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wizer's Workshop

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Deejay » 25 Oct 2017, 17:44

wizer wrote:
Mike G wrote:
Here's a corner being built:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1NALOkrxsQ


Doesn't matter how many of those videos I watch, I'm sure it's not that simple!!! :o :D


Afternoon Tom

I haven't done that much brickwork but, In my limited experience, Mike is right about the consistency of the mortar. If you get that right you're half way there.

Too dry and you can't bed in the bricks. Too wet and it won't support the brick as it sets and you risk getting it all over the face. If you mix it so that light pressure from the hand onto a carefully laid consistent bed of mortar will get the brick almost right you can then tap it down to the line /level.

If it's too dry, chuck it back in the mixer and add water till it's right.

Get yourself a bit of scrap plywood to use as a spot board for the mix.

Start round the back and you'll be doing it right first time by the time you get to the front.

It's a skilled job, but you only need to lay a few hundred bricks over three courses. Take your time and you can do it.

Cheers

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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2017, 18:18

Just to add to what Deejay has just said, the wetness of the bricks is also a key factor. If they are bone dry they'll "suck" any life out of the mortar immediately, and it won't matter how perfect you've got your mortar. However, too wet and you'll make a horrible mess, getting mortar all over the face. I have a watering can with me when laying bricks, and will damp down the stack of un-laid bricks now and then to adjust their wetness. It's a bloomin' fiddle, especially with soft-reds, which are very porous.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Tusses » 25 Oct 2017, 18:29

I've only ever laid a few bricks , but I have a bucket of water with me. the next brick to be laid is in the bucket whilst I lay this one , then I take it out to lay , and put another in . I don't know if this is a good way or not ? .. I just knew dry brick suck the moisture out of the mortar.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2017, 18:56

That would be too wet, Tusses. The face of the brick will be smeared in mortar just from striking off the excess. They need to be damp, but not have any surface water on them.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Tusses » 26 Oct 2017, 10:05

ok , thanks Mike
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 30 Jan 2018, 14:53

Hi all

Happy New Year. I suppose I better start getting things moving on this again.

Been offered a load of insulation boards and I'm wondering if it's a good deal.

All I know is it's

Inno-Bond
'Tissue Faced'
100mm x 600mm x 1200mm

Paying about £7.50 per board.

All I can find is that it's intended for roofs. Would this work in the walls of my workshop? It seems to be a very good price on an expensive aspect of the build.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 30 Jan 2018, 15:18

I've used paper line boards on my build under the floor and in the roof, from the seconds people.

That price would work out at £30 for 1200x2400

I got mine from the seconds place, they were 120mm thick and worked out at less than £20 for a 1200x2400 equivalent.

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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 30 Jan 2018, 15:19

Thanks Malc

I'll look at 2nds

But is this stuff ok in the walls?
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 30 Jan 2018, 15:34

Looking at this.

I've been offered 140 boards for £1000, so actually more like £7.15 per board - £28.60 per full board.

https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/product- ... foil-board
£35.27

Plus delivery, would work out quite a bit more. They are in York, so not exactly local.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 30 Jan 2018, 16:26

That's a lot of area, Wizer. If you're build will take it, then it seems not a bad deal. Disposing of waste offcuts and boards can cost, though.

I went to their pallets of boards page.

https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/shop-c15sh

They change weekly, so I kept watching until one came up that suited me; size, price etc.

We have to remember that they are seconds and so may not be uniform thickness, and that if they are uniform and 100mm, then they are too thick for putting in standard 95x45 treated timber for the frames.

Mine was 120 mm, so I couldn't use it in the walls, the floor was great, but the roof needed a little adjustment to accommodate them for their ventilation.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 30 Jan 2018, 16:42

Malc2098 wrote:
We have to remember that they are seconds and so may not be uniform thickness, and that if they are uniform and 100mm, then they are too thick for putting in standard 95x45 treated timber for the frames.


Yes that's a sticking point. But I can probably pack out the frame by 5mm (using off cuts of a foam board we use at work) and still be saving money.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 30 Jan 2018, 16:48

That's what I did with my roof rafters. They were 145 and I wanted about a 50mm ventilation space, so I screwed 50x25 roofing battens on top of the rafters to create the gap - the boards were 120mm, the rafters 145 + 25 =170mm, so I got a 50mm gap.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby RogerS » 30 Jan 2018, 18:56

I got my Kingspan from Seconds and Co. This is about 1/4 of what I boght for £1625. Thought I had another photo of the stacked pallets on the truck.

Image

It's well worth giving them a call as their stock changes daily and, as Malc says, the thicknesses do vary. But you could get some 90mm perhaps. They'll tell you the delivery charge as well. Might not be as bad as you think although I do appreciate that relative to God's Own, you are in the tropics. :D

Not sure how pricing is fairing given the fire in the German Celotex factory which put a severe dent in available supplies. I'm thinking I might use mineral wool batts as Mike G suggested.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 31 Jan 2018, 10:57

Thanks Roger. Very envious of your polytunnel :D A combination of planning restrictions and idiotic neighbours put an end to my hope of having one :cry:

I keep needing to remind myself of the power of forums (dying as they are). Been trying to work this out in my own head and there's not enough wattage in there to figure it all out on my own :shock:

Ultimately cost is the deciding factor here (isn't it always). The final insulation value is less important (beggers can't be choosers).

So I'm now urgently trying to work out what's best in terms of cost, as I only have until Sat to get these rigid boards. We are replacing the flat roof on our house, these boards still might be usefull, if not for the workshop.

