd be happy power washing it, but it's not. I'll try to get some photos so you can see what I am dealing with here, but a comination of a rough surface; a bricklayer and labourer who made a mess of the slab (see photos on previous page); and then me and a labourer walking all over it in muddy boots have left a serious mess that I do think needs quite a bit of water to clean off.

The Ardex SLC can be laid over damp surfaces, but they do have to be clean (They have some clever science at Ardex).
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Nov 2020, 09:48

I have no idea what machines may be available, but if there are any, I'm sure someone here will know.

Otherwise, It looks like Roger says that elbow grease, a wet vac and a leaf blower to dry the elbow grease might be what it needs.
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4579
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby StevieB » 18 Nov 2020, 12:23

Do you need a concrete floor? It is cold, dusty and damages anything dropped on it. Laying P5 T+G chipboard would be the way I would go, either straight onto the floor (+/- membrane) or on bearers if you want insulation and can afford the height.
StevieB
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 669
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:47
Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 18 Nov 2020, 16:37

Thanks both. Malcolm- I suspect if I go that route it will end up with doing a few rounds of scrubbing, vacuuming and drying!

I'd never even considered a chipboard floor - it seemed an unnecessary task/cost to install one as I thought I'd have a good flat clean concrete floor. I don't really care what my finished floor is made of, as long as it is flat, level, clean, dry and durable.

The slab should be dry - the builder put in a DPM under the concrete. But obviously this is not built to building regs standards and despite my little trench around the outside which should reduce moisture getting in to the side of the slab, it is surely inevitable that some moisture will find its way through. So I cannot bring myself to just put chipboard (or OSB or whatever) directly onto the concrete. I do however have a lot of DPM left so could easily put that down underneath. Not sure there would be any downside to this, so for now let's assume I'd do that.

As regards insulating under a chipboard floor: Height-wise, I am struggling a bit. Inside, it is just about head height at the side walls, and about 2.1m under the ties. It feels fine at the moment because I've not lined the roof - it is going to be a bit tighter when I do. But One more importantly, my doors open inwards so clearance is an issue. I think there is about 50mm potentially - the new brick plinth is maybe 20mm higher than the last one, and there was a timber strip under the doorway in the previous location so adding those things together, I get to a potential 50mm clearance before I need to adjust the doors (I would install door stops anyway to avoid excess drafts.) So there might just be about space for 25mm of PIR insulation under a chipboard floor, which I think would still leave acceptable headroom. I am assuming that the thermal benefit would be negligible. (I am discounting poystyrene - just don't like it).

To be honest the main function of the insulation for me would be to flatten out the rough bits so the chipboard has a smooth flat surface to rest on! The cheaper alternative would be to use a normal flooring underlay under the chipboard, like you might with a floating engineered wood floor.

So my options are:

1) clean floor and put down SLC wear layer and paint (hard; time consuming; surprisingly expensive; but doesn't reduce headroom)

2) 22mm chipboard (or OSB, ply) layed directly over concrete with DPM underneath (cheap, quick, clean, more comfortable, no material reduction in headroom; but as concrete floor isn't great I'm not sure how good this would feel)

3) 22mm chipboard (or OSB, ply) layed over 25mm PIR insulation with DPM underneath, either on bearers or as a complete "sheet" covering the floor (more expensive than option 2 but still considerably cheaper and considerably easier than 1; expect it to feel nicer under foot; loss of headroom / door clearance should be manageable. Thermal benefit expected to be negligible)

4) 22mm chipboard (Or OSB, ply) floated over laminate underlay like Timbermate Excel, with built-in DPM. (cheap and quick, minimal impact on headroom; no concerns on door clearance)

The more I think about it, the more I am tempted by options 3 and 4. I would still give the concrete a decent brush and vacuum, but if nothing else it will save me about £250 on the Ardex SLC (and let's be honest - I could easily make a mess of doing the SLC on an area that large, it is twice as large as any I've done before). I'd paint the chipboard with floor paint to brigthen it up a bit and to increase durability. The only concession I think I'd make is to make sure everything that goes in there- workbench; saw; shelving etc goes on castors so it doesn't scratch up the floor if I'm dragging them around. But that is no real hardship.

Are there any downsides to options 3 and 4 that I am missing?
Thanks!
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby 9fingers » 18 Nov 2020, 16:53

I have a variant on 3.
Concrete base with DPM like yours turned out less than perfect finish.
I screwed 25mm tiling battens down with packers to get it dead flat, then filled all gaps under battens with mortar.
25 mm polystyrene in all the gaps and 18mm sheathing ply screwed into the battens. 2-3 coats of water based floor varnish. just starting to wear in busy patches after about 13 years
Not fantastic insulation but better than nowt but the wooden surface is so much nicer to stand on if I'm out there all day.

