It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 20:43

Mike's Workshop Build (Extension & slates)

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (boarding, and stupid cock-up)

Postby Mike G » 25 Sep 2014, 21:35

I guess I should post this photo, as it shows some of the progress since my last posting. I have got up to plate height all round, with just the gables to board. I can't start boarding those until I have the undercloak in place, because I want a really simple junction between boards and roof, without a bargeboard (I really don't like barge boards).........

Image

My other thread shows that I have started demolishing the house, so that I can have the slates off the roof to do the verges of the shed (and thus allow me to finish the boarding).
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (boarding, and stupid cock-up)

Postby Aledafis » 25 Sep 2014, 21:39

Thanks for the welcome guys! Yes I understand that I'd need planning permission to go over 4m in height, but didn't know that a workshop would be subject to building regs, I was hoping to do avoid that hassle!

I'll start a new thread over the weekend to avoid taking this one further off topic.

Thanks
Aled
Aledafis
Seedling
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 21 Sep 2014, 07:34
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (boarding, and stupid cock-up)

Postby angelboy » 26 Sep 2014, 13:32

Mike G wrote:Hi Terry.

.....Don't forget that the external battens are a critical part of the construction. They aren't there to get the boards to the right depth. They are there to create a ventilated void (a cavity, if you like), protecting the frame and the insulation from moisture, both from driven rain that finds a way past the boarding, and from condensation. Along with the plinth, battening out from the frame is what separates this form of permanent structure from the temporary sheds that most people put up with. As I've said many times before, a plinth, and a battened out zone behind the boards, makes the difference between a shed and workshop.
.......



I used Permavent breather membrane - which can be used for roofs and walls - and their technical drawings show options of with and without ventilation cavities for warm 'roof' type structures. I chose not to batten out the walls based on these drawings so I guess time will tell. It is only a shed for the short term - might be a summerhouse in years to come, who knows.

Great WIP by the way. I used some of your ideas from the shed build but compared to this I wish I'd have seen it sooner. I'm just painting up the inside now and then I'll post some WIP pictures. I know, from your project, that I've made some mistakes but I'll have to tackle them down the line.
angelboy
Seedling
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 23 Sep 2014, 22:02
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 11 Oct 2014, 15:23

My dodgy back has relented a bit, and I got a few hours in on the workshop today. Taking it very gently indeed.

I bought some new slates, 250 x 500, to use as undercloaking. If you don't know what this means, the photos will make it clear in a minute. First job was to mark them and cut then in half length-ways. Marking slates is easy: you scratch them with a nail, so I made a quick gauge:

Image

.......and scratched a line up the middle of all of slates.

Image

Then using a mini angle grinder I cut them all:

Image

The next decision is exactly how much overhang you want. I worked this out, then found a piece of wood that wide to act as a guide........put it underneath the undercloak against the batten, and tap the undercloak into position, flush with the face of your guide. Prior to placing the undercloak, though, you need to trim the overhanging battens to the right length, and cut off the spare underfelt/ sarking/ roofing membrane.

I mentioned previously that I don't nail the battens at the end of the roof, and it is because of this next step. You need to bend the battens up slightly, insert the slate under the membrane and the battens, then let the battens back down to hold the slate in place. I found it easiest to use wedges to hold the battens up:

Image

Next decision: which way up do you want the undercloak slates? Slates are guillotined to size, which leaves a very clean cut edge on one side, and a more rustic edge on the other. I had no hesitation in showing the more rustic edge downward (the top will be covered by mortar). Of course, the edge I have just cut was ragged and horrible, and that went to the inside where it will never be seen again.

Next decision: how far do you need the lowest slate to overhang the rafter foot? I erred on the generous side, and allowed for 20mm "fascia" (it isn't a proper one), and 50mm to get to halfway across the gutter, both measured horizontally rather than down the slope of the roof. Put your first slate undercloak in place, pull out the wedges, adjust, and repeat all the way up the verge, nailing the battens down to the last rafter once you have 2 or 3 slates in place (after a final adjustment). It is possible to nail through slate, although there is a risk of cracking it. However, I had about 15mm of rafter to aim a nail at without going through the slate, so did that instead.

