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Diesel Ban

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Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 12:37

I found this interesting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... l_vehicles

There is going to be a complete ban on all Diesel vehicles in just 7 years time in,
Athens, Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, Paris and Rome. Given the dreadful air quality in our capital why are Londoners having to wait until 2040 just for a ban on new ICE car sales?

Richard Branson was on the TV this morning (which prompted me to look) saying we need to bring this forward, 2040 is much too late.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 12:58

Interesting point. Here's a thought. Rural areas ...just wondering how quickly (if ever) there are charging points installed for public access. Or that there is the necessary investment in the rural electrical infrastructure to support 'at home' charging. Of course I am worrying unnecessarily. After all, just look at how successful mobile coverage in rural areas is. And high speed broadband.

Well, we can always rely on public transport. :eusa-whistle:
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 13:03

And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 13:20

RogerS wrote:And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.


Not sure if that’s being defeatist or not really. It’s been put forward for example that every parking space at places like supermarkets could have charging points.

Buying petrol for the early automobiles was a real PITA for the first 20 odd years as there weren’t any petrol stations but they managed somehow! :lol:
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 14:27

Woodster wrote:
RogerS wrote:And from a Paper from the National Grid

In a survey 57% of households had access to off street parking and it is assumed that 43% did not. With 20 million EVs on the road that means that there will be 8.6 million vehicles without the necessary facilities to charge from home. So these consumers will require alternative charging facilities.


Not sure if that’s being defeatist or not really. It’s been put forward for example that every parking space at places like supermarkets could have charging points.

Buying petrol for the early automobiles was a real PITA for the first 20 odd years as there weren’t any petrol stations but they managed somehow! :lol:


Read the article where they are exploring possible solutions.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 10 Jun 2018, 16:18

This so called “insight” makes the same primary mistake, one of range.

In the first paragraph:

“But if all cars were electric and they were to have the range of today’s petrol and diesel cars”

Most modern cars have a range of about 500 miles but how many people drive that distance in one go?
Very very very few would be my guess.

If you divide the average mileage UK drivers do each year.

https://www.thinkmoney.co.uk/news-advic ... 8581-0.htm

By the number of journeys they make I suspect that the vast majority of drivers don’t need anywhere near the range of a current petrol or diesel car. This doesn’t help the 1% of drivers that do but we can’t let them dictate what happens in the future.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby RogerS » 10 Jun 2018, 16:43

A fair point but I think you are ignoring the psychology. If it was questionable whether or not you would be able to easily charge up your car whenever you wanted to then you would want a reserve of charge in your battery. That after all is what this is about. Having a big battery gives you that 'comfort factor'.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Tusses » 10 Jun 2018, 19:17

I still don't get why EV bodies are not made from PV panels ? surly every little helps ?

anyway .. as a classic car fan , I'm worried about the possible ban of petrol and diesel from the roads.
One of my business plans is to restore and cater for classic cars .. but for several years now I've been putting this further back on the plausible list with fears of it's longevity ??
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Tusses » 10 Jun 2018, 19:19

as to charging EV's .. will diesel gennies be banned too ? :lol:
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 10 Jun 2018, 19:39

I often do a trip to Yorkshire and need a range of about 250 miles.
A reviewer of the new Jag Ipace (it has a range of 230) reckons folks would run two cars, an electric for local journeys and a conventional engine for long journeys.
The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jun 2018, 21:25

There’s no way I’d get from Devon to Aberdeen to visit family this week efficiently if I didn’t have diesel car that routinely does 60mpg!

A very interesting tv programme showing just how much the world relies on the Diesel engine is accessible from this website.

https://www.markevans.co.uk/television/the-engine-that-powers-the-world/
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 28 Jun 2018, 14:17

On the news today. BP Goes Electric.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44640647

There were two interesting points mentioned on the BBC news this lunchtime. The first was that about half of forecourt income are “non fuel” sales which surprised me. I also didn’t know that BP rebranded some years ago as “Beyond Petroleum” :D
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodbloke » 28 Jun 2018, 20:42

Rod wrote:The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

Rod

I suspect this is perhaps the biggest area of angst with the current range of electrickeral batteries. I've no doubt that the 'boffins' are burning the midnight oil (what's left of it :D) to produce a much more efficient battery. When it does happen, you can wave 'adios' to the suck, squeeze, bang, blow ic motor...that though does leave the unanswered question of diesel engines as used in heavy lorries and the like. What's going to happen to them in the future? - Rob
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby 9fingers » 28 Jun 2018, 20:56

Woodbloke wrote:
Rod wrote:The batteries are a fire risk, fade over time, are incredibly heavy, are very cold weather sensitive and take a long time to charge.
They will need preheating in winter and are best kept inside a garage.

