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Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby 9fingers » 22 Aug 2015, 13:24

Mike G wrote:Dan, give me you length & width across the plates and I'll draw it for you. Obviously I'll need to know which way it has to fall (slope down).



What a generous offer!! top man :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:

Bob
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 22 Aug 2015, 15:07

Very grateful Mike to have your professional views on this, it’s my first roof and I’m looking forward to it very much. I just want to make sure I have as many structural issues out of the way as I can before I go ahead and then I’ve only got the practical ones to face during the build! Your assistance is very much appreciated.

My plate size is predicted to be 3.35m x 6.7m I say predicted because until the plinth is in it won’t be exact. Roof pitch 35 degrees. I want to try to do a 150mm overhang all the way around.

I’m pretty much following your design but with a few differences. I would like the eaves height to be as near the maximum of 2.5m as possible, but understand this is calculated from the wall roof intersection on the top of the roof. I would like as much usable overhead space as possible so will be using your structural plate level ties at each end with the raised ties as high as is structurally sound in between, but omitting these for as many rafters as is safe in the middle (of long axis) of the roof. I think I’m going to put asphalt shingles on the roof, but want the flexibility to change this if required, so I plan to have a substantial roof structure that can support tiles for example if I change my mind. I will be using the roof space for storage that may be quite heavy like you. I understand that this will require a heavy ridge board, and that’s fine.

I’m not sure if a 6.7m overall span can be accommodated in this fashion and if not I have a plan. I intend to put a temporary stud wall across the entire structure (across the short axis) about 5 feet from one end. This is to section off a small cubicle area. Clearly this gives me an opportunity to put a further structural plate level tie within this wall if required. I would rather not do this as it restricts the use of the building when the stud wall is removed, but it won’t be a show stopper, this reduces the length of the span to 5.2 meters.

If it’s relevant I intend to brace the wall sections as you suggest by insetting a piece of 4x1 into the studs diagonally. I’m going to use the roof makeup design from your previous shed design.

I’m clearly no-where near this stage yet Mike, but the only reason to think this through now is that it may change something re wall design etc. and I want to have had the opportunity to consider that.

Again – Thanks for your support here,

Kind regards,

Dan :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 22 Aug 2015, 15:09

9fingers wrote:
Mike G wrote:Dan, give me you length & width across the plates and I'll draw it for you. Obviously I'll need to know which way it has to fall (slope down).



What a generous offer!! top man :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:

Bob


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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Mike G » 25 Aug 2015, 17:38

Dan, I will get to this. Could you jog me along with a PM in a few days time..........but a friend of mine was killed in a cycling accident over the weekend (I found out yesterday), so I am afraid my mind is rather elsewhere at the moment.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 25 Aug 2015, 17:54

Gosh, what a horrid shock. Really sorry to hear that Mike.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Rod » 25 Aug 2015, 18:03

Terrible news Mike - my condolences - wasn't anything to do with the A27 Hawker crash - some cyclists? are believed to have been caught up in that?

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Mike G » 25 Aug 2015, 18:10

Thanks Terry, Rod. No, he was nothing to do with the plane crash.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 25 Aug 2015, 19:16

Mike very sorry to hear your news, our collective thoughts are with you, and those affected by the incident. My pile of concrete in the garden is an irrelevance. My condolences to you at this time.

Kindest Regards,

Dan
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 08 Sep 2015, 21:04

So - made some progress today, despite having other matters I should be attending to....!

Am those who follow others posts religiously here will notice a distinct similarity with another workshop detailed within the Woodhaven posts! I have unashamedly copied parts from others who have greater experience and knowledge than me. To those my sincere thanks.

Again; I have made mistakes but think generally the finished result is of a good standard.

The first mistake is laughable. And I thought worthy of sharing. I wanted to replicate the beautiful brickwork of Mike G's workshop and with only a hazy memory of the thread saw some 'Snowcrete' in Wickes and thought - that's how he must have done it! And hence bought 3 bags. When the lad who helped me do the brickwork turned up this morning he took one look at the cement and asked me 4 times in 5 minutes "was I sure?" And hence my nerve failed and I went back too Wickes and exchanged them. Really glad I did because it was niggling in my mind last night, and I reviewed the post and found out that it wasn't snowcrete that was used! My decision to change my mind is a relief to me now and think I averted an almost complete disaster!