Image

Image

Image

The top slate will need to be cut to length.

Now you can see why this was the next step in the building process: at last, I have an edge to work to for my boards up the gable.

Image

Back still OK, but stiffening up.........so I plodded on, cutting boards, painting the ends, offering up, checking horizontal, nailing them in place.

Image

Image

This is definitely the look I am after: a really slim and simple detail. I am not a big fan of barge boards, which weren't often used on vernacular out buildings in the area. Modern houses use a cream or grey cementitious board as an undercloak, but that just isn't a pretty detail, and would be inappropriate in this situation. You can use slate under tiled rooves, too, and a really nice look is a clay plain tile used as an undercloak on a plain tile or pantile roof........but you have to think about that a bit first, as the tiles are thick and don't fit under the battens.

Now, where's the paracetamol?
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby old » 11 Oct 2014, 15:42

Like a lot of us i have a bad back which hurts on the left side ( since i got what you described as shot there) and can also hurt higher up above the base of the spine when it gets tired, i use a weight lifters belt from ebay with a velcro fasten and find it helps a lot as well as reminding you if your moving or stretching more than you should and i recommend it.
User avatar
old
New Shoots
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 27 Jul 2014, 07:20
Location: Nantwich Cheshire
Name: Chris

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Wizard9999 » 11 Oct 2014, 15:56

Mike

Sorry to hear your back has been giving you trouble, but glad you are feeling good enough to restart work on the workshop - have to say I was a little upset that you were letting something as trivial as the place you live get in the way :lol:.

As you say the slate under cloak is a very simple detail, which I think looks very good - as the great man once said "less is more".

Terry.
Wizard9999
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 08 Aug 2014, 11:51
Location: Eversley, Hampshire
Name: Lord Radford

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 11 Oct 2014, 16:42

Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I have lived with this for 20 years.

Thanks Terry......sorry to have disappointed for the last few weeks. ;)
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Phil » 12 Oct 2014, 07:15

Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!

https://www.instagram.com/phil_pretoria/
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 12 Oct 2014, 08:22

Phil wrote:Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil


Phil, that will be "pointed up" with a strong (3:1) sand/ cement mortar. Which is why the battens are cut 15 or 20 mm back from the outside face.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 12 Oct 2014, 08:28

Mike G wrote:
Phil wrote:Mike that looks very good.

What do you about the gap between bottom slate and the one on the top? (batton gap)

Cheers
Phil


Phil, that will be "pointed up" with a strong (3:1) sand/ cement mortar. Which is why the battens are cut 15 or 20 mm back from the outside face.


This is what it looks like with tiles:

http://www.oxfordroofer.com/image_library/library/o/oxf/oxfordroofer.com/orig_slide0008_image024.jpg

That photo shows a cementitious board as the undercloak.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Phil » 12 Oct 2014, 18:31

Thanks for that.
Very interresting way of doing it.

What is the lifetime of the cement mortar mix?

Cheers
Phil
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!

https://www.instagram.com/phil_pretoria/
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby 9fingers » 12 Oct 2014, 18:48

Phil wrote:Thanks for that.
Very interresting way of doing it.

What is the lifetime of the cement mortar mix?

Cheers
Phil


Mine has been up for 32 years now Phil and just showing a couple of cracks if that is anything to go by.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 12 Oct 2014, 18:53

It can be at least 130 years, Phil. I worked on a project last year, a house built in 1880, where the verges were still 100%.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Stargazer » 13 Oct 2014, 08:36

It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.
Stargazer
New Shoots
 
Posts: 177
Joined: 04 Sep 2014, 15:19
Location: West Oxfordshire
Name: Ian

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Wizard9999 » 13 Oct 2014, 09:15

Stargazer wrote:It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.


