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The Bike Workshop

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The Bike Workshop

Postby cadman_4 » 19 Oct 2017, 13:22

Hi All

I've managed to get a little spare time inbetween work & finishing off our kitchen refurb. I have discussed my outline plans with er-in-doors and agreed that I can build a motorcycle workshop at the end of the garden :D

So the plan is to move an existing summerhouse to a new location, then move a small shed at the end of the garden onto the old summerhouse base leaving the end of the garden free.

Looking at the local council website I can build a workshop up to 30sqm and 4m high if it is greater than 2m from the boundary. My "plot" is 12m wide and at the end of a 33m garden so i plan to be 2m away from the back boundary too.

That leaves me with a space of 7m wide x 4m deep. Purfect.

I have discussed borrowing a small Bobcat type digger from a friend to level out the slope but I'm not sure on how to construct the base. I was considering concrete slab as per Mike's build, however the concrete mixer would park on the roadside which is circa 45 - 50m away from the proposed workshop location.

An alternative thought was that I could make the slab up in smaller sections with a small mixer and then lay a thinner screed over the top.

Other than that I am looking at beam & block or raised wooden floor

Any thoughts greatly appreciated

John
Last edited by cadman_4 on 19 Jun 2018, 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2017, 13:40

Just a quick note about the sizes you give. The 30 square metre thing is to be free of Building Control (the people who control how you build), and is based on internal floor area. The height thing is about your Permitted Development rights (ie building you can build without Planning Consent), so is a Planning matter (the people who control what and where you can build). You are probably aware of the differences, but I thought I should make that clear for readers who weren't so aware.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Tusses » 19 Oct 2017, 16:18

if you can get a bob cat , can you get a dumper truck ?
Our neighbour had a concrete truck on the main road and a dumper to move the mixed concrete round the back to the garage plot.
It was all done in no time.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 19 Oct 2017, 19:32

Mike G wrote:Just a quick note about the sizes you give. The 30 square metre thing is to be free of Building Control (the people who control how you build), and is based on internal floor area. The height thing is about your Permitted Development rights (ie building you can build without Planning Consent), so is a Planning matter (the people who control what and where you can build). You are probably aware of the differences, but I thought I should make that clear for readers who weren't so aware.


Thanks Mike

Yes I get the differences. So I assume that I am correct in my plans so far?


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 19 Oct 2017, 19:37

Tusses wrote:if you can get a bob cat , can you get a dumper truck ?
Our neighbour had a concrete truck on the main road and a dumper to move the mixed concrete round the back to the garage plot.
It was all done in no time.


Good idea. The digger is one of those narrow ones that you can fit down a footpath

I may be able to clear a small car width down to the back of the site if I take down the old garage first, but then I’m left with where to store that stuff in the short term

I’ll have to spend some time looking at dumper hire


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2017, 19:51

Could you just take the back out of the garage and drive the dumper through it?
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 19 Oct 2017, 19:55

Yes possibly doable. I assume the concrete slab method would be best? What are your thoughts about doing it in sections?


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2017, 20:21

You could do it in sections, but I don't see what you would achieve, and you'd always have cracks (which could extend through the plinth). So, I would try to avoid doing it if at all possible.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Tusses » 19 Oct 2017, 20:40

I've mixed (little cement mixer and barrow) and poured a 30m2 slab in one go before
you need to have everything near by ready and work hard for a few hours.
start one end , level as you go. as long as one pour doesn't set, the next pour should bond ok. and keep going.

The one I'm in at the mo , I did in sections (as I built the workshop before pouring the floor ! , and had half my kit in to shuffle around), which hasn't cracked - I didn't use shuttering inside for the sections, I let one pour spread at the edges and troweled the next pour to level the join - if that makes sense ? I did PVA the overlaps , but don't know how much difference that made. Had cars and vans in there no problem

in one go is best by far though if you can do it.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 20 Oct 2017, 13:54

Well I started off the day phoning round for dumper costs. I thought I'd have a search online for local pumping companies to see if they would be able to pump over the 30m I had seen advertised. It seems most companies can pump up to 60m before they need special equipment.

The pump hire looks to be about £365 on top of the concrete and a much easier job for me as they do all the work and I would just need to tamp and level. Boom

Next stage is either learn sketchup over the winter or just use 2D AutoCAD as I use that day to day. I knocked this up in a couple of hours.

Do you guys start the drawings off like this or draw the individual beams & joists first and build up from there?
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 20 Oct 2017, 14:28

Frankly I'm not sure this needs much of a drawing. A quick section would be all I'd do.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 22 Oct 2017, 10:19

I spent last night reading through the other builds of which I think some have gone missing? Anyhow with my proposed 7 x 4m build I thought that isn’t too far off of Mikes build but I couldn’t see any reference to depth of hardcore below the concrete slab. My garden is about a 1 1/2 spade depth of top soil followed by a deep layer of red/brown hard clay. So do I need a hardcore layer or pour the slab on compacted soil?