Anyway bricks blocks, cement and sand all collected and prepared.

Image

Straps for the framing completed as per Mikes original plan. SDS drill borrowed from a friend, I bought a 12mm bit and it went through the slab like butter. Standard expanding bolts from wickes and strapping from toolstation. I had plenty so may have overdone it, but essentially its one each side of each door and two on each aspect. I don't really know yet exactly where my studs will be so have left them long so I have the option to nail to a stud or just bend over the plate and nail, and cut off excess. This worked really well and was straightforward, very pleased with it.

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Was pleased with the brickwork which was a team effort. Next time I would probably embark on my own, but thought wise to have help first time.

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Originally I planned to bolt plate to slab, without plinth wall and so I had set stainless J bolts in the slab, these are now not required but we managed to get round them ok, most found themselves in the mortar between bricks and blocks. However there were two that ended up in the gaps for the doors, one in the doorway, and one in the 6 foot double door. Its no drama as will cut off with angle grinder and given their stainless they wont rust and blow the slab. Haven't yet decided what finish to do at the door/step so may yet cover it.

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Pretty pleased with the end result! I just need to fill the gaps between the bricks and blocks tomorrow, or maybe thurs.

Quick question - once finished with the wall there will be a gap of a few weeks/month before framing starts - do I need to cover it up at all or will the elements do it no harm? I have plenty of dpm left if I need to cover it?

Image

Now I need to think about framing...

A builder mate has suggested I build my frames in sections so easier to handle, basically one each end - 3.5 m span and 3 sections for the front - 6.5 m span - basically with a window in each side and door in the middle, and two for the rear - thoughts? I can see this being easier to handle but harder in terms of square plumb and heights etc.

As usual gentlemen any errors omissions changes or guidance suggested will be very gratefully received.

And for anyone interested - Grand Designs new series starts tomorrow at 9 on 4.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby DaveL » 08 Sep 2015, 23:03

Sections sounds like a good idea, I helped Mike to stand the frames for his shop. The wall looks good, should keep the timber clear of the wet.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 08 Sep 2015, 23:29

:text-+1: for sections. Based on my experience a single one for a 6.5m wall would be a four or five man job to get it up on the plinth.

Walls look really good, much better than mine. Also looks like you found some of the elusive 50mm blocks.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby TrimTheKing » 09 Sep 2015, 00:47

Looks good. Re read Mikes thread and he explains that sections actually make it easier to get plumb and square because once you have the first one in place and plumb then all the others that connect to it MUST be plumb!

See Mike, I do listen to you!

Cheers
Mark
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Deejay » 09 Sep 2015, 08:05

Morning Dan

A builder mate has suggested I build my frames in sections

+1 to that.

I built mine in four foot sections based on the width of the OSB used for the lining, to avoid cutting (most of the) boards.

This meant having two studs together every four foot, which I bolted together.

If you do this, check the size of your boards beforehand, to space the studs properly.

The brickwork looks good to me.

Cheers

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Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Rod » 09 Sep 2015, 09:02

Nice brickwork - just puzzled by the DPC?

Constructing in panels - that's what I'm planning to do with mine though the frame design has to accommodate the old shed's weather boarding panels that I'm reusing for the outer skin.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 09 Sep 2015, 09:14

How do you mean Rod?

The black sheeting you can see is the residual edges of the DPM from under the slab, I have yet to cut them off at ground level. I haven't finished with the final levels around the build yet, and its getting too wet to do too much digging, its quite clay based here and so will end up a soggy mess! The DPC will go on top of the bricks/blocks under the framing when that is in place?

In honesty I have left the DPM because I wasn't sure where would be the best place to cut off. It isn't as straightforward as some as the site is actually on a slope and so approx. 50mm of slab will be visible at the front and it will all be covered at the rear so it isn't a one fix solution for the whole build.