No regrets over this method.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6206
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby greeno » 18 Nov 2020, 16:59

I have a floating floor, chipboard on pir.

Pir will deform if there are point forces applied to it so I suspect you'll be OK and it would absorb some of your lumps and bumps.
greeno
New Shoots
 
Posts: 86
Joined: 19 Jul 2016, 10:46
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Nov 2020, 17:15

I'll second the idea for everything on castors. Absolutely everything in my 'shop is on wheels. You'd be surprised how much rearranging you do on the fly just get the spac to get one job done, and how easy it is when they're on wheels.

I can recommend the quality and value of Coldene Castors.

https://coldene.co.uk/

Made in Britain and much better quality and tolerances than cheaper ones available in large outlets.

I found the rubber wheels, even on painted shuttering ply, deformed under heavy loads, so get the hard polypropylene wheels, and I particularly favour the twin versions for heavier stuff.

https://mendipcastors.co.uk/product/black-polypropylene-twin-wheels-bolt-hole-braked/
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4579
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Woodbloke » 18 Nov 2020, 19:01

greeno wrote:I have a floating floor, chipboard on pir.


Same here. My floor is fully suspended and if you were to lift one of the ply sheets on the floor (covered with hardboard) the earth would be at least 300mm underneath. As I've done it this way, its easy to run the ring main underneath the floor so that power could be supplied to the router table and AirPress that both sit slap bang in the middle of the shop - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2326
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name: Rob Stoakley

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 18 Nov 2020, 23:18

Thanks all.

I went out to measure the gap under the doors. It's nothing like the 50mm I estimated- it's 30mm at best.

So if I want a chipboard* floor, and I think I do, then I can either shave 10mm or so off the top and bottom of each door with a circular saw and go with the 25mm PIR/22mm Chipboard option; or save myself a job and just use laminate underlay and an 18mm chipboard floor.

I therefore have 2 questions:

1) I am fairly sure I want to float the chipboard floor in either case. It will be fully supported on PIR/underlay, which is entirely supported by the slab. Any reason why I'd go with 22mm instead of 18mm?

2) Any thoughts on the viability of the laminate underlay? I can't see why it shouldn't work, but I might be missing something.

Thanks!

*chipboard or ply- if ply, 18mm is surely enough. I read through Greno's posts and based on his comments, I have discounted using OSB for the floor.
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2020, 23:35

If you've a heavy bench or machinery I certainly would go for 22mm rather than 18. OSB is completely unsuitable as a final floor finish, as others have said, and whatever you go for it should be T&G all round and fully glued.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5142
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Cabinetman » 19 Nov 2020, 00:10

Just for once Mike I feel I have to disagree with you, my workshop floor is 18 mil tongue and groove edge OSB 2.4 x 600 mil, I have very heavy cast-iron bits on it which I slide about a bit now and again, and it still looks as good as the day went down about eight years ago with 2or 3 coats of water-based polyurethane floor varnish. Just screwed down to joists at 16 inch centres, no noggins I relied on the T&G. Ian
Cabinetman
New Shoots
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 11 Oct 2020, 07:32
Location: Caistor Lincolnshire
Name: Ian S

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 19 Nov 2020, 00:44

Thanks all. I don't have any really heavy stuff to be honest. My workbench is the heaviest thing and that is a DIY job, made from 8x 47x100 timbers and a bit of 25mm plywood. If it is 50kg I'd be surprised. So 18mm might be enough.

Out of interest, what is the specific problem with OSB as a floor? I've used 18mm OSB to board out parts of the loft, which is used for storage of lightweight stuff.
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Mike G » 19 Nov 2020, 07:38

The problem is splinters. It's essentially made up of a whole lot of splinters glued together, and any damage will leave a whole lot of them sticking up ready to catch the unwary.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5142
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby MY63 » 19 Nov 2020, 08:38

This is what I used left open to the weather whilst I worked on them.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3663&start=450

https://www.egger.com/shop/en_GB/buildi ... il/PROTECT
MY63
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 848
Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 20:41
Location: North East England
Name: Michael

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby greeno » 19 Nov 2020, 10:52

It'll raise your threshold slightly but what is do is run a course of bricks across the threshold, you have a half brick on one side, you'll easily be able to cut that out to make it neat. This gives you a new floor height.

With mortar you will have 75mm so plenty of depth for chipboard and insulation.

If you go chipboard, get the flooring (think it's 600x2400). It's all moisture resistant.