:text-+1: Mike, if nothing else your legacy will be a whole generation of workshops that outlast the builders!
Wizard9999
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 08 Aug 2014, 11:51
Location: Eversley, Hampshire
Name: Lord Radford

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Resumed......gable)

Postby Mike G » 13 Oct 2014, 12:16

Stargazer wrote:It is good to see such attention to the detail, so thank you from me for showing all the steps and how to pictures rather than just the major steps as I am sure it does slow you down somewhat.

Ian L.


No problem Ian.

Wizard9999 wrote: :text-+1: Mike, if nothing else your legacy will be a whole generation of workshops that outlast the builders!


Ooooh, I hope so! :)
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2014, 19:18

One last little burst of activity on the workshop before work on the extension starts in earnest on Monday.

I wanted to board up the gable between the big roof and the small roof, and to do that, you need the lead in place. However, the lead would normally go in at the same time as the slates (if using soakers), or immediately afterwards (if using a cover flashing). However, because I won't be slating this for many months, I have to do things in slightly the wrong order, which required a little bit of thinking. Firstly, I realised I would need some temporary packing above the battens to create the space needed under the lead by the slates. Secondly, because the lead will have to be folded up out of the way when I fix the slates, and because I don't know exactly how thick the slates will sit on the roof, I decided to roll the bend in the lead rather than have a tight right angle bend. So, I just pushed it by hand over the edge of a scaffold board, and didn't dress it at all.

Code 4 lead, 240 wide (80mm upstand, 160mm over the slates). I used 2 or 3 clout nails to pin it in place, right in the top few mm of lead.

Image

Then it was just a question of cutting about a dozen identical boards, painting the ends, and carefully locating them before nailing. The aim is to nail into the wood without going through the lead.

Image

The big complication with lead flashing and feather edge board is what happens at the bottom. The lead has to go from being under the boards to being above the boards. Luckily, this junction is necessarily at the level of the guttering, and so the worst of the bodge is hidden. Anyway, you see what I did here, with the lead just being roughly folded by hand, with the final dressing occurring after the gutters have been fitted:

Image

Right, that's that side done: Now to do the back:

Image

The back is easier because the lead extends past the side wall due to the big roof overhang. No messing around at the bottom:

Image

At the top, there are 3 layers of lead. The 2 flashings, a cover piece (saddle), which has the vertical element cut to allow the horizontals to dress down the roof either side, and finally, a small piece to cover that vertical cut, and this is dressed over the saddle. A proper old fashioned roofer would weld the last 2 pieces into one proper saddle. I don't have the equipment or the skills to weld lead.

Image

Then the boards:

Image

Finally the little triangle at the top. My rear boards arrived about 6 or 8mm out of level with the fron boards, which I was quite please with. You have no reference point which would enable you to keep the boards exactly in line with each other on opposite sides of the roof. A little adjustment as you near the top and everything works out OK.

Image

Then I boarded the northern gable and did the undercloaking.

Image

My estimate of slates required worked for all the undercloaks worked out pretty well. This is all I had left over!!!

Image

My estimate of boards wasn't so good, though, and I ran out going up the gable. I have to go and fetch one single board tomorrow, which is a bit annoying.

Next, I cleaned up the reclaimed window and stuck it in...4 screws with the heads left proud, so I can take it out easily in 6 or 12 months and replace with a decent window:

Image

Image

We've done a bit of painting recently too, and stripped the temporary plastic off from covering the pilinth. The finished look is starting to emerge.

Image

Image

Image

There's still a bit of painting to do on the rear elevations:

Image

My wife will be finishing that in the next few days, whilst I start work on the foundations for the extension.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Frank » 19 Oct 2014, 20:20

Hi Mike I've been following your build with interest & am enjoying it, thanks for sharing.

Your progress this weekend looks good but I hope you don't mine me mentioning that your lead flashing looks to to be have been installed in one long piece either side of the ridge, it should be done in lengths of 5' with overlaps.

