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Pete's Workshop Build

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 28 May 2020, 10:15

You definitely span across the short span. The ridge should run parallel with the long walls. There is nothing more jarring in architecture than seeing a roof the wrong way around on a building.

I know it's in common usage, and I know I am being pedantic, but what you were proposing previously was not a pent roof. It was a flat roof or a mono-pitched roof. A pent roof is built against an abutment.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Malc2098 » 28 May 2020, 11:25

If it helps, and you say you've gone through my photos, I used 22.5 degrees.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 28 May 2020, 13:38

Andyp wrote:Pete are you using an Apple device for taking photos. If so

**Photos taken on Apple devices have an annoying habit of not rotating properly when viewed on non apple platforms.
For best results take all your photos in landscape view with the volume control button at the bottom of the camera. If you have photos that have been taken in other orientations, then try bringing them into iPhoto and uploading them to the forum from there


It's Android on a Oneplus 6... Thanks for fixing the last one, will try and take them all Landscape in future
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 28 May 2020, 13:41

Mike G wrote:You definitely span across the short span. The ridge should run parallel with the long walls. There is nothing more jarring in architecture than seeing a roof the wrong way around on a building.

I know it's in common usage, and I know I am being pedantic, but what you were proposing previously was not a pent roof. It was a flat roof or a mono-pitched roof. A pent roof is built against an abutment.


Thanks, must be infuriating when us amateurs use such "loose" language!!!! But good to learn the proper terminology of course.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 28 May 2020, 13:50

Malc2098 wrote:If it helps, and you say you've gone through my photos, I used 22.5 degrees.


Thanks. I hadn't read the angle though in your posts - your building does looks great. A 20 degree angle on mine would give a ridge height of about 3.2m which would be ok I think.

Following Mike's Architectural input I clearly have the choice between a mono-pitched roof or a pitched roof the proper way round with a ridge height of 3.2m. Given that isn't much higher than than the front of the mono-pitch, perhaps I will bite the bullet...

One to ponder whilst I crack on with progressing two small house extensions and a large garden entirely mud-based...
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 28 May 2020, 14:18

Peteh wrote:....... I clearly have the choice between a mono-pitched roof or a pitched roof the proper way round with a ridge height of 3.2m. Given that isn't much higher than than the front of the mono-pitch, perhaps I will bite the bullet.......


It's even better than that, because the high point of the roof moves a couple of metres in from the front of the building to the middle, and that makes it appear far less imposing than a mono-pitched roof.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Coolhands » 29 May 2020, 20:04

If you go flat roof definitely don’t risk skinnier timbers. I’ve had the roof on my previous shed start to sag with that and it’s a mega pain in the backside. Go deeper despite the cost. Even at 400mm centres my current roof has the merest impression of sag, so don’t do it.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 08 Jul 2020, 22:34

Well there's been a lot going on with the landscaping, en-suite and porch extensions and the workshop has taken a back seat.

Finally though the brick and blockwork is complete. Mostly by my own fair hands but the house brickie had some spare time at the weekend and finished off the last bit.

Timber is now all on site apart from cladding.

Btw, the roof will be a pitched roof, with a 6x2 ridge beam and 6x2 rafters. Gonna be a sharp learning curve and SWMBO wants faster progress on the house!!!

Here's the plinth.

IMG_20200708_172236.jpg
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One lesson learnt. I built up the four corners and realised the mortar was crumbly. Turns out I'd used way too much plasticiser. Had to knock down and rebuild...
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 09 Jul 2020, 07:36

Looks great so far, Pete. I presume that you are having a floating floor, are you? I can't think of another reason for running the engineering bricks through across the doorway.

Could you describe your roof structure.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 09 Jul 2020, 09:01

Yes, a floating floor, 22mm chipboard on top of 50mm Celotex style insulation.

I haven't though as yet decided whether or not to put 50mm timber joists at 600mm intervals and around the edges for added strength. Problem is, the insulation is actually 50mm so normal finished timber isn't suitable because its around 45 - 47mm.

I just wish I could get to grips with Sketchup and I'd draw the roof but my drawing skills are rubbish!.

Anyhow, the roof will be closing following yours and Malc's build.

A 6x2 ridge beam supported by the end rafters which form a tie with the side walls. The rafters will also be 6x2 and tied part way up with 6x2 cross beams (correct term?). Not sure exactly where the ties will go (half way maybe?) and I'll probably leave 2 or 3 out for access.

The engineering bricks were left over and I thought they might help with the aesthetics as well as helping to stop any damp from the edge of the workshop.

We used them on the porch and it's worked out quite well. Of course these bricks were professionally laid by a talented brickie.

IMG_20200630_173004.jpg
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 09 Jul 2020, 13:45

There is danger with giving advice on the internet. What is OK for one circumstance may not suit another, or may be mis-interpreted. You really should have a slightly bigger ridge beam than 150mm. The more it spans (ie the more ties you remove), the bigger it needs to be. And as it stands, the bottom edge of your plumb cut on the rafter end will be flapping about in thin air, and it really needs a fixing there you restrain it from any tendency to twist. And there is a rule of thumb about raised ties.......they should be a maximum of one third of the way up the rafter. Above that and you start needing structural engineering calculations.

Anyway, this is relatively easy to fix at this stage, and you're going to end up with a super building.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 19 Jul 2020, 18:27

Started on the framing. Took 2 days to build the 8 frames.

