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Nick's practice shed

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 27 Jun 2017, 11:23

Phil wrote:I am a clueless builder. :?

The fundy's will be along soon. :D

The left overhang for firewood – I would make the overhang longer for more protection, fit a nice beam across underneath next to the edge and then in the middle have a treated round pole (decent diameter) planted into the ground to support it right in the middle. Tie it together with a strap.

Phil

Thanks. I think some sort of support for the overhang would be good, even if only for appearance.

I have also realised that my own thinking of the design has moved on from my powerpoint sketch. In the powerpoint sketch I had the sole plate sitting on the lintels, but I think it makes more sense to build the floor first and have the walls built off that, as is shown in the sketchup.

A question too:

One thing I was worried about is cutting the cladding. It will be pressure-treated, but to my mind cutting it does mean you create a partially untreated face. For this reason I had initially assumed that I would build walls that were exactly 1.8m and 2.4m wide, and then have a number of timbers to make up four corner posts and fix the walls to those. However the advice on here seems to be to avoid big corner posts, so my sketch-up shows instead that I have doubled up the timbers at the edges of each wall and will attach the walls to one another directly. This means that the 2.4m wide wall will not be exactly 2.4m, so I will have to cut one end of the cladding. Now I will clearly cover this with a strip of something, but do I need to be concerned about cutting it in the first place?
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby Mike G » 27 Jun 2017, 11:25

What is the cladding you are proposing, and how do you plan to finish it?
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 27 Jun 2017, 11:36

It is still to be decided, but likely 22mm loglap or shiplap cladding, pressure-treated. This is primarily an aesthetics decision and so the wife will pick. She favours shiplap and loglap. For completness' sake I do intend to put a membrane around the outside and batten it out to create the ventilation per your plans.

I am going to paint the whole thing with Bedec barn paint.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby Mike G » 27 Jun 2017, 11:48

OK, well I simply paint the cut ends of cladding with Bedec. I think anything more than this would be overkill, but, you could set up a bucket of something like "Protim End Cut" and dip each cut end of a board into that for a few seconds. It would need a while to dry before painting, which would slow the cladding process down.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 27 Jun 2017, 11:57

Great, thanks. I will just paint it then. I don't want more process than is necessary.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby 9fingers » 27 Jun 2017, 12:45

First time I've come across Log Lap cladding. it looks a bit fragile (thin) in the tongue and groove region.
I presume it should be fitted tongue up to minimise trapped water or maybe it is best used vertically?

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 27 Jun 2017, 13:07

I had assumed that it would be fitted tongue-up for the reasons you give. I am not sure I am ready to try vertical - I am not sure how the ventilation gap would work. Presumably I would need to double-batten it, but I strongly suspect that whatever we go for will be installed horizontally, and I had expected to nail it in the visible face of the board rather than secret nailing. I personally favour shiplap because I think it just looks really smart, but I am not that bothered as long as it does a job.

These are my uneducated thoughts though - I am happy to be corrected!
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 21 Jul 2017, 00:21

as promised in the first post, progress is very slow but I've started to dig out the base and hoping to have that down in this weekend. Photos to come.

In the meantime: I can no longer see the Mike G shed plans in the sticky on this sub-forum. Is anybody else having this trouble?
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby Rod » 21 Jul 2017, 09:04

Andy must have reposted them using photo bucket, which has closed them down.
I copied this one to my phone for reference:

Image

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby TrimTheKing » 21 Jul 2017, 09:38

bluebirdnick wrote:In the meantime: I can no longer see the Mike G shed plans in the sticky on this sub-forum. Is anybody else having this trouble?


You can't see the thread Mike Garnham's how to build a shed, thread? Third topic down in the 'Topics' box?

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby 9fingers » 21 Jul 2017, 09:46

TrimTheKing wrote:
bluebirdnick wrote:In the meantime: I can no longer see the Mike G shed plans in the sticky on this sub-forum. Is anybody else having this trouble?


You can't see the thread Mike Garnham's how to build a shed, thread? Third topic down in the 'Topics' box?

Mark


Mark, I've fixed one of the missing pictures Nick is on about and request the other from Mike direct.
He can see the thread but not the PB pictures.

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby TrimTheKing » 21 Jul 2017, 09:47

My mistake, I missed the key word 'plans' in the question... :oops:

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby 9fingers » 21 Jul 2017, 09:52

TrimTheKing wrote:My mistake, I missed the key word 'plans' in the question... :oops:

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Just you being an impetuous yoof! :lol:

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby TrimTheKing » 21 Jul 2017, 09:53

9fingers wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:My mistake, I missed the key word 'plans' in the question... :oops:

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Just you being an impetuous yoof! :lol:

Bob

:lol: :eusa-clap:
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 21 Jul 2017, 13:29

Thanks all!
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby timothyedoran » 24 Jul 2017, 16:20

bluebirdnick wrote:
Phil wrote:I am a clueless builder. :?

The fundy's will be along soon. :D

The left overhang for firewood – I would make the overhang longer for more protection, fit a nice beam across underneath next to the edge and then in the middle have a treated round pole (decent diameter) planted into the ground to support it right in the middle. Tie it together with a strap.