I only mention this as I'd hate to think of you having problems with the lead at a later date due to expansion & contraction.

Kind regards,

Frank.
Frank
Seedling
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 20 Sep 2014, 11:21
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2014, 20:24

You're dead right, Frank, but I took the view that with it being a cover flashing (ie one edge not trapped), that 8 feet wasn't too much of a risk. If it moves, I can't see what harm it could do. Altogether a different thing in a gutter or a valley. But you are correct, and I should have said as much in my commentary.

Mike
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby TrimTheKing » 19 Oct 2014, 20:44

Looking good Mike. Question for you, and I know it's probably best asked in a separate thread.

I have kind of copied your layout but only taken the smaller section in from the front, keeping the rear wall at the same level. I am also planning to build in brick, so in my instance how do I go about doing that small bit of wall up the diagonal section without having to build a full wall inside and lose all that space?

Picture probably helps more than my words, and I will move this to another thread so as not to take yours OT.

Image

Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7567
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Peter Sefton » 19 Oct 2014, 20:45

I almost mentioned the length of the lead myself. I didn't because I thought you had it covered as the rest of the build has been sooooo good.
Nice WIP and great to watch a very similar build as my own school workshop.
Peter Sefton

Practice makes perfect - but a good tip from one who knows saves timber, time and tools

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.com

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk
Peter Sefton
New Shoots
 
Posts: 88
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 22:27
Location: Upton Upon Severn, Worcestershire
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2014, 20:58

TrimTheKing wrote:.......
I have kind of copied your layout but only taken the smaller section in from the front, keeping the rear wall at the same level. I am also planning to build in brick, so in my instance how do I go about doing that small bit of wall up the diagonal section without having to build a full wall inside and lose all that space?......


You'll need a piece of steel in there Mark, which will mean a pier on the back wall, and some careful detailing at the front so that it doesn't appear on the outside. A structural engineer will design that.

If you are using my design, but doing it in brick, how thick are your walls? Don't forget that to fall below the Building Regs threshold, you need your floor area (not footprint..........but the area inside the external walls) to be under 30 sq. m. So, if your walls are thicker than mine, you can make the external dimensions bigger than mine.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby 9fingers » 19 Oct 2014, 21:12

Mark,

One way to avoid the steel, is to make the parallelogram section in timber and tile hang the outside to match/contrast the roof tiles. The rafter under the stud section would almost certainly need to be doubled up to take the weight of the tile hanging.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2014, 21:37

Have a look at the scale drawing, Mark. Imagine some 6 inches upstand of lead above the abutment roof. If there is much brick showing above that I'll be surprised, and it may, therefore, be best to make the structure as Bob describes, or to do it boarded. If the total gape between rooves is less than, say, 300 or 350mm, then you might do it entirely in lead, in which case the wall can be timber.

As an aside, have you considered doing the "extension" part of your workshop in a contrasting material (black boards spring to mind, in light of your house finish)?
Last edited by Mike G on 19 Oct 2014, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Mike's Workshop Build (Boarding, lead & window)

Postby Frank » 19 Oct 2014, 22:20

Mike G wrote:If it moves, I can't see what harm it could do. Altogether a different thing in a gutter or a valley. But you are correct, and I should have said as much in my commentary.

Mike


I agree in a gutter or valley the damage would would be more extensive as excess movement leads to cracking of the lead & costly replacement, coincidentally I inspected such a gutter last week.

I've tended to find with cover flashing that the movement causes the lead to pull out of the abutment, as such the lead isn't damaged just needs refitting, though in your case as you've quite rightly taken the membrane up the abutment any dislodging of the lead shouldn't lead to water ingress.

I look forward to your future progress.

Kind regards,


Frank.
Frank
Seedling
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 20 Sep 2014, 11:21
Name:

PreviousNext

Return to Workshop Builds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests