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Hammer C3-31

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Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 04 Jun 2018, 17:11

Tool porn time. :D

Lots of bits. The incredibly heavy spindle moulder fence assembly is in the background. I opted for the top-end version that allows you to remove it and then replace it without losing your settings. IMO essential for a combination machine.

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Digital readout gauges waiting to go in two of the control wheels (thicknesser and spindle)

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Thicknesser mode

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and dust extractor hood in place

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Silent spiral cutter block...I can't believe just how quiet it is compared to normal blades.

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And perhaps my favourite bit is the sliding table.

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Moving on...

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and on...

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and in the other direction too

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All assembled and ready to go to work

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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Andyp » 04 Jun 2018, 17:15

So you are not going to take it off the pallet then?
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 04 Jun 2018, 17:23

Andyp wrote:So you are not going to take it off the pallet then?


Not at the moment. I'm going to cut away the pallet excess though.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jun 2018, 17:43

Nice.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Rod » 04 Jun 2018, 18:57

Not envious at all!

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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby TrimTheKing » 05 Jun 2018, 23:17

Mmmmmm, lovely!
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby decas » 07 Jun 2018, 14:21

Roger

Very nice!

Remember I said I couldn’t rely on the crosscut fence staying square. That’s one of the reasons I had pretty much stopped using the saw. Well they have redesigned the setting stop and the fence clamp. There is an upgrade kit which I have fitted to my machine and it is much better. I can rely on the setting staying put when I take the fence on and off.
This is the kit: http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Sawing/Acce ... am=503-168

Looking at your photos it looks like your table has the original setting stop which is crap. I think the new design was introduced last year so I would have expected your new machine to have it.

If you want some background then watch this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kH3U58RYnkw

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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 07 Jun 2018, 15:16

Hi Dave

Much appreciated thanks. Will take a decko at your links and compare to mine. Do/did you have the digital gauge on yours ?
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby decas » 07 Jun 2018, 16:09

I have the digital gauge on the thicknesser. It is excellent.

I still have the machine. With the fence upgrade I now feel confident I will get accurate results off the saw and have started using it again. So maybe I’ll keep it a while longer........

The workshop looks good, enjoy.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 07 Jun 2018, 16:51

decas wrote:I have the digital gauge on the thicknesser. It is excellent.

I still have the machine. With the fence upgrade I now feel confident I will get accurate results off the saw and have started using it again. So maybe I’ll keep it a while longer........

The workshop looks good, enjoy.
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Yup..I have one on mine as well and very clear how to set it up. But I also decided to put one on the spindle moulder. Short of scribbling down settings each time I can't see how it can be used other than as a relative position indicator.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 16 Jun 2018, 10:48

Spoke to Felder who assure me that I have the latest version.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby decas » 16 Jun 2018, 18:19

This is the setting stop I now have fitted to my table.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 18 Jun 2018, 13:01

Hi Dave

As you correctly pointed out mine is the 'standard' 90 degree stop.

IMG_20180617_124847.jpg
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it does seem rather bizarre that this item and the 'new' crosscut fence mounting gizmo form an optional extra kit but that one part of this kit is supplied with new machines as standard...viz the crosscut fence support.

The reply from Felder is informative...if I fully understood it !

All machines for the last year or so have been fitted with the new mounting bracket. As shown in below photo. So chap on forum is kind of right. I can assure you that you have the newly designed mounting bracket. The 90 degree stop that is included in this pack (503-168) does not come as standard. This is a part that has come about due to some customers requiring to remove their cross cut fence all the time. Once the standard 90 degree stop is set and you do not need to remove the cross cut fence all the time, then the standard stop will give the accuracy required. However if you are always removing the fence to save space and for storage then it can be a hassle to keep having to set up the standard 90 degree stop each time. This optional kit (503-168) can help with this by offering less set up time when reattaching the cross cut fence.

Since I will be keeping the crosscut fence off most of the time, I don't quite understand his reference to "to keep having to set up the standard 90 degree stop each time". Can you shed any light ? As far as I can see the two 90 degree stops seem to function the same way.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Halo Jones » 18 Jun 2018, 14:47

Marius Hornberger had a similar problem with his Hammer machine? His solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfokxM-DGw
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 18 Jun 2018, 15:22

Ah, that's a brilliant link, thanks HJ. Really explains it in great detail. Now to go back to Felder and push for a decent 90 degree stop.

I think they should call the original one - 'SlopStop'.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby decas » 18 Jun 2018, 22:43

Hi Roger

You’re getting there. Marius Hornburger has published two videos about this. The link in my first post is to his second one where he describes being approached by Felder and introduces the updated design. It was these videos alerted me to the availability of the updated setting stop and clamp.

I cannot understand why Felder should develop an improvement and then not implement it in all subsequent machines. It makes no sense......... You don’t have to be mounting and demounting the fence to disturb the setting with the original design: just bumping it with a lump of timber or when you walk past is enough to throw it out.