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 22 Oct 2017, 16:04

Clear down to the hard substrate (ie get rid of the topsoil), then build back up with hardcore until you are roughly 100mm below the finished ground level. Your 150mm of concrete will then be roughly 50mm above ground level.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Oct 2017, 12:24

cadman_4 wrote:
Next stage is either learn sketchup over the winter or just use 2D AutoCAD as I use that day to day. I knocked this up in a couple of hours.

Do you guys start the drawings off like this or draw the individual beams & joists first and build up from there?


As a DIYer, I would stick to which application I was most familiar with, but if you would want to use Sketchup to model your design, I found that by drawing a plane of the horizontal size of the base allowed me to draw the foundation trenches and then individual bricks and joints, and the joists and flooring, to help me calculate the correct amounts of materials. Then I would draw a vertical plane for a long side and a short side to draw the timber framing/sheathing within it. Again, than helped me calculate the amount of timber required.

I enjoyed learning skecthup that way while waiting for the PP decision.

Hope that helps.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 24 Oct 2017, 13:26

Thanks Malc

I think I've made up my mind to use 2D AutoCAD for working out material requirements as I'm familiar with it. I may use sketchup to make a 3D model once I've finalised the design.

After more musing last night while walking the dog I wondered if any one knows how to calculate the framing / support requirements for a block & tackle. I have an old setup in the garage which I've used to hold up the front of a bike while removing the forks. For that I just wedged a 4 x 2 each side of the bike under the 3 x 2 roof joist in the garage, if it's feasable I would like to have a beam spanning 4m that could potentially lift a 300kg motorbike off the floor, maybe a little too much to ask of a workshop made of 4 x 2 framing, but you never know.

And if you're only going to build it once you might as well have everything in :D

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Halo Jones » 24 Oct 2017, 14:53

And if you're only going to build it once you might as well have everything in :D


I'm starting to imagine Iron Man's workshop :D
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 24 Oct 2017, 16:12

300kg is 150kg. on each end of the beam as a point load. That's approximately the weight of two adults.

So, provided you don't allow this point load to fall on a single-depth plate mid-span between two studs, then there isn't the slightest problem in 4x2 framing supporting it
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Oct 2017, 17:30

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 24 Oct 2017, 17:40

Malc2098 wrote:Ever thought of one of these?

They start at as little as £130. Could be built in to the build cost.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cml5-hydraulic-motorcycle-and-atv-lift/?da=1&TC=GS-020110194&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdXurdaJ1wIVSDobCh2qDQ9PEAQYAiABEgKj2fD_BwE


I’ve already got one of those. Great bit of kit but on the bike I’m working on at the moment you need to have the engine on one of those and hoist the frame over the top and then lower it down to line up the mounting points. Nothing’s ever easy is it


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Oct 2017, 18:00

cadman_4 wrote: Nothing’s ever easy is it


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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Oct 2017, 18:03

Bloomin' modern bikes!

My R50, has two long bolts through the lower engine and frame, so all you do is carry the engine between your legs, step over the frame, let go of one end and put that hand through the frame and grab the engine again, lower the engine onto the two lower tubes, then go outside, rub your hernia and swear a bit!!

:shock:
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 24 Oct 2017, 18:57

Malc2098 wrote:Bloomin' modern bikes!

My R50, has two long bolts through the lower engine and frame, so all you do is carry the engine between your legs, step over the frame, let go of one end and put that hand through the frame and grab the engine again, lower the engine onto the two lower tubes, then go outside, rub your hernia and swear a bit!!

:shock:


That’ll be the German engineering then...

Vorsprung Durch Technik



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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Oct 2017, 20:06

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby DaveL » 24 Oct 2017, 20:37

cadman_4 wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:Ever thought of one of these?

They start at as little as £130. Could be built in to the build cost.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cml5-hydraulic-motorcycle-and-atv-lift/?da=1&TC=GS-020110194&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdXurdaJ1wIVSDobCh2qDQ9PEAQYAiABEgKj2fD_BwE


I’ve already got one of those. Great bit of kit but on the bike I’m working on at the moment you need to have the engine on one of those and hoist the frame over the top and then lower it down to line up the mounting points. Nothing’s ever easy is it


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If it was easy, there would be no point doing it.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 25 Oct 2017, 13:37

Mike G wrote:300kg is 150kg. on each end of the beam as a point load. That's approximately the weight of two adults.

So, provided you don't allow this point load to fall on a single-depth plate mid-span between two studs, then there isn't the slightest problem in 4x2 framing supporting it


Thanks Mike. What would the crossmember need to be, I was thinking a couple of 6 x 2 bolted together?


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