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Dave's Shed project (progress)

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 03 Oct 2016, 22:05

Great Dave, I thought you'd paws for thought, the mineral wool is nasty stuff, best to wrap up than end up a scratching post...I hope you at least found comfort in a cuppa and a kit-Kat.

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 10 Oct 2016, 19:39

Hi all,

It’s been a lovely couple of weeks up in the shire and that's afforded me two whole weekends of effort without the real threat of rain. My notional move in date of bonfire night has realistically slipped a bit, looking more like a "winter wonderland" Christmas party venue now :)

After cladding the roof the number one task was the floor, via a couple of coats of emulsion on the walls. The first coat was shown in the previous post and i put a second coat on in the dark. Can you tell?
Image

i used 5l on the first two coats and absolutely slathered on a third coat, using a further 5l. Looking a bit better now:
Image

So, on to the floor. Knowing the building wasn't dead square meant i didn't have too many nasty surprises, although it’s easy to see how being off square on a long run could be a disaster, with your finished edge wandering out into the floor or off a joist. I did still have a couple of nervy moments!
I had a couple of very small gaps as two of the short edges, but quickly reasoned out there was nothing i could do to avoid it. So, after a test fit of the first three rows and armed with some PVA and flooring screws I set about laying the floor front to back, minimising the gaps where i could:
Image

Some finished shots from both sides, I’m pretty happy overall with it:
Image
Image

It’s really looking like a good space now, especially with the floor in i have the head height i was looking for and the white paint makes the space feel quite big.

I'm going to paint the floor as it will get bike oil etc. all over it, so any recommendations for floor paint would be great. I'll need to check Chris's workshop thread as I’m sure he used a grey paint on his and the finish looked good.

I also managed to finish my guttering, after my local Wickes taking almost 10 days to get my gutter brackets in. I a delicious twist of irony i forgot i was spacing my brackets at 1000 instead of 500 and duly screwed all my brackets on without thinking :) I had to go back and buy another 4. Still it will withstand baby elephants rolling off the roof now. I poured a kettle of water in and some ended up in the water butt, but the pic does suggest there is a bit of uphill in there somewhere. Just need to monitor it during a heavy downpour:
Image

The good thing is it will afford a lot more protection to the rear until i get the cladding on as the rain was just pouring off the roof and soaking the membrane and battens.

So, next stage is to resolve a couple of cladding details and get the lower couple of courses clad. I'll post in a bit more detail about this separately.

finally, though, i had an unusual visitor to inspect the works on Saturday:
Image

I have never been that close to a robin before in my puff (pun intended :)) at one point whilst sharpening my pencil he was sitting on my trainer watching me. I popped a bit of cracker on the workbench and he came down quite happily to munch it and watch proceedings. Very unusual to see a wild bird so tame.

Anyway, more details and question soon on cladding, but things are coming together!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 10 Oct 2016, 19:55

You're getting there Dave!

Now, take that gutter (and brackets) off, put the bracket at the end furthest from the downpipe as high as it will go, and the one at the downpipe some 25 or 30mm down from that level, string a line between them, and refix. That's an order!! :lol: ;) Seriously, you really don't want water pooling in a gutter. That's where that lump of moss will trap those leaves, and the silt will build up behind, and the ice behind that..........etc. Some wise conservation architect once said "properly control all the water falling on the roof and the building won't fall down on your watch". Don't ever lay gutters horizontally.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 10 Oct 2016, 20:52

Mike G wrote:Now, take that gutter (and brackets) off, put the bracket at the end furthest from the downpipe as high as it will go, and the one at the downpipe some 25 or 30mm down from that level, string a line between them, and refix. That's an order!! :lol: ;) ..Don't ever lay gutters horizontally.