IMG_20200719_162555.jpg
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Question on electrics. I'm thinking about running the cables through the timber frames. Any views on the drilling of holes through the framing?. I guess I would run the cable horizontally around the top (or maybe the bottom) of the shed with drops down (or up) the frame for sockets. Any concern over weakening the 2x4s?
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Malc2098 » 19 Jul 2020, 21:16

looking good.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 20 Jul 2020, 07:59

Peteh wrote:.......Question on electrics. I'm thinking about running the cables through the timber frames. Any views on the drilling of holes through the framing?. I guess I would run the cable horizontally around the top (or maybe the bottom) of the shed with drops down (or up) the frame for sockets. Any concern over weakening the 2x4s?


I wouldn't do this with a workshop, but not because of any weakness it might produce in the frame (which is negligible). For a start it compromises the insulation, but more importantly, it's potentially dangerous. In years to come no-one will know where the cables are, and whether it is you or the next owner, there are so many times that you stick a nail or a screw into a workshop wall that it simply isn't worth the risk. Surface mount them instead, meaning their location is clear and safe, and you have the bonus of being able to change or extend the circuits without destroying your workshop in the process.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 20 Jul 2020, 18:41

Malc2098 wrote:looking good.


Thanks.

I'm currently looking into roofing materials and basically want some kind of lightweight sheeting on top of OSB3. I've found some "Corotiles" which look similar to what you fitted. I think they claim a guarantee of 15 years so presumably the life expectancy is around 20 years.

I recall you use Anduline but I don't see them stocked anywhere so can't tell what the claimed longevity of them is. Any thoughts?

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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Andyp » 20 Jul 2020, 18:45

Surface mount the electrics either in your own wood boxing or plastic conduit. Makes rejigging the layout when new machines are bought a doodle. I have never regretted putting a socket in the floor either ( the only one that was not surface mounted :) )
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Malc2098 » 20 Jul 2020, 20:07

Peteh wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:looking good.


Thanks.

I'm currently looking into roofing materials and basically want some kind of lightweight sheeting on top of OSB3. I've found some "Corotiles" which look similar to what you fitted. I think they claim a guarantee of 15 years so presumably the life expectancy is around 20 years.

I recall you use Anduline but I don't see them stocked anywhere so can't tell what the claimed longevity of them is. Any thoughts?

Pete



Pete,

I used Aquapan. http://www.metrotile.eu/en/aquapan

For an amateur like me, it was easy, and the neighbours like it.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 22 Jul 2020, 14:11

Starting to get the roof built and we are wondering about continuing the roof overhang at the back of the workshop to provide covered space.

This will place the edge of the roof within 2m of the boundary. Does this mean it is no longer permitted development or is the 2m measured to the outside wall?
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 24 Jul 2020, 06:48

Pete, I'm afraid the answer is that it is any part of the building.

"If any part of the building, container or enclosure is within 2 metres of the boundary of the
curtilage of the house, then the height limit for the total development is restricted to 2.5
metres if it is to be permitted development.
"

From:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf

Why don't you build your roof with a normal overhang, then just under the eaves start a new lightweight roof with a separate light frame supporting it, so that if the council stamps its foot you could just remove the secondary structure without doing additional work to your main building.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 24 Jul 2020, 10:39

Mike G wrote:Pete, I'm afraid the answer is that it is any part of the building.

"If any part of the building, container or enclosure is within 2 metres of the boundary of the
curtilage of the house, then the height limit for the total development is restricted to 2.5
metres if it is to be permitted development.
"

From:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf

Why don't you build your roof with a normal overhang, then just under the eaves start a new lightweight roof with a separate light frame supporting it, so that if the council stamps its foot you could just remove the secondary structure without doing additional work to your main building.


Well, I will reduce the additional overhang but this is what our friendly Building Control Surveyor had to say on the subject!

"Hi Peter
I’ve always taken it to the wall elevation (and so does the building regs), and the planning portal information seems to confirm this. https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploa ... ldings.pdf "
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Mike G » 24 Jul 2020, 15:15

My post was a direct quote from the Planning Portal, and the thing you link to is the broad summary advice, saying nothing at all about where the measurements are taken.

Don't forget that Building Control has nothing whatever to do with Planning. You've just asked a tennis player about the offside rule in football.
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Peteh » 27 Jul 2020, 12:28

The weather isn't quite so good as it has been in recent weeks so progress is becoming a little slower.

The frames were all completed in a couple of days and put into place the following day. The folding wedges and the bed of mortar worked out really well.

The roof is a much slower entity altogether. I'm working on my own and have tried placing the rafters individually and also as a built unit of two rafters and their cross tie. I don't know which is easier but I'm sticking with the individual pieces of wood due to the weights involved for one person.

I've found the best method for placing the cross ties is to use left over removal strapping which holds the cross members nicely and allows easy height adjustment by sliding up and down the rafters.

Maybe I didn't need to be using 6x2 cross ties but too late for a change now as only two left to pop up. Tomorrow's job as it's a bit wet today!

Thanks to Malcom for his Workshop blog - I think mine's going to bear many similarities!
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2020, 12:49

The software doesn't allow a thumbs up emoji.

So.... Thumbs Up!
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Andyp » 27 Jul 2020, 12:58

Image
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cheers
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Re: Pete's Workshop Build

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2020, 13:27

Andyp wrote:Image



Thanks, Andy. I get a HUGE Error page come up when I use my in house Mac emojis!
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