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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Halo Jones » 19 Jun 2018, 09:59

Dave - I didn't realise you had already linked to Marius's follow up video. I just saw the last pic that Roger showed and it rang bells in my head.

For such an expensive piece of equipment it does seem to be a major design flaw. And a relatively easy fix too!
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 19 Jun 2018, 10:35

Halo Jones wrote:Dave - I didn't realise you had already linked to Marius's follow up video. I just saw the last pic that Roger showed and it rang bells in my head.

For such an expensive piece of equipment it does seem to be a major design flaw. And a relatively easy fix too!


Absolutely. It's bizarre that Felder should continue to provide the vastly inferior SlopStop when they acknowledged that it was a poor design and invited Marius to the factory to discuss the redesign. You can buy the improved version for around £65 all in which seems to me a bit steep given that it comes as part of a two part pack containing the improved crosscut fence mounting plate for £96 all in.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Andyp » 19 Jun 2018, 11:46

By virtue of their reply on that video Felder have been aware of a design flaw of over a year. I think you have a very good case for request an upgrade FOC.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 03 Jul 2018, 07:18

I tried but they didn't budge.

So...after using the Hammer in anger a little, basically it is a right PITA.

Pro's

Small footprint compared to separates

That's it.

Con's

The way the aluminium fence is fixed means that it flexes too much at the remote end especially on the planer. This is no different from all the other P/T's out there that have the fence fixed at just one end. The lovely cast iron solid fence on my old Sedgwick MB was fixed at the centre and never budged.

The fence is not perfectly square on the P/T at 90 degrees to the bed and I can't see a way to fix it. It's only a gnats out so I'll probably live with it. I can't see Felder helping out based on their response to the SlopStop.

The P/T tables are slightly dished. Not got my feeler gauges to hand and so can't say by how much. I can slide a piece of paper underneath the straight edge. Mind you, no idea on what they say their tolerances are. Again, based on experience with the SlopStop I'm not even going to bother to raise it with them.

The sliding table is aluminium which means that if I wanted to I can't use the Magswitches.

You really have to get your workflow spot on because changing between functions especially between planer and thicknesser is a right ball-ache. I never liked those P/Ts where you have to swing the tables up and out to move between modes. Compare and contrast .........

Sedgwick MB P > T

Undo extraction pipe from chip collector
Remove chip collector from the thicknesser table and put on top of the tables to cover the cutter block.
Refit extraction pipe - (same end of the machine)
Adjust thicknesser bed to desired height.
Job done

Hammer P > T

Undo extraction pipe
Remove rip fence from table saw and find somewhere to store it
Remove fence from P/T and find somewhere to store it (or pull it forward on the rail and lock off)
Undo infeed/outfeed table clamps.
Lift up infeed/outfeed tables
Lock in the up position
Swing chip collector up and into thicknesser mode
Pick up end of extraction pipe and walk all the way round the machine to the other end and connect to chip collector.
Pull lever to put it into thicknesser mode ( a very hard action against a very strong spring)
Now wind up the thicknesser bed to the right height. Bear in mind that you previously had to wind the thicknesser bed all the way down towards the bottom ...around 170mm + ...to swing the chip collector into planer mode. And now, since most of my work is with considerably thinner stuff ...say 60mm or less...you have to wind the thicknesser bed all the way back up to the top. Knowing full well that when you want to go back to planer mode, you have to wind it all the way back down again. A right bloody faff and a PITA. :evil:

When I started out down this route the reason for buying the combination machine was because I was led to believe that I could easily connect an inverter to the Hammer because of my poor mains supply. A 1:1 relationship between machine and inverter thus requiring a combination machine or having to buy several inverters if I went the separates route. As it turned out there was no practical way of getting into the Hammer to connect it up to the inverter and so I had to go out and buy a rotary converter.

A rotary converter means that I could have gone and bought three lovely separate secondhand 3 phase machines - Sedgwick, Wadkin, Altendorf ...whatever...and still had change out of what I shelled out for the Hammer.

Isn't hindsight wonderful ?
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby Phil » 03 Jul 2018, 16:21

Not quite sure what to say about the machine, sorry it is such a PITA. :(

Personally I would have bought individual machines, maybe at a cost. Not heard much good about the combinations.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 08:39

This is what 3.5m of infeed/outfeed table looks like :)

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Then you realise you have to take it all apart to get into thicknessing mode. Boy, how I loathe flip-top P/T's...such a PITA.

Also decided to press the Camvac into operation for the table saw extraction so as to keep the dust separate from the chippings out of the P/T. That way I can give the chippings away much more easily as they will be relatively dust free.
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Re: Hammer C3-31

Postby RogerS » 01 Aug 2018, 04:30

decas wrote:I have the digital gauge on the thicknesser. It is excellent.

I still have the machine. With the fence upgrade I now feel confident I will get accurate results off the saw and have started using it again. So maybe I’ll keep it a while longer........

The workshop looks good, enjoy.
Dave



Doh :eusa-doh: I've just realised who you are! Is yours still for sale as I see someone over on WWUK is after one.
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