Cheers Mike :) now I know I am an amateur, but I'm not a rank amateur:) I did stringline and fix between the two points and it is as high as I can get it on the non downpipe side, but I only accounted for a 15mm drop following the 3mm/m rule online (not so sure about that rank amateur status now :) ) The guttering does look odd in that pic but im sure it's not running uphill, but there is scope to drop it further so I'll re examine it before the rain sets in!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 11 Oct 2016, 20:41

So, with a snippet of daylight left after work today I set about relining my guttering. Sadly Mike was on the money when i removed the section opposite the downpipe and the water ran back towards me :(

After removing the first attempt i ignored all the precise measurement i'd done before and stuck the gutter hard up against the underside of the roof trim, then dropped it a smidge. I relined the string line from the bottom of the gutter brackets, instead of the top as i did before. Here's a pic of the new line, you can see the mark where the bracket was before. Tell you, thats a 1 in 5 now :)

Image

After a dod of silicone to seal all my old screw holes (and also to cover the screw heads holding the fascia board on) and refixing everything, the net result is this. Sorry its a bit dark, anything beyond 1830 now is a write-off.It coped fine with a hose-load of water anyway.

Image

I also picked up some Leyland Frigate grey floor paint, so that will be going down before the weekend hopefully. No progress this weekend as i'm away, so more updates as they come!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 11 Oct 2016, 21:27

Oh, one other thing, after posting this I realised I'd left my impact driver on the shed roof! :)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Malc2098 » 11 Oct 2016, 21:49

:lol:

Well sorted!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby RogerS » 12 Oct 2016, 06:58

It could be the camera angle but in that last picture, isn't the rain coming off the roof simply going to track round the radius and down the wall as opposed to falling into the gutter ?
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 13 Oct 2016, 20:27

Good work Dave, the inside looks smashing all painted up, for a moment I thought you'd snuck ahead of me , until I realised you've still some cladding to do ...best get cracking before winter kicks in.

PS. I popped some 50p leaf guards in the down pipe openings.




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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 18 Oct 2016, 21:34

Sorry for the delay in responding chaps.

Roger, there is a small gap between the gutter drip board and the corner detail, so the water drips into the gutter. A bit too well, in fact. I filled my 100l water but in a matter of days with the rain recently, so i'm going to have to look at alternatives for getting rid of it. The water butt might be fine in the summer, but it will be constantly overflowing if its like this.

JM - I've got the floor painted too, second coat applied last night. Here's a pic.
Image

Sadly, we had a bit of wind and rain last night and the tarp i tacked over the door came loose and the rain lightly marked the first few inches inside the door. Then one of the local cats decided to wander in whilst it was raining and proceeded to leave muck and pawprints in my drying paint! A bit miffed if i'm honest, but luckily the cat didn't seem to get far before hightailing it out of the shed. i dont have enough paint to do another full coat, so will just try and cover it up as best i can. I know there's no point in getting too precious about it.

So, i need some advice to resolve some cladding details as it's been a nagging issue for a while and not having a plan to make the exterior weather proof is worrying me. I have 3 interfaces to worry about:

1. corner details (cement board for bottom 2 rows, then waney edge larch for the rest)
2. door details (as above)
3. Window details (all timber)

The corner details i think are sussed, see below. Basically screwing a 75mm larch corner post (Dark brown) to some 38*25 battens(minty green) on the edge of the building, then butt the larch up to it. 75mm sounded like a lot but by the time you add the battens, 19mm larch boards and the overlap, i think it will look ok.
For the cement board I've got some 25mm pvc trim to cover it. it might look a bit rubbish but we'll see. If it does i can use it at the roof fascia board joints.
Image

The door details are proving a bit more tricky. Originally i wanted the doors to open out the way for space reasons. However, If i have cladding totalling 75mm on the outside and i try to open the door out through that, it will foul somewhere on the doors path. The other option is to mount the doors on the cladding fixture, but that seems pointless as i have door frames in place for that. So, then i thought about having both doors open in the way, which wouldn't be terrible because they'll both open inwards to the left and towards a wall. Again, we'll have that 75mm cladding to go through before getting to the door, so it might look a bit sunken into the frame, but it will open inwards and i can open it >90 degrees i think.

One thing i can't really afford to do (and i'm kicking myself for only just realising this) is reduce the width of the doorways by too much. I've made both door 861mm wide for reasons lost to the world, but i wanted 850mm wide doors to fit modern mountain bike bars through. I'm sure Mike will be along to suggest fitting some drops to solve the problem ;) but i dont want to reduce the door width any more than i have to. I know if i open the doors inwards then i can add weatherproofing and door seals etc , but dont want these taking away too much usable width. If i open them out the way how do i mount the doors on the frame, but clear the cladding and get a door that can open at least 90 degrees!