Current plan is to cut at ground level at the front and leave the edge of the slab to the air, the rear will be folded over the shuttering and into the trough that I have dug at the rear as a French drain and filled with gravel. I will probably leave the shuttering that sits at the rear as to remove will probably cause me more issues than benefits gained. The sides will be a mix of both given the slope. Does that sound ok?
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby StevieB » 09 Sep 2015, 09:16

Nice. The DPC is simply under the slab and left very long by the look of it.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 09 Sep 2015, 09:25

Cheers all - consensus! - sectional frames it is then.

Bang On Stevie - only left long because I wasn't 100% sure what to do with it!

Do I need to cover all this between now and framing approx. 1 month? Just worried water getting into the gap between the bricks/blocks and freezing come the bad weather as it may blow the wall. Inevitably however well I point this up there is likely to be gaps for water to get in and sit on the impermeable slab etc...
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby TrimTheKing » 09 Sep 2015, 09:30

Dan
Can you get a really big tarp that you could stretch over the top of the brickwork and down to ground level and either screw into the slab or stake it in the grass? That way you would keep it dry but also allow it to breathe.

Cheers
Mark
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 09 Sep 2015, 09:34

TrimTheKing wrote:Dan
Can you get a really big tarp that you could stretch over the top of the brickwork and down to ground level and either screw into the slab or stake it in the grass? That way you would keep it dry but also allow it to breathe.

Cheers
Mark


Mark - Thank you - elegant simplicity! I hadn't thought of the 'breathe' aspect - I have a tarp; will knock up a temporary ridge beam and lob it over the top!
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Rod » 11 Sep 2015, 20:20

I think a big tarp is going to be very difficult to "maintain" especially if you get any strong winds and if it rains you will create a swimming pool?

I also think frosts in the next month are pretty unlikely.

Most of the time I was on construction sites the protective material of choice was hessian sacking. You expected things to get wet but the hessian offered some frost protection.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 11 Sep 2015, 22:15

Cheers Rod, I put a tarp over for a little while and removed during the day, I think its basically dry now; as is all the pointing. Im a bit confused with this as I appreciate water causing issues when the mortar is still wet, but now its dry the water or frost shouldn't cause any issues surely because when its built I wont be doing anything to protect the mortar on the outside of the wall? I cant see us getting a frost for a couple of weeks yet - fingers crossed! Its all learning; I thought hessian was for the rain-water not frost!!

I appreciate its just a plinth wall, but I'm really pleased with it and don't want to damage it, so do I still need to protect it now its dry given that I wont be putting the framing on for a month or so?

Thanks for the pointers!

Dan
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Robert » 11 Sep 2015, 22:49

I'd say nothing to worry about. Water will not hurt it and hard frosts which could (but probably will not) do damage are unlikely.

Cover it or leave it open. I suppose a tarp will keep the leaves off :)

nice job so far.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 11 Sep 2015, 23:18

Cheers Rob - I have no doubt I am a bit precious about it. But having put so much graft into it and it all being a bit new I didnt want to damage it through lack of care with the simple things.

Finished the drainage today! The groundwork has been hard work and I'm glad it pretty much done. I have put a French drain in on the uphill side. and trimmed the DPM - its looking a lot smarter now!

Image

Image

Got a quote for the timber today - was quite surprised how cheap it was, have overspecified as I'm still working out a few things.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 11 Sep 2015, 23:35

Looking really good Dan, as is the lawn behind it :eusa-clap: .

In the pictures your concrete base looks really white in colour, is that just in the pictures or is it equally so in the flesh?

Terry.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby StevieB » 12 Sep 2015, 08:18

Looking god Dan! With regards to covering or not, I would leave it open currently. There is no chance of frost at the moment and you want the water in the mortar to evaporate out. Frost protection is only necessary to prevent any water in the mortar from freezing and expanding, which would then blow the mortar apart and cause if to flake and split. Once it is dry it is fine to leave it to the elements. I have always believed hessian sacking was used to enable air to reach the mortar and water to leave it. Covering it in a substance such as a waterproof tarp or DPM doesn't allow air in and water just sits on the underside of the covering as it has nowhere to go and thus the mortar takes a lot longer to dry out.

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