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Mark's Workshop/Garage

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Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 07 Mar 2017, 23:03

Ok, here we go - this is the start of my build! A little bit of background can be found on my introduction here http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2496

With the help of all you kind people I hope to design and build a garage come workshop. Although my experience is limited I have done a fair bit of research over the last year so hopefully I wont come across as a complete numpty!

Before I go any further, I thought it would be useful to briefly talk about the intended use of the building.
The building will primarily be a workshop, somewhere I can tinker away fabricating, repairing, building whatever my latest project is. It will offer storage for all my fishing gear, tools and materials. It will also be somewhere that I can work on my Land Rover, therefore it needs to be tall enough to accommodate a large 4x4.

I do not wish to get building control involved although I am prepared to apply for planning permission.

The back of my garden has vehicular access, and currently has a horrid prefab garage. The plan is to replace this with a lovely timber building (Mike G style) built by yours truly! Everyone loves photos right? Well here is what I have to work with site-wise:

Image

View looking into the back of the garden (concrete post mid way along garage on right is the boundary):

Image

And to help put the two photos into context:

Image

After much deliberation, I think the best way to site a building as close to the 30m2 building regs threshold is something like this. Something in the region of 4.5m wide by 6.5m deep. It also keeps the building over 1m from boundary (to allow construction from non-combustible materials without BR).

Image

Apologies for the crude drawings etc! As you will no doubt learn, I'm not the sharpest chisel in the toolbox! :lol:

Next comes the tricky bit, the actual design. Stay tuned!...
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby 9fingers » 07 Mar 2017, 23:52

How about designing in a pit area in the floor to help with working on the Landy?

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Mar 2017, 00:24

Plans looking good so far. Similar approach to my 'shop build without the vehicle access, using plans like that for the PP.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 08 Mar 2017, 08:33

Well you will certainly be improving the view of the end of your garden!

That's a nice size building you are planning, and having decent access will really help. One poor soul here had about a 60 or 80 metres journey, through an existing garage, to get to their workshop location.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 08 Mar 2017, 09:30

9fingers wrote:How about designing in a pit area in the floor to help with working on the Landy?

Bob


That's something I've thought about Bob, however my feeling is I've got by with a jack and axle stands until now and of course most 4x4s have decent ground clearance even before you've jacked them up.

I think for speed and simplicity I will just have a standard concrete floor - I guess a pit is something that could be added a few years down the line should the need for one arise.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 08 Mar 2017, 09:32

Malc2098 wrote:Plans looking good so far. Similar approach to my 'shop build without the vehicle access, using plans like that for the PP.


Thanks Mark! Yes, you're right - I am familiar with your build, I've had a good nosey at it! :P
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 08 Mar 2017, 11:25

Mike G wrote:Well you will certainly be improving the view of the end of your garden!

That's a nice size building you are planning, and having decent access will really help. One poor soul here had about a 60 or 80 metres journey, through an existing garage, to get to their workshop location.


Indeed Mike! The garden/house is all awful! Houses in the area were built in the 50s by the council and it appears that most of the original tenants ended up buying their homes. These people are now elderly and a new generation have been gradually moving in, consequently most of the houses require modernisation/tidying up.
I believe the property does have potential though, lots of space (inside and outside) and a great location.
We've owned the house for around 18 months and have pretty much completed refurbishment/modernisation (we had a seperate toilet to the bathroom!) of the upstairs. The downstairs we plan to tackle when the kids are a little older - after all, the inevitable accidents/incidents wont hurt as much while it's in it's current state!
So with the upstairs done, the plan now is to address the garden which of course includes my workshop! :D

The rear access is very useful indeed! I imagine your journey added many an hour to your build! :cry:


Anyone think I talk too much?! :oops:
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 Mar 2017, 15:41

Looks like a great space to build in Mark.

Is that a raised playhouse at the RHS of the first picture?

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 09 Mar 2017, 09:34

Yes Mark, one of the reasons the house appealed to me when we viewed it was the potential for a garden workshop with access by car. That garage on the left though, 'blocking' 1/3 of the back boundary is a bit of a pain though!

It is indeed a raised playhouse, quite a substantial structure! However I have only witnessed the neighbour's children playing in it once since I've lived here!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby TrimTheKing » 09 Mar 2017, 12:29

spearos wrote:It is indeed a raised playhouse, quite a substantial structure! However I have only witnessed the neighbour's children playing in it once since I've lived here!