Phil

Thanks. I think some sort of support for the overhang would be good, even if only for appearance.

I have also realised that my own thinking of the design has moved on from my powerpoint sketch. In the powerpoint sketch I had the sole plate sitting on the lintels, but I think it makes more sense to build the floor first and have the walls built off that, as is shown in the sketchup.

A question too:

One thing I was worried about is cutting the cladding. It will be pressure-treated, but to my mind cutting it does mean you create a partially untreated face. For this reason I had initially assumed that I would build walls that were exactly 1.8m and 2.4m wide, and then have a number of timbers to make up four corner posts and fix the walls to those. However the advice on here seems to be to avoid big corner posts, so my sketch-up shows instead that I have doubled up the timbers at the edges of each wall and will attach the walls to one another directly. This means that the 2.4m wide wall will not be exactly 2.4m, so I will have to cut one end of the cladding. Now I will clearly cover this with a strip of something, but do I need to be concerned about cutting it in the first place?


Depending on the quality of the cladding, you may find that you need to cut the cladding square as the tolerance at the saw mill might not match your tolerance. I found with the 4*2 2.4m etc that the ends were not always square enough to make the frame. I painted some end grain treatment stuff from Toolstation, just be safe.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 04 Sep 2017, 01:07

Hi all

I did actually build this in the end. Or at least, I have almost finished. Still to do are roof covering; roof insulation and OSB lining; finishing the door, painting everything, and getting some glass for the windows. Apologies for not updating: it's been hectic in work and with our first baby due any minute now, I've been short of time! Also, the problems with uploading pics has really made it hard to ask questions so I sort-of gave up.

Anyway, as I mention in my original post one of the main reasons for building this was as a practice to see whether it is genuinely feasible for me to build something significantly bigger in Jan-Feb, when I am off work for 2 months. I will not be able to spend all day every day on it, but I would hope to get a few full days in, and chip away at it for an hour to two each day otherwise. So to that end and to get around the problem with pics, I have thrown together a quick blog showing the progress and what I think I have learned from the process. It should start from the bottom up but the "top" post is the groundwork which should come first, and I've not worked out how to change site title etc. If I could transfer all of this stuff to this site then I would, but pictures are so important and I am struggling to work out how else to incorporate them.

So in the meantime in case anybody is interested, here is where I have got to. Comments (on this forum please, I don't plan to use that blog at all really!) are welcome!

https://nickspracticeshed.wordpress.com/

Thanks,

Nick
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Sep 2017, 08:58

Well done, Nick. Bloody brilliant.

I wished I had kept a journal as well as just a photo record.

I bet there are guys out there reading your diary with interest and taking notes of what to do and not to do.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby TrimTheKing » 04 Sep 2017, 10:30

Nice, the picture hosting has been sorted, have a look for the announcement at the top of each forum that shows how to do it.

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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby bluebirdnick » 04 Sep 2017, 11:32

Mark - will do. I would much rather have it all on this thread so I will look to transfer it all across one evening this week.

EDIT: updated now. For those reading this, the posts up to cladding were all added after the act - if something is wrong it is now too late to fix it!
Last edited by bluebirdnick on 09 Sep 2017, 09:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nick's practice shed

Postby TrimTheKing » 04 Sep 2017, 12:10

This is what you need to be looking for...

This topic

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Day 1 - dig a hole

Postby bluebirdnick » 09 Sep 2017, 09:36

Day 1 - dig a hole

dig hole.jpg
(511.5 KiB)


Then line hole with geotextile.

line with geotextile.jpg
(447.79 KiB)


Took a day of work, split in to two half days on the weekend. Time was mostly spent removing 3 tree stumps.

Lessons learnt for workshop:

1. Digging is misery and my back doesn’t hold up well to it. Can I get a labourer to do it? Have asked the labourer/gardener on the extension next door to quote.

2. I dug too deep – 300/400mm. Don’t. It makes it harder, there is no need, and it makes filling it with hardcore and type 1 (concrete, for the workshop) harder and more expensive.

3. Ivy is a pain. Leave plenty of time and patience to clear properly. The garden is full of roots.

4. Don’t be lazy and leave the soil right next to the hole. It made the rest of the job hard. Take more time and move the soil at the same time.

5. I forgot to treat the soil with weedkiller. Let’s see if it matters. I cleared 6 or 7 blackberry plants from the area, so it might matter.
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dig hole.jpg
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Lay the base

Postby bluebirdnick » 09 Sep 2017, 09:40

I spent 1.5 days laying a base. I don’t have any photos of this, but it was:

Hardcore (bricks)
1 bag of type 1
Patio slabs, levelled on a bed of mortar
Concrete lintels (100×65)
DPC
Timber floor frame (100×47).