Will call Seconds&Co this morning. Am also now looking at mineral wall. Is this generally a cheaper option than PIR? Is there a massive difference in insulation rating?
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Rod » 31 Jan 2018, 12:44

I used 100mm Rockwall on my rebuild.

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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 31 Jan 2018, 14:39

Could someone please check my maths :eusa-shifty:

The walls are:
7.5m x 1.8m = 13.5m2 x 2 = 27m2
4m x 1.8m = 7.2m2 x 2 = 14.4m2
7.5m x 300mm = 2.25m2
Total = 43.65m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... -pack.html

4.32m2 = £30.17
43.65m2 / 4.32m2 = 10.10 x £30.17 = £304.72

Roof is:
7.6m x 4.7m = 35.7m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... x-43m.html

4.9m2 = £62.81
35.7m2 / 4.9m2 = £7.3 x £458.52

Total Cost £763.27

I have rounded up and not subtracted the door and window cut outs, so this should be the top end, if I have worked it out correctly. Have I?
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Andyp » 31 Jan 2018, 15:00

wizer wrote:Could someone please check my maths :eusa-shifty:

The walls are:
7.5m x 1.8m = 13.5m2 x 2 = 27m2
4m x 1.8m = 7.2m2 x 2 = 14.4m2
7.5m x 300mm = 2.25m2
Total = 43.65m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... -pack.html

4.32m2 = £30.17
43.65m2 / 4.32m2 = 10.10 x £30.17 = £304.72

Roof is:
7.6m x 4.7m = 35.7m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... x-43m.html

4.9m2 = £62.81
35.7m2 / 4.9m2 = £7.3 x £458.52 should be 7.3 x 62.81 = 458.52

Total Cost £763.27

I have rounded up and not subtracted the door and window cut outs, so this should be the top end, if I have worked it out correctly. Have I?


Tom, Why do you have 5 walls? Maths is correct except for the bit in red above. You can't order fractions of a batt so are you going to order 7 batts of the first one and 10 of the second and hope that the cuts outs will make up the difference.

NB I failed O level maths so dont take my word for it :)
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby 9fingers » 31 Jan 2018, 15:05

wizer wrote:Could someone please check my maths :eusa-shifty:

The walls are:
7.5m x 1.8m = 13.5m2 x 2 = 27m2
4m x 1.8m = 7.2m2 x 2 = 14.4m2
7.5m x 300mm = 2.25m2
Total = 43.65m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... -pack.html

4.32m2 = £30.17
43.65m2 / 4.32m2 = 10.10 x £30.17 = £304.72

Roof is:
7.6m x 4.7m = 35.7m2

https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/ ... x-43m.html

4.9m2 = £62.81
35.7m2 / 4.9m2 = £7.3 x £458.52

Total Cost £763.27

I have rounded up and not subtracted the door and window cut outs, so this should be the top end, if I have worked it out correctly. Have I?


Well, in full pedant mode, in an exam you would get very low marks even zero for making a number of untrue statements. m2 can never equal £ and a few spurious factors of 2 make some equals statements untrue
However for your purposes, the answer is very close to being correct so your arithmetic (not mathematics please!) serves you well.
:lol:

You might want to have a bit of spare otherwise as the end you might be working hard to glue together all the offcuts even allowing for doors and windows.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 31 Jan 2018, 15:34

Andyp wrote:
wizer wrote:Could someone please check my maths :eusa-shifty:


Tom, Why do you have 5 walls?


I can see how that might have been confusing :lol: One of the walls has an addtional wall on top to acheive the slope of the roof.

Bob: Thanks. I mean I didn't even sit my GCSE's, so glad I wasn't far off :D


On this basis, the wool batts doesn't really offer a substantial saving off the whole lot. Is PIR considerably better at insulating. It will be a PITA to pack out the frame to take the 100mm boards, but happy to do it if the end result is a better insulated building.
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby 9fingers » 31 Jan 2018, 15:43

I think PIR has better insulation properties than glass wool for a given thickness and also there is no risk of over compressing PIR which is one of the issues about glass wool ( less so with rigid batts)

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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 31 Jan 2018, 16:40

I would have avoided 'wool' type insulation due to sagging. But assume the Batts don't have that problem. :eusa-think:
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 31 Jan 2018, 17:49

wizer wrote:I would have avoided 'wool' type insulation due to sagging. But assume the Batts don't have that problem. :eusa-think:



I used batts - no sag!


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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby RogerS » 01 Feb 2018, 07:13

Always knew you were a bit batty, Malc ! :lol: :eusa-whistle:
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby Malc2098 » 01 Feb 2018, 11:22

RogerS wrote:Always knew you were a bit batty, Malc ! :lol: :eusa-whistle:



Ha!! One to know one, as they say!! :D
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Re: wizer's Workshop

Postby wizer » 19 Feb 2018, 12:38

I'm going around in circles with planning this frame. I'm sure I'm over thinking it but it's driving me nuts.

So I bought the insulation boards. They are 600mm wide. So I was going to go for 24" o/c 'advanced' framing. However, using 600mm insulation would surely put my centres at more than 25" centres. That prompted me to look at common insulation sizes and the other common size is 450mm, which surely would put centres at 495mm or 19+inches?

Are you expected to cut these boards down to fit common 16" or 24" centres or am I being really stupid and missing the point.

I realise that 16 or 24 centres is supposed to be so that your sheathing lines up halfway on a board, but why are they not making insulation boards that match this? Or do we do something different in Europe?

:cry: :(
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