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The Bike Workshop

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2017, 18:14

Dunno. Occasional non-specific point loads on beams is not something I'd begin to know how to calculate. What I would say, though, is that stopping whatever you use for a beam from rotating (falling over) is going to be your biggest structural task.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 25 Oct 2017, 19:03

Mike G wrote:Dunno. Occasional non-specific point loads on beams is not something I'd begin to know how to calculate. What I would say, though, is that stopping whatever you use for a beam from rotating (falling over) is going to be your biggest structural task.


Never thought I’d manage to stump you

I have some lengths of 6 x 2 to play with. As for the rotational side of things I had been thinking about using wood to wood joist hangers or building the beams into the framework below the double header? And then sitting them on the supporting framework. I’ll see if I can mock up a few ideas in cad and post them for comments

I tried looking a joist spanning tables but they are designed to spread the load over several joists in a given m2


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2017, 19:50

Exactly. A uniformly distributed load is something most architects can cope with using various tables and rules of thumb. A point load involves...............you know...........actual maths. :lol:
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 12 Nov 2017, 11:32

After having some more thinking about the hoist joist I have decided to park that idea for now. I have been thinking about the floor recently. I shall be casting a concrete base as most others but in the bike assembly half of the workshop I can see myself sitting or kneeling on the floor and so have been thinking about laying a celotex type insulation board down with a 18mm flooring on top. What are everyone’s thoughts on doing this? I would ideally do this throughout as it will also keep my feet warmer too. Would this floor be strong enough to bolt down a pedestal grinder to?


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2017, 12:51

cadman_4 wrote:After having some more thinking about the hoist joist I have decided to park that idea for now. I have been thinking about the floor recently. I shall be casting a concrete base as most others but in the bike assembly half of the workshop I can see myself sitting or kneeling on the floor and so have been thinking about laying a celotex type insulation board down with a 18mm flooring on top. What are everyone’s thoughts on doing this? I would ideally do this throughout as it will also keep my feet warmer too. Would this floor be strong enough to bolt down a pedestal grinder to?


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I have a 18mm plywood floor with insulation over concrete and it is comfortable to stand on all day if needed.
I cant see a problem with a pedestal grinder on ply. If you use OSB, the screws dont hold so well so maybe drill into the concrete if they give way?
For kneeling, I'd suggest some rubber mats that you can move around for comfort.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 12 Nov 2017, 17:37

Thanks Bob
I was thinking of something like t&g chipboard floorboard though. How thick is your insulation slab?


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2017, 17:53

cadman_4 wrote:Thanks Bob
I was thinking of something like t&g chipboard floorboard though. How thick is your insulation slab?


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I only had room for about an inch and it is jablite :shock: frowned upon by many for its fire risk but under my floor and against concrete I reckon is it OK.
Generally there is more heat loss through walls and roof compare to floor and I only aim to keep it between 5 and 10 C in winter. Only uses a 750 watt oil filled radiator on a thermostat for a 30 sqm building.
When I logged it over one winter is was on about a 1/3 of the time.

You might find fixing machinery like a grinder no problem but something with more vibration like a wood lathe or a full height pillar drill that is much more top heavy that bolting through to the concrete will be best.
Easily done. Drill clearance hole through the floor and insulation, then drill concrete for a rawl bolt or similar (maybe chemical anchor) then fit a length of steel tube into the clearance hole cutting it flush with the floor.
Then you can tighten down on through that rather than the more flexible floor.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 12 Nov 2017, 17:57

Interesting. I like your style. Well onwards and upwards, next week should see me get most of the design work sorted so I can get an idea of costs going forwards... I’m sure it’ll end up like grand designs were I spend at least twice as much as I’ve budgeted for


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2017, 18:03

cadman_4 wrote:Interesting. I like your style. Well onwards and upwards, next week should see me get most of the design work sorted so I can get an idea of costs going forwards... I’m sure it’ll end up like grand designs were I spend at least twice as much as I’ve budgeted for


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I work on the basis that there has to be an easy/low cost solution to everything but perhaps I've just not thought of it yet!
When part of a project seems to be getting out of hand. Stop, re-think it, and stop the tail wagging the dog.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 22 Mar 2018, 14:02

So after a long period of ground clearing I have arranged to borrow a mini digger from a friend.

Plans are to level out the area as the site slopes from left to right, once the gradients are sorted then I can get on and dig out a for the slab.

With a 4" slab thickened at end edges to 6" do I need to think about some kind of reinforcing (re-bar or mesh)

The workshop will be a single pour slab 7m x 4m.

The concrete needs to be pumped from the roadside, so circa 50m, with that in mind...

On the other hand i have considered digging a trench and building foundations and a floating floor, similar to a standard house construction. I am as always looking at the cost versus advantage point.

Any thoughts either way?

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby 9fingers » 22 Mar 2018, 17:59

I think I'd be looking at solutions only requiring single charge for the concrete pump to save cash.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 22 Mar 2018, 18:39

9fingers wrote:I think I'd be looking at solutions only requiring single charge for the concrete pump to save cash.

Bob


Thanks Bob, when you say single charge I assume you mean pumping concrete in for a solid slab aka Mike’s way?