Here is a photo I do have. To get this far took 1.5 days! Dad helped and put in a big shift – in particular on mixing mortar. His experience of designing road surfaces came in handy too for getting a good base. This doesn’t show a continuous DPC above the middle lintel, but there is one now. it was folded up like this as well and packed in, because despite my best efforts the middle lintel seemed to be 2-3mm lower than the outer two, so I packed the small gap with DPC (seemed as good as anything else).

base.jpg
(149.42 KiB)


The timber frame was easy and quick to put together. One error though: I had intended to clamp the two long pieces together and mark the two together for where the shorter joists would sit. I forgot. And that added 30 mins of measuring. Also – I used mini joist hangers, as well as putting in some big screws in at an angle (pic should show the heads). The joist hangers were great the top of the joists flush, but I don’t know how to use them! This pic shows the problem:

joist hanger detail.jpg
(116.9 KiB)


I didn’t put in any fixings between the hanger and the shorter joist. Why is the hanger not at 90 degrees? As shown, it is more “open”. Was I supposed to fix it to the shorter joist first so that it closed up? If so, it would not have done the job I wanted which was to get everything nice and flush.

What this does not show is that Builder Depot were dreadful and failed to supply the 18mm OSB sheet material for the floor, despite guaranteeing that they would do so. They offered to deliver 18mm exterior ply instead the following which I took, but it was shuttering ply. It’s awful, but I didn’t have time to do anything about it so my floor is crap shuttering ply. I also failed to get insulation sorted out in time, so the floor is not insulated.

Lessons learnt for the workshop:

Not a lot really as the base is so different for the workshop. I will still be doing a timber suspended floor though so:

Do not trust suppliers to get stuff to you on time. Have a space ready to take materials (pallets in the back garden with some decent sheeting will do) and have stuff delivered at least 2-3 days in advance of needing it – reliance on an untested just-in-time system means I ended up with a crap uninsulated floor.
Learn how to use joist hangers! (See above)
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Put up frame

Postby bluebirdnick » 09 Sep 2017, 09:42

Sadly very few pics here. Doing the wall frames was easy – took 2-3 hours with Dad’s help. Putting up the ridge beam took about an hour on my own one evening. A friend very kindly lent me a morning of his time to help with the rafters and roof sheet material which was invaluable – it would have been nigh-on impossible on my own. Here is a pic – the only one I have of the basic frame:

rafters.jpg
(442.09 KiB)


So all told, that adds up to a day’s work for two people.

Lessons learnt for the workshop:

1) The plans show double studs at the edges of the walls. Stick to that. I did it for the side walls but not the front and back (thanks, Builder Depot, for not delivering the full order and leaving me scrambling around for workarounds). This was a mistake. Having the double studs would come in really handy for lots of things, including lining the inside of the shed, and battening for cladding. Here is a pic of a bodgy workaround I did for both, which made insulating harder and less effective:

bodge.jpg
(72.31 KiB)


2) There is a fairly obvious mistake here – the ridge beam’s weight is borne by a single 47×47 top plate. Not clever. If I am doing a ridge beam for the workshop and its supports do not sit over a stud, then double up the top plate.

3) Work on the roof is a two-man job. Buy bottles of wine and offer them to anybody willing to give me a day of help.

4) Make everything level and square, even if you don’t think it needs to be. I didn’t really bother too much with the noggins because it didn’t seem to matter, but it made insulating and lining it harder because I was not sure that I had made sure they were exactly horizontal, and because I had just put them in with no real pattern. Don’t do this: far better to have it all level and proper and to plan – the minutes it saves at the time can cost ten times that at a later stage when you cannot rely on the location or position of something.

5) Learn how to use the metal connectors for the rafters. They did an OK job here, but it’s clearly not how they are supposed to be used. And it will make lining the roof hard because the clips are in the way…

6) Bolt the walls together, and use timber connectors. I had them ready, but it seemed sturdy enough with the massive screws I was using so didn’t bother to go back and bolt the walls together. Even if it makes no difference, it’s maybe £30 to know it’s been done as well as can be done. Just do it.

7) Spacing of studs. I did it to accommodate 455mm cavity wall batts, but the ones I ended up using were 600mm anyway (partly because just-in-time ordering is great in theory but terrible in practice). 600mm (or at least spaced to accommodate the OSB internal lining) would be far better really.
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Lining walls and insulation

Postby bluebirdnick » 09 Sep 2017, 09:44

Sadly very few pics of this. Here is what I do have:

lining walls.jpg
(120.3 KiB)


This was easier than anticipated. 11mm OSB is manageable on my own, for the walls. Insulation took 1-2 hours. Lining the walls about double that – so well under a day’s work in total. I used omnifit slabs, because that is all I could get hold of. It wasn’t much fun to work with, but if I had 600mm spacing between studs it would be infinitely easier than having to cut all of them. Noggin spacing to accommodate full sheets would be a good idea too. I bought a cheap staple gun which fired 32mm staples – this did a great job with the OSB.

Some stuff that took ages/lessons for the workshop

1. Insect mesh. How do I actually fix this stuff?! Tried the staples. then duct tape but the tape peels off and the staples don’t completely fix it. Argh!

2. Fascias. Do this when you do the rafters and before I put the roof sheeting on. It took about 2-3 hours! Fixing it was hard work working in awkward positions. They should be the same size as the noggins (just under 600mm) so do them at the same time and use them to help space the rafters.
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