Ah I thought it was yours. Looks great, mine would be out in all weathers if they had one of those!!

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 09 Mar 2017, 22:09

Onto the basic design.

I’ve thought about this a lot, researched and considered many ideas and have come up with a rough design which I would really appreciate feedback on. First of all though there are a few things worth noting regarding my needs.

Land Rovers are tall vehicles, my Discovery is just under 2m tall and there’s a strong possibility I could own another Defender at a later date. LWB Defenders are around 2.15m tall. This means I’m looking at a door opening of around 2.3m and to have at least 2.5m internally.

The other thing worth noting is that my garden slopes slightly upwards, and I’m mindful of the visual impact of the size of the building.

I think the obvious choice is a dual pitched roof, with the ridge running front to back. A dual pitch roof will give me some extra storage and the ridge running front to back will mean the spans are shorter for the roof construction. A possible benefit of the ridge this way is also that the vehicle door lintel can extend into the gable.

With the visual impact in mind, I guess the best option would be to keep the eaves as low as possible and a high pitch on the roof.

To achieve these dimensions and roof design, applying for planning permission is surely inevitable, because the building will be over 2.5m high and within 2m of the boundary. Unless of course someone has a really, really clever solution?!

Here’s a little sketch of what I’m thinking:

Image

If my calculations are correct then an eaves height of 2.3m and a ridge height of 3.8m will give me the dimensions I require. The door lintel extending into the gable (above eaves height)I mentioned earlier, something like this (obviously not to scale or anything, just to demonstrate what I mean):

Image


If my calculations are correct the 2.3 eaves (top of wall plate) and 3.8m ridge will give a rafter length of around 2.7m (with 100mm overhang, 50mm seat cut (both subject to change?) and not taking the ridge board thickness into consideration). Mounting the joists (collar ties?) 1/3 along the rafters (0.9m) would then give me an internal height of around 2.7m.

Image

Have I got it all wrong? Please give me your thoughts?
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2017, 08:28

I don't know if I've missed it by skim reading, but what is your roofing material? That choice is what sets your minimum pitch, which is what determines the height of the ridge above the eaves. Don't forget that you can have a vaulted ceiling too (ie no joists/ ties at plate level with a bit of clever design, so it is merely a question of being able to fit a big enough opening into the facade.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2017, 09:07

Quick sketch with roof set at the minimum for slate (22.5 degrees):

Image

It looks like you'll need Planning Permission unless you go for a flat roof, or unless you can get it away from your boundaries a bit more. Don't be scared of Planning Permission. Rather get the building you want than settle for something second best to avoid going through the process.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Deejay » 10 Mar 2017, 10:06

Morning Mark

There is a guide to planning permission (from Cornwall Council) in the Dropbox.

Open the link in the top right of the screen.

Open the folder 'Permitted development guides'

The file 'English permitted development guide' can be downloaded from there.

I'd check with your local authority before using it to build something, to make sure that all the information is still up to date.

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 10 Mar 2017, 13:16

You didn’t miss it Mike - I haven’t mentioned roofing material yet. I was thinking about initially using Onduline corrugated sheets for speed and simplicity. With the intention of ‘upgrading’ the material to something more durable such as tiles at a later date. Of course, this will mean ‘future proofing’ the roof structure by using larger timbers to cope with the weight of a tiled roof.
If I remember correctly the design I posted would have a pitch of about 24 degrees.

That’s a lovely sketch there Mike, love the Landy image! I have read about vaulted roofs – I understand they require a ridge beam, something bulky to take the weight? What discouraged me was that a ridge beam needs adequate support either end and at one end I have a great big span for the door.
However an overall height of just over 3m would be very nice, I’m liking your idea a lot! Please tell me more?

Something else I should add is I plan to have an insulated aluminium roller shutter door and these require around 350-400mm headroom, which further complicates things in that there needs to be sufficient space between the top of the opening and the rafter/roof?

Mike G wrote:It looks like you'll need Planning Permission unless you go for a flat roof, or unless you can get it away from your boundaries a bit more. Don't be scared of Planning Permission. Rather get the building you want than settle for something second best to avoid going through the process.


I totally agree with your comments on planning permission. There’s no way I can move the build >2m from the boundary, and I really don’t fancy a flat roof so I’m pretty much set on applying – I‘ve looked at a successful application for large garage just a few doors down from me and it doesn’t look too involved.


Dave, many thanks for the heads up on the guide – I will take a look.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2017, 15:27

I always use an image of a LR when designing garages, because it is the tallest vehicle one has to generally design a domestic garage for. Remember to allow for a roofrack if you have one!

My previous sketch, Mark, was to show the minimum height achievable, rather than suggest a way of building your workshop. It shows pretty clearly that you aren't going to get under the Permitted Development ridge height. If you aren't going to achieve that, and thus require Planning Permission, then you should design an altogether more comfortable roof height, particularly as you now have to accommodate a roller shutter door. I've had a quick play around:

Image

This is now an altogether different building, nearly 4.5 metres tall. This is entirely forced by the clearance required for the roller shutter, using your measurements.

A structural ridgebeam is easy, even with the opening where it is. However, if you do end up with a bigger roof like this, then headroom isn't going to be an issue with raised ties, so you could build a more orthodox roof if you wanted. Your choice.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby TrimTheKing » 10 Mar 2017, 18:20

You could bring that down a bit by having the door centred couldn't you…?

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby 9fingers » 10 Mar 2017, 18:55

TrimTheKing wrote:You could bring that down a bit by having the door centred couldn't you…?

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Check out the Site Plan at the top of the page Mark. It looks tight where the door is drawn now let alone any more central.

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby TrimTheKing » 10 Mar 2017, 19:17

9fingers wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:You could bring that down a bit by having the door centred couldn't you…?

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Check out the Site Plan at the top of the page Mark. It looks tight where the door is drawn now let alone any more central.

Bob


Yep my bad, didn't tie the two together.

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 11 Mar 2017, 23:23

Mike, really appreciate you taking the time to do the drawings. Absolute legend!

So a quick one from me - I've spent the last couple of days worrying about the overall height. Perhaps this is unfounded, none the less I'm concerned as it's quite clear now that a workshop with a dual pitched roof with a roller door situated at the high end of a sloping garden is going to look very over powering.

I really dont think conventional 'barn doors' will work with the site and a sectional door will give a height restriction over a large internal area. So it's hard to look away from a roller shutter type door.

Are flat roofs really inferior? They appear to receive a lot of bad press? I'm thinking this could be the only way to go to keep the overall height down.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby 9fingers » 11 Mar 2017, 23:41

I think flat roofs got a bad press when covered with roofing felt which only lasted 10 years if you were luck and then leaked wrecking the chipboard decking.

A modern construction of WBP ply or OSB3 with adequate fall and support to prevent ponding and clad with EPDM rubber will last along time. EPDM itself is usually warranted for 30 years.

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 12 Mar 2017, 08:30

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a pair of side-hung doors. You only need approx one metre clearance to the existing building to make them work if you used assymetric doors. That would definitely be my preferred option. You could also consider a sliding door, or a bifold door, hinged on the left.

Flat rooves are fine. EPDM has transformed them.........they'll last forever now. However, it just isn't as attractive a building with a flat roof, and you potentially lose headroom and storage space. Personally, I'd find a way to make a pitched roof work.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 12 Mar 2017, 08:31

spearos wrote:Mike, really appreciate you taking the time to do the drawings. Absolute legend!.....


Less than 5 minutes. Saves typing time........ :D
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 13 Mar 2017, 21:54

9fingers wrote:Check out the Site Plan at the top of the page Mark. It looks tight where the door is drawn now let alone any more central.

Bob


Yes Bob! That end garage in the block is such a pain! Not only with having to offset the vehicle door but also because to be 1m away from that (rather than the actual end of garden) means the building 'eats' into the garden more :eusa-snooty:
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 13 Mar 2017, 22:21

I think I'm convinced the roller shutter door is a bad idea - asymmetrical side hung doors are such a simple yet effective solution! :eusa-clap: Now why didn't I think of that! :eusa-doh:

Thanks for the comments about flat roofs as well. With rubber in mind, :shock: I'm warming to the idea of a flat roof. Yes, I agree they don't look as nice but in my situation I could have a building under 3m with plenty of headroom, that doesn't dominate the area.
Something similar to Mike's first drawing however, with a dual pitched roof and a total height of around 3.1m is something to consider also - I will have to get out my gridded paper and do some calculations about just how much head room such a design would give me.

I feel like I'm actually getting somewhere now, with the help of this forum I feel as though I have a much clearer idea of what I can and cant do to achieve the objectives of the building. :text-thankyouyellow:
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