Rod

though does leave the unanswered question of diesel engines as used in heavy lorries and the like. What's going to happen to them in the future? - Rob


Exackerly Rob. I just cant see an electric 44 tonner unless it has 20 tonnes of batteries and only 24t payload.

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Mike G » 28 Jun 2018, 21:14

And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station. Unless we can magic up a 30 or 40% increase in electric supply (and remember how close we came in the winter to having outages?), a wholesale changeover to electric vehicles is not on the cards.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby stu » 28 Jun 2018, 21:21

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station. Unless we can magic up a 30 or 40% increase in electric supply (and remember how close we came in the winter to having outages?), a wholesale changeover to electric vehicles is not on the cards.
It must be easier to deal with a single emissions point than hundreds of thousand of them driving around the country?

Isn't graphene supposed to be the answer to the batteries when they can sort out production?

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 28 Jun 2018, 22:49

At the moment the total energy production and pollutant “cost” for the electric cars are greater than those for petrol vehicles.

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Phil » 29 Jun 2018, 07:06

Interesting topic.

What are the motor vehicles suppliers going to do in places like Africa where a huge portion of the population don’t even have power in their houses, let alone in the remote rural areas?

"You want to charge your what?!"

Then in RSA we sit with the power utility (monopoly) who gave us rolling blackouts the other day? And not many years ago daily blackouts?
How do you keep your ‘leccy’ car running?
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Rod » 29 Jun 2018, 09:11

A few years ago I was working on a major highway scheme in Accra, Ghana. The construction of a 3 lane dual carriageway with a central light railway running through the centre of the town.
The Ghanaians import “MOT” failures from Europe so the heavily congested roads are full of stationary vehicles kicking out noxious fumes.
The environmentally friendly railway part was scrapped due to cost but I suppose they will have an even bigger supply of scrapped cars available when our scapaged systems come into play.

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodster » 30 Jun 2018, 10:43

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station.


Emissions? From nuclear? And what about wind and solar? Even gas powered stations likely only give off CO2 not the filthy particulates from Diesel cars. There are new technologies coming out all the time not just for production but also storage.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGsbq6QnnU
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby selectortone » 30 Jun 2018, 10:55

Mike G wrote:And all this misses the point that electric vehicles simply move the emissions from the exhaust pipe to the cooling tower of the power station.


Power station cooling towers emit water vapour.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby stu » 30 Jun 2018, 10:58

Phil wrote:Interesting topic.

What are the motor vehicles suppliers going to do in places like Africa where a huge portion of the population don’t even have power in their houses, let alone in the remote rural areas?

"You want to charge your what?!"

Then in RSA we sit with the power utility (monopoly) who gave us rolling blackouts the other day? And not many years ago daily blackouts?
How do you keep your ‘leccy’ car running?
Maybe you review your usage?

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Andyp » 30 Jun 2018, 19:26

I do wonder if there has already been too much investment in lecky cars to reverse the decision. Personally I would like to see more done with hydrogen or other fuels.
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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby Woodbloke » 01 Jul 2018, 10:01

Andyp wrote:I do wonder if there has already been too much investment in lecky cars to reverse the decision.

A huge problem with eleckriceral cars is also that they produce no noise what so ever; even at slow speeds there's no tyre noise so you can't hear the things coming. I was in Waitrose car park the other day and nearly got mown down by a yummy mummy in some Toyboata thingie as I just didn't hear it :evil:

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Re: Diesel Ban

Postby 9fingers » 01 Jul 2018, 10:10

I heard something on the wireless a few month back suggesting that manufacturers were considering some synthetic brrm brrm sound effects to reduce this problem.

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