The second option I was thinking about would be ring beam foundation I think it’s called and then a raised wooden floor, typical old school house build (I live in a 1930’s one)

The reason for this is concrete cost versus wooden floor joists costs

John


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby 9fingers » 22 Mar 2018, 20:09

cadman_4 wrote:
9fingers wrote:I think I'd be looking at solutions only requiring single charge for the concrete pump to save cash.

Bob


Thanks Bob, when you say single charge I assume you mean pumping concrete in for a solid slab aka Mike’s way?

The second option I was thinking about would be ring beam foundation I think it’s called and then a raised wooden floor, typical old school house build (I live in a 1930’s one)

The reason for this is concrete cost versus wooden floor joists costs

John


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Apologies John I had interpreted your reference to house floor construction as concrete strip foundation plus a concrete floor poured later onto insulation at a later stage hence two visits by the pump.

A timber floor is much nicer to work on and kinder to cutting tools if dropped but that can be achieved with ply cladding on concrete or a suspended floor. The latter needs to be much stronger if you are going to have decent cast iron machinery in there at any time.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Dan0741 » 22 Mar 2018, 20:59

Evening John,

I did similar to what you re proposing. I also used a pump. It went 'fairly' well..... However i didnt have a superb experience with it given that the pump bloke didnt seem all that skilled/experienced. He managed to put the pump arm over the house ok - A large two story house, my garden distances are similar to yours, but there is quite a bit to coordinate. The mix seemed to block almost every meter3 and this resulted in us having to take the flexible sections of concrete pipe apart fairly often, this is not an easy task when full of pump mix...resulting in a wheelbarrow of concrete every 3 meters across the garden all over the lawn; a lot of f'ing and blinding and tidying up afterwards.They always say they need you to provide a place to wash the pump out which is another few wheel barrows of concrete that you need to lose nearby!

Concrete delivery times in my experience are no more than a very rough quide....i mean by hours +/- and when you have a pump on site it can feel like an eternity...

Better than 100+ wheel barrows uphill 50 m though...

I would suggest an early start, be meticulous about your preparation, identify and resolve anything that could cause a problem, a load of cheap OSB sheets about 4 foot square under each pipe join and a quick chat with a local farmer or similar to use a spot for washup...

The resultant slab though for me is perfect. Very pleased. I have 100mm of celotex under mine whch keeps the cold off and seems to retain heat. Its about 2 years old and I have no cracks movement or otherwise.

I dont mean to put you off or state the obvious but i wish i had known the full details when i did mine!

Looks like a cracking project.

Kind regards,

Dan
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 10 Apr 2018, 17:46

Well the wet Easter did give me a couple of nice sunny days to get a start on the groundwork. Was starting to look ok but now ready for ducks
Image

Hopefully we’ll get some more dry weather soon


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Apr 2018, 18:00

Oo er. I can see a syphon might have to be employed if you've got any sort of grade.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 10 Apr 2018, 18:03

I have a grade at the moment however it will be flat with a step up to the other side of the garden. Just need to dig out the higher ground and level off. I had started doing this but my No. 2 son wanted to learn how a digger works, so I set him to work over the weekend


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 06 May 2018, 11:03

Well the good weather has allowed me to dig out most of the top soil down to solid ground. I have started thinking about hardcore to start filling it back in again.

I have a large amount of brick ends and broken slabs / crazy paving that were buried in the garden from a previous owner, would these and some recycled hardcore be suitable with Type 1 over the top to level it off prior to a sand layer

I have seen 6f2 recycled hardcore locally

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Rod » 06 May 2018, 11:22

Anything hard and broken should be suitable.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 08 May 2018, 14:06

Well I’m ready to lay the hardcore base down, but have a quick question for you guys.

Do I install the shuttering and then put the hardcore and concrete in that or do I lay a hardcore base and then fix shuttering over that as per the photo

Image

Oh decisions decisions


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Rod » 08 May 2018, 17:28

Hardcore then shuttering - you need to get the hardcore well tamped and stable.

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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby Mike G » 08 May 2018, 18:49

Either/ or. I generally put the shutting in first because with hardcore down it's hard to whack posts in where you want.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby jules70 » 08 May 2018, 22:48

Always prefer after so I can go round with my wacker plate without a care in the world ! knowing im not going to disturb any formwork when I lose concentration.
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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 09 May 2018, 10:56

Thanks guys

Hardcore is being delivered next Tuesday so I’ve got the weekend to consider both options for the shuttering


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Re: The Bike Workshop - Planning

Postby cadman_4 » 21 May 2018, 12:05

The hardcore is mostly in, first layer has been compacted ready for the next layer this week. Thoughts are moving onto the concrete now. I have been looking through the posts on here and the uk workshop and there seems to be some mention by MikeG regarding using steel reinforcing

My current soil is hard red clay with a layer maybe 1” of hard soil on top, on which I am laying the hardcore. Because of the clay, I read that I should have steel reinforcements placed towards the top of the concrete layer to counteract the movement of the clay

Any thoughts? The concrete I am going for will be circa 6” thick

Cheers

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