I also need to consider what happens to water that runs down the door, because i have to shed that off over the front of the cladding.

A bit of a pickle all in all, but one i'm sure is resolvable. I am really annoyed that i'm this far in and details i know i should have resolved before i started are holding me back, but hey ho. I just have to find the best solution.

My first suggested solution for the cladding is shown in the pic above. I haven't figured out the doors yet, but once i know which way they are going to open i'll work out the details. So, as it stands in the pic above i've taken a 75mm larch post, flush mounted it to the edge of the doorway and planned to rebate 35-50 mm out of the larch post to accommodate butting the larch against it. I'll probably run the timber all the way to the bottom of the door frame (not as shown in the pic) and butt the cement board 2nd layer against it. I'd then create some sort of door threshold to cover the top of the bottom cement board plank. I'd mirror this on the upright on the opposite side. It looks a bit chunky but i dont think anything thinner would last as well?

I'm not even sure if this is making sense any more, so please let me know if i'm talking gibberish and i'll try to illustrate it better..

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 18 Oct 2016, 22:23

ScotlandtheDave wrote:I've made both door 861mm wide for reasons lost to the world, but i wanted 850mm wide doors to fit modern mountain bike bars through. I'm sure Mike will be along to suggest fitting some drops to solve the problem ;)


My bike bars are actually 750mm wide, so I do have some room to spare. I haven't just bolted a scaffolding pole to the forks ;)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2016, 08:33

If you want the doors to open out and go more than 90 degrees without fouling the cladding, then you need parliament hinges, or an equivalent, which move the pivot point outside of the line of the face of the door. If the pin sticks out, say, 30mm, then the door will clear a 60mm obstacle when it opens 180 degrees.

I'll have to have a look at the rest later.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 19 Oct 2016, 08:37

Thanks Mike,

For reference i have no burning desire for the doors to open a particular way. In many cases i think it might be better if the doors open inwards, but you lose some floorspace that way. Not a concern for the bigger workshop space, but might restrict a bit on the smaller space. I just didn't find much on the web about the best way to configure doors within shed spaces and how to mount them with the cladding. Your input will be appreciated as always :)

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby RogerS » 19 Oct 2016, 11:41

If it were me I'd go for outward opening doors for the same reasons that you mention. It's also a lot easier manoeuvring long or awkward shaped items in and out.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 26 Oct 2016, 17:34

Couple of small updates for you, although i am trying to shift focus to resolving how the cladding will work to get the building largely watertight before the weather turns really bad. Mikes most recent update on his house gave me a great insight into how it should be done, so i'm beavering away.

However, to delight and entertain:

I painted and fitted my skirting. Unlikely to win me any piecework as a finishing joiner, but it'll do.
Image

ps. look how manky the floor is already!

I also fitted doors, albeit the flimsiest doors in the world. A screw in the OSB means i can hook and rehook without wasting staples and saves me putting staples through the membrane repeatedly:
Image

I also temporarily fitted my window as i was sick of the strips of membrane flapping around. Makes it a lot more weatherproof and lets me visualise how the cladding will interface. a big flap of leftover EPDM provides a bit of sealing and lets water drain off. Pretty good fit all round, quite chuffed.
Image

Next stage is to nail down the cladding interfaces and just get the stuff ordered - i've been at it long enough i just need to start or it will be lambing time before its done!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 28 Oct 2016, 13:23

Nice skirt Dave...or is it a kilt? (boom-Tish)

I like the grey skirting, might copy that detail myself

I deliberated and stalled at various points and in particular on the cladding detail around the windows. You're right to crack on through, there might be a bit of 2 steps forward 1 back, but it'll make sense in the end...keep thinking about water and where it's gonna go, could sit, can it dry out? IE. is there ventilation? I did post a PDF link to cladding detailing around windows/openings, I think (*scratches head*). Let me know if you'd like me to dig it out.

Water is your nemesis or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby RogerS » 28 Oct 2016, 14:52

Jimmy Mack wrote:...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....


:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby cadman_4 » 28 Oct 2016, 14:54

Guess we're talking arcade games and the like


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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Doug » 28 Oct 2016, 16:37

There was an end of level boss on each level of "streets of Rage" I seem to remember, though I've a feeling that was back in the 80's :shock:
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 29 Oct 2016, 18:21

RogerS wrote:
Jimmy Mack wrote:...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....


:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.



Ah... yes, a bit of a tenuous link to IT, cadman_4 & Doug are right...with the gaming ref.

Here's a Wiki link ...but I'm sure you've better things to do :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 30 Oct 2016, 09:15

Jimmy Mack wrote:
RogerS wrote:
Jimmy Mack wrote:...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....


:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.



Ah... yes, a bit of a tenuous link to IT, cadman_4 & Doug are right...with the gaming ref.

Here's a Wiki link ...but I'm sure you've better things to do :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)


I spent many, many hours playing Streets of Rage as a kid!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (Cladding)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 07 Nov 2016, 21:55

I’m rueing the lack of daylight now, wish I had started earlier. I basically only have weekends, and not many of them left now before Christmas! However, not much I can do about that now. I hate working under time constraints, because that’s when silly mistakes happen :)

So, I ordered my cladding last week, both Cement Board and Timber. I’ve gone with C18 slate Grey Cedral lap weatherboard, with corner trim and outrageously expensive paint. I’ve also got 75 slices of Larch tree coming in a couple of weeks, so need to get the cement board fitted first.
The first challenge to overcome was how to cut the Cedral cement board. The options appeared to be expensive and dusty saw blade, cheap Score and Snap knife, or expensive purpose built guillotine. However, the more I started looking at the guillotine I was convinced the unit was the same as the myriad of laminate flooring cutters available online. A quick Amazon Warehouse purchase later and I had a new cutter for £24, despite the fact it was labelled as used. Was it a success though? Read on :shock:

First up, the Foreman cleared us to start work:
Image

Then it was removing the battens on the side, as I’d placed them too high. Annoyingly the stainless screws I used liked to snap the heads off, so it was a bit tough removing the old battens, but I managed it without any damage and refixed.
Image

Next up, a crude but effective jig to create my packer strips for the bottom board, I cut loads which was just as well as they liked snapping down the grain. Image

Fillets fixed – can anyone spot a problem yet? Image

Next up I had to cut the corner pieces to size and wanted a nice clean edge, so clamped it up in some waste wood and used my evolution rage saw to cut the aluminium. The finish was almost as good as the factory cut, very happy indeed.
Image

There’s not a lot holding the corners up, but there’s not a lot of need to. Anyone spot the flat batten tops? Idiot. Don’t know what I was thinking, probably worrying about the setting sun… Nice clean cut though 8-) Image

So, just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse, I tried my laminate cutter. It was a triumph!
Image

The cut was as good as the factory edge, so chuffed indeed with it. A slather of paint and it was time for a test fit, which was broadly ok, nay good, but the top board wasn’t set dead level, which makes me wonder if the bottom board was. There was a sliver of batten poking below the bottom board, the corner pieces seemed to be at different heights, the battens were cut flat at the corners and worst of all, I forgot to fit my insect mesh…
Image

So, next bit of daylight it’s all coming off to get sorted properly. The good thing is I know what to do and how I’ll do it, which should speed up the process for the other three sides. I am slightly nervous that with the strange levels I’ve encountered to date that it will be difficult to maintain perfect levels across the board, but I am splitting hairs now. My trusty laser level will help too..

Overall though I’m quite pleased with the look and think it will work nicely against the larch. I’ll update again once the wood is here!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Nov 2016, 22:05

Looking good and picking up tips for my impending!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Dan0741 » 07 Nov 2016, 23:13

Oooooh Dave its hotting up now matey! Sorry if I missed it but are you painting the Larch? I did but have since felt the weathered look would be quite appealing. :D
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 07 Nov 2016, 23:24

Thanks guys.

Dan I'm leaving the larch untreated, we'll see how it looks in a years time!

I did laugh at your comment, things are hotting up just as it's cooling down for winter
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