The s stuff for lofts isn't.
greeno
New Shoots
 
Posts: 86
Joined: 19 Jul 2016, 10:46
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 20 Nov 2020, 02:25

Thanks everyone. Interesting point on OSB. I do tend to use plywood where possible because I just like it - I think it looks good and I like working with it. But when I came to board out the loft over lockdown, I couldn't get hold of 18mm ply at anything close to a reasonable price so went with OSB instead (which still cost me a small fortune). I actually like the look of the osb in the loft - a large area covered with that rough variegated surface looks quite modern. And as its gone down in a loft where I rarely tread other than to continue with my insanely drawn-out MVHR installation, I suspect it will be OK. But if I've made a mistake then I will happily overboard with hardboard which is still mercifully cheap. [As an aside: It's been a funny year for materials. I simply couldn't get hold of 18mm ply for less than £40 a sheet that weekend, and the builders were showing me what a bag of plaster cost back in the summer and I couldn't quite believe it (we had to delay some of the work as they could only get hold of some turkish plaster which was absolutely awful). And I tried to get hold of some 2.4m lengths of 47x100 treated timber last weekend - none available around here, or even at Builder Depot. And that is surely an absolutely staple building material.]

Anyway: this floor. Thanks so much for all the suggestions, I really really do appreciate all of the help you are giving me with the construction of this building. The chat here has caused me to re-read a lot of the other builds which was interesting. I've concluded that with the slab I've got, the quickest route to an acceptable floor for me is chipboard. Plus, someone made the point that dropping stuff on concrete does it no good, and I drop stuff. A lot. But while I like the idea of additional insulation and that this would possibly allow me which would give me a better building than I'd planned, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that I have a young family and I promised my wife that this building would be up in a few days work rather than a few weeks. Any meaningful depth of insulation means messing about with the doors and the thresholds, so I am not going to do anything to accommodate floor insulation for thermal benefit.

As things stand I've got 30mm of clearance under the doors before I have to shave anything off top and bottom. This might sound lazy but I'm just trying to stick to what I'd set out to do, which is build a solid, dry, clean building as quickly as I possibly can. So if a laminate underlay with built-in DPM under a 22mm chipboard t&g floor will give me a flat, smooth, dry, quiet floor that I can install without making any other chnges then that's what I will do, because it will give me a suitable floor in an hour or so. So that is my plan A, as long as it's good enough. I've no doubt that there are other better ways to do this that might take more effort, but "good enough" will do for me.

Meanwhile, I first have to insulate it; get the wall lining in; and get the roof on!
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby StevieB » 20 Nov 2020, 09:40

Sounds fine to me. Don't tuck the floor under the internal wall lining (i.e. line first, then floor up to that) and you can always lift it and insulate underneath later if necessary.
StevieB
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 669
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:47
Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby bluebirdnick » 21 Nov 2020, 18:59

I managed to get about 3 hours at it today. Insulation went in really easily on one of the long walls - these batts are far more rigid than the ones I used on the last building, and half of them went in without any cutting due to the way I'd spaced the noggins.

Screenshot 2020-11-21 at 17.45.46.png
(1.64 MiB)


I managed to put the internal plywood partially up too on that wall before I lost the light, with some help:

Screenshot 2020-11-23 at 14.29.59.png
(1.51 MiB)


However, I've got a problem. The plastic sheeeting I am using as a temporary roof seemingly blew back in one corner yesterday, and left the other long wall exposed to some quite heavy rain. This means that on that side, the floor is wet and and the timber is pretty wet too. So I didn't put in any insulation or ply line that side. But when can I?! I've sorted the roof problem now so don't think it will happen again. I left the front and back doors open all day to get some air flow through the building and I've put a dehumidifer in there. I suspect I'll add an electric heater. But I don't think they will make much of a difference. And we are in November - hard to see that it is going to get warm enough to dry it out any time soon. Could i dry out the wet timbers with a heat gun? Or can I just carry on insulating and lining the building, and they will just dry out anyway in their own time?
Last edited by bluebirdnick on 23 Nov 2020, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
bluebirdnick
New Shoots
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 22:33
Location: Herts
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby RogerS » 21 Nov 2020, 19:13

Don't worry about heat. Just get air flowing over it. Fan heater on cold , for example...door open etc. It's not as bad as you think it is.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7681
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Nick's workshop

Postby Mike G » 21 Nov 2020, 19:21

Seriously, Nick, that's nothing to worry about. I had 2 inches of water in my workshop once. Throw the doors open and leave it. It'll soon be fine.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5142
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

PreviousNext

Return to Workshop Builds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests