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Mark's Workshop/Garage

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Mar 2018, 21:06

I went for screws, too.

I used torx screws from Class Olson with an impact driver. Brilliant!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Andyp » 27 Mar 2018, 07:24

If you cant make it accurate than make it adjustable. :) Screws will give you an opportunity to re-jig if necessary.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 28 Mar 2018, 13:28

Thanks guys - using screws is something to ponder. That's a lot of pilot holes to be drilled though! I do think though it'd be quicker to just leave the heads proud on the nails, so should any adjustment be needed they can be quickly pulled out?

Out of interest though how many screws per rafter did you use?
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 28 Mar 2018, 14:05

The screws from Clas Olson had a sawtooth thread for about its first quarter. I used 90, 100 and 120 mm screws and never needed to pilot them at all.

https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/5.0x100-mm-C4-Countersunk-Wood-Screws/Pr409560011

For the rafters I did one central and two skewed.

I felt it was also important for me a an amateur, that the weight of an impact driver that can be carried on a belt with the screws was far far lighter than nailer with a trailing air pipe.

I made all the frames up on the ground with the nailer and wish now that I had found these screws earlier, as I would not have bought the nailer and used screws throughout. A professional doing this all the time would probably have a different view, but I found the screws more efficient and that screwing on the top of a ladder on an unstable structure was safer with a light impact driver that with a heavy railgun and air pipe.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby RogerS » 28 Mar 2018, 15:45

Why use a compressed air powered nailgun (or even a railgun ;) ? By a Paslode and then sell it on eBay when you're done. You'll get close to what you paid for it. I adopt that approach on all my projects.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 29 Mar 2018, 13:18

Malc2098 wrote:
For the rafters I did one central and two skewed.



Thanks Malc.

A couple skewed for the birdsmouth too?


RogerS wrote:Why use a compressed air powered nailgun (or even a railgun ;) ? By a Paslode and then sell it on eBay when you're done. You'll get close to what you paid for it. I adopt that approach on all my projects.


Exactly as I have done! :text-+1: Although I may now keep it!

Made the wall framing a breeze. I'm just unsure about letting it loose under my control on the rafters!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Mar 2018, 19:44

spearos wrote:
A couple skewed for the birdsmouth too?



Yes. I probably overdid them, but I used three each either side of the ridge and three each at the birdsmouth. But the ridge and rafters were meaty at 145 x 45mm.

My mate today said there's no way mine will ever fall down!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 02 Apr 2018, 22:12

Malc2098 wrote:Yes. I probably overdid them, but I used three each either side of the ridge and three each at the birdsmouth. But the ridge and rafters were meaty at 145 x 45mm.

My mate today said there's no way mine will ever fall down!


Thanks for that Malc. I guess it's better to have more than you need rather than less!.. Unless in this scenario it splits the timber!

I have decided though that I'm going to stick with nails. From what I've read there is some thought behind not using screws, that being screws are hardened which makes them brittle. Making them more likely to completely fail under stress, whereas a nail will just bend.

Anyhow, a significant step accomplished this weekend! Weather and family commitments meant I didn't have as much time as I would have liked on my build, however the ridge beam is up!

Image

Image

Following Mike's technique it wasn't that difficult getting the 6.5m, 225x45 ridge up to ~3.5m with just me, my Dad, an assortment of ladders and pieces of timber.

Birdsmouths seem ok -

Image

But... The ridge is cupped, meaning the rafters aren't sitting quite right at the top :( This photo shows it well (taken whilst setting up end rafters with an ridge offcut).

Image

Currently the roof is held up with temporary clamps, braces, screws and nails, and the plan is to sort it out next weekend.

What should I do with the cupped ridge/rafter fit though? How much of a problem is this? :eusa-think:

An idea I've had is something along the lines of this; supporting the ridge and removing the rafter on the convex side of the ridge, then pulling the ridge plumb against the in situ rafter with a large screw. A quick sketch should help explain my idea -

Image

Any thoughts/opinions very much appreciated!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Apr 2018, 09:41

Looking good.

I've no qualification and only just a little more experience, but I recall a video I watched of a Japanese carpenter who said something like, 'just go with the wood.'

As you go along the ridge you might find that they all are 'out' in different ways, but the combined structure of all the joints begins to stiffen the structure up.

Then once you get the roof and wall sheathing on, it'll be stiffer still, I suspect, whether the ridge is cupped or not.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby RogerS » 03 Apr 2018, 11:08

Mark..just go with it. It's a workshop...not a piece of furniture (although I admit to the same degree of fretting at times).

Your suggestion won't work as you are screwing into more-or-less end-grain and the screw will just pull out.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 03 Apr 2018, 21:59

RogerS wrote:Mark..just go with it. It's a workshop...not a piece of furniture (although I admit to the same degree of fretting at times).


It's the structural implications of the ridge/rafter joint that I'm concerned about, not how it looks!

However, thank you guys :obscene-drinkingcheers: Your comments make me feel more confident about continuing as it is and making the best fit I can with the ridge.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby 9fingers » 03 Apr 2018, 23:00

spearos wrote:
RogerS wrote:Mark..just go with it. It's a workshop...not a piece of furniture (although I admit to the same degree of fretting at times).


It's the structural implications of the ridge/rafter joint that I'm concerned about, not how it looks!

However, thank you guys :obscene-drinkingcheers: Your comments make me feel more confident about continuing as it is and making the best fit I can with the ridge.


These sort of structures are analysed for strength and stability on the basis of the properties of the materials and assuming each joint is a hinge. So little strength is derived from the joints.

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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Mike G » 04 Apr 2018, 07:27

Looks good Mark. Don't worry for a second about a cupped ridgeboard. I've seen gaps on rooves made by pros which you could get a finger into.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 04 Apr 2018, 21:25

Thanks for the comments Bob and Mike! - I feel a whole lot better for hearing them, and I can't wait to get out there at the weekend and cracking on! :eusa-dance:
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 09 Apr 2018, 21:06

More progress, more pics -

Most of the rafters up 8-)

Image

Image

Despite my earlier concerns, I'm quite pleased with the actual 'fit' at the ridge beam

Image

I would have liked to have got all the rafters up (two pairs left to do), however I had to tweak the building width at one end which robbed me of time. Despite setting the wall plates parallel two weeks ago with a piece of timber cut to the correct length (my 'test' piece for the birdsmouth cuts), it become apparent they had moved/warped.
I appears the timber is very unstable in the variable weather we've been having!

Next job is to fit said two pairs along with the ties and add some support at the gables...
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Apr 2018, 21:27

Looking good and much straighter than mine ever were!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 30 Apr 2018, 21:44

Roof coming along slowly! This build seems to be taking forever! Having one day every week at best means it's been around year now since I submitted my planning application!

A few photos of the limited progress -

Ties at wall plate level one end

Image

Raised ties the other end

Image

It was ever so satisfying that the ties all sat level when simply sat on wall plates or in the case of the raised ties on spacer blocks of the same size placed on the wall plate ;)

There is more progress (collar ties added, ties bolted etc) so photos to follow...



Meanwhile I've discovered felt Shingles! I really like the look of a timber building with a slate roof so I may have to amend my application! - I think I'm going to go for grey square felt shingles. They are reasonably priced, easy to fit (hopefully!) and they have an appearance similar to slate.

With this in mind I have been thinking about the verge detail and have been perusing all the shingle 'accessories' which led me to ridge vents. I understand the theory and to me it makes sense, however, I question whether I should install ridge vents because hardly any outbuildings seem to have them?
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Andyp » 01 May 2018, 07:55

Rome wasn't built in a day Mark and you are making faster progress than others did at this stage. Keep going.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 01 May 2018, 21:16

Doing well, Ole Son!

I like to see the timber framework. It was sort of sad after mine all got covered up by sheathing inside and cladding and roofing outside. But I know it's there!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 01 May 2018, 22:02

Thanks Andy. Soon I'll be able to do bits during the lighter evenings so that'll help move things along.
I totally underestimated how long it'll take! My lack of experience means I'm maybe a bit too meticulous with measurements etc, just hope it all turns out ok!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 01 May 2018, 22:05

Malc2098 wrote:Doing well, Ole Son!

I like to see the timber framework. It was sort of sad after mine all got covered up by sheathing inside and cladding and roofing outside. But I know it's there!


Cheers Malc! Your building looks great, it really does! So not seeing the frame isn't such a bad thing!
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby Malc2098 » 01 May 2018, 22:06

spearos wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:Doing well, Ole Son!

I like to see the timber framework. It was sort of sad after mine all got covered up by sheathing inside and cladding and roofing outside. But I know it's there!


Cheers Malc! Your building looks great, it really does! So not seeing the frame isn't such a bad thing!



Thanks, Mark.
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 May 2018, 15:01

Coming along nicely! :eusa-clap:
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 02 May 2018, 21:50

TrimTheKing wrote:Coming along nicely! :eusa-clap:


:text-thankyouyellow:
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Re: Mark's Workshop/Garage

Postby spearos » 13 May 2018, 21:55

The gable framework is finally done! I managed to finish it today, after a very frustrating day yesterday - dry and sunny all week, dry and sunny all morning and early afternoon whilst taking the kids to the park and having my brother and parents over for tea and cake. Then I get my tools out at about 3:30 and shortly after it's hacking it down!! :evil:

Anyhow, pics -

Double rafters sandwiching the tie and collar tie

Image

I mainly used 4x2 for the gable studs as I have a lot of 4x2 offcuts! The orientation of these do not follow the wall studs because some of the inner gable studs are sandwiched and go all the way up to rest under the collar tie.
The gable studs are mainly to provide fixing points for the internal cladding and batons for the FE boards, although no doubt they provide extra strength/rigidity.

Image

Finished jobby one end -

Image

The other end before fitting the outer gable studs. The detail here is slightly different because of the extra 8x2 mated to the tie, forming the door lintel -

Image

And here's a good example of what I was talking about earlier reference how surprised I am with how unstable the timber is. This is the doubled up 8x2 lintel which when fitted seemed reasonably dry and was clamped tightly together before being fixed by several fasteners.

Image

This, and the difference in width of the wall studs (~95mm) and gable studs (~2x45mm) means there will be complications when fitting the internal cladding and FE batons. However I have a plan....
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