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Framing a stained glass panel

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Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 17 May 2019, 11:41

Morning all

The round window in my workshop is currently still plugged with 400mm insulation while we decided what to do within it. Wife and I both had the same idea of a stained glass panel, and she wanted to design and buy it for me as a Birthday/Christmas present, but as with everything to do with this workshop, life gets in the way of speedy progress (no jokes required Andy... ;)).

Life has continued to be somewhat turbulent recently and the wife is currently seeking new employment, so belts have been tightened to compensate. Despite that she still want to go ahead with it to help get the workshop completed.

With the above in mind, and also her desire to re-kindle her creative side (she's very artistically talented but because of work, kids and life being generally busy she has neglected herself in that respect) so we were sat a few weeks ago, watching telly and chatting, and I said "Instead of paying nearly £700 for someone to make and frame it to your design, why not see if there's a stained glass course on anywhere nearby and do it yourself. That way you'll get what you want, learn a new craft and go some way to getting your creativity back on track?".

We sat idly browsing on our devices to see what there was and luckily there's a weekend long course not 10 miles from us, so she got in touch with them to see whether what she wanted to do was achievable. I am a born and bred Mancunian (with some of my youth spent in Scotland but my formative years as a Manc) and have always loved Manchester Town Hall with its worker bee symbolism.

After the bombing of the Manchester Arena a couple of years ago the bee took on an even more symbolic role as a sign of togetherness and determination, with tattoo parlours offering free bee tattoo's (free being £20 fee with all monies being paid to the charities helping with the aftermath), bumper stickers and all sorts being displayed as a sign of Mancunian defiance against terror (I know none of that will stop the issues, but that's what we as humans do).

So back to the window, she decided she wanted to do a bee and had a design in mind. When she contacted the course leaders to discuss the possibility, the lady she spoke to couldn't have been more helpful and said, excitedly, that the girl running the course LOVED bees and would be delighted to help my Mrs achieve what she wanted! Bingo.

Fast Forward a few weeks and she's doing the course this weekend. She asked me to get her the measurements of the opening, what size the panel should be etc, so she can scale everything.

So, the opening is a little rough and varying between 810mm - 840mm at its narrowest/widest points. My plan, and this is where I need your help and advice, was to make a frame for the outer skin of the wall, and put a standard DGU into that, then just a simple frame in the inner wall skin to house the stained glass.

So what challenges are there with that? Some of my thoughts below:

1. Condensation etc between the stained glass and DGU? - Could be mitigated with vents in the inner frame?
2. Maximising the light (minimising light loss) by keeping the inner frame as light as possible - Thought on this was to make the inner frame 800mm dia * 30-40mm thick * 50mm deep then rebate out a 20mm rebate all the way round the inner edge to hold the glass, then a small bead to hold it in place.

So, can you think of :

1. Any other issues with my proposal of a double window setup?
2. do the frame dimensions look okay? Too big? Too small?
3. Anything else I've missed or any other suggestions?

Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2019, 12:55

So long as you ventilate the void between the two, there should be no issue with your proposed 2+1 glazing arrangement. I have similar in mind with my proposed leaded lights to my porch.

As to the dimensions.....that's a tricky one. I'm still not completely clear as to the junction detail between the edge lead cames and the rebate. You don't want to bury too much of your leaded light behind wood, but you also don't want it just hanging in there by its fingernails. I'd like to see lead at the edges, but I don't know how this is to be achieved. My suggestion is to send your wife off with a template of the hole, and a good sketch with dimensions of what you are proposing, and let them advise her on the course. Or even go along yourself for the first little bit, just to discuss the opening requirements/ size of glass issue.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 17 May 2019, 13:25

Thanks Mike

Maybe the best bet then is to give her a dimension to work to, say 760mm dia, then when she comes back with it I can lay that on an un-rebated frame, trace around it and rebate out a snug rebate that matches the irregularity of the cames, leaving say a 5mm support all the way around, then put a back frame over that to hold it in place...

That will give me an approximate 50mm frame all the way round, and only cover the edge cames.
Going along will be a struggle as I will have both the kids and am coaching football until the afternoon so probably not a goes. Might send some questions along though to get answered on your query.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby MY63 » 17 May 2019, 16:47

I cant offer any constructive assistance but it is a fantastic idea and the fact your wife is going to make it for you makes it even better.
I hope your wife finds suitable employment soo well after she has finished your window :D
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Malc2098 » 17 May 2019, 17:52

MY63 wrote:I cant offer any constructive assistance but it is a fantastic idea and the fact your wife is going to make it for you makes it even better.
I hope your wife finds suitable employment soo well after she has finished your window :D



:text-+1:

:text-bravo:

:text-goodpost:
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Andyp » 17 May 2019, 18:00

Mark it has taken more more than a year for me not to finish a fancy fence trellis arbour thing. God only know how long it would take me to build a workshop.
Work isn’t everything, if you are both able too then a battery recharge for one of you might do you both a power of good.
Hope things work out.
cheers

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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 17 May 2019, 23:33

Thanks Michael - Yeah I’m really excited about to be honest. I was happy for her to buy one but the fact she’s now making it will make it so much more special it will be great.

Andy - I’m just joshjng mate, I don’t mind the ribbing one bit. I looked back the other day and it was December 2015 we got planning, June 2019 we broke ground and it’s been watertight for 9 months, and I’m still not properly in!!! I deserve everything I get!!

EDIT : just noticed this! :lol: Obviously it wasn't 2019, 2017 more like! :lol:
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Phil » 18 May 2019, 08:15

MY63 wrote:I cant offer any constructive assistance but it is a fantastic idea and the fact your wife is going to make it for you makes it even better.
I hope your wife finds suitable employment soo well after she has finished your window :D



:text-+1:

Excellent idea, especially designing and making. Nice and personal.

(btw have you been watching too many "Back to the future" movies? June 2019 we broke ground )

:D
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Doug » 18 May 2019, 08:34

Have you considered putting the stained glass panel inside the double glazed unit, save you a lot of work.
I recently made some glazing beading for a chap who had done just this, he wanted double glazing but his wife wanted to keep the stain glass that was original to the house, a really great compromise.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 18 May 2019, 08:55

Doug wrote:Have you considered putting the stained glass panel inside the double glazed unit, save you a lot of work.
I recently made some glazing beading for a chap who had done just this, he wanted double glazing but his wife wanted to keep the stain glass that was original to the house, a really great compromise.


Hi Doug

Yes I considered that but spoke with someone (admittedly just a mate) who said he’d got a quote for similar and it was stupidly expensive. I’m talking £3k for 2 DGU’s!!

I’ll do some of my own research now though just to see how much it would be. That would indeed be much easier.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby techauthorbob » 19 May 2019, 19:26

We had the bay window leaded lights encapsulated in one of our Lancashire lets.

No regrets whatsoever and no problems at all, it keeps the original look and is much better than plain windows. No sign of deterioration or discolouration even after several years.

We try to keep up to our properties and regard the extra for the encapsulation as money well spent.

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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 19 May 2019, 19:26

Long first day for the wife yesterday, 10:00 - 17:00.

Started with laying out the drawing...

Image

Then cutting her first piece of glass...

Image

Then closed out the day here...

Image

She was going to do the legs as separate pieces too but was advised otherwise given the time constraints so is painting those on. Not her preference but needs must in the time.

Sadly she got there this morning to find that all the painted pieces had warped and shrunk, she was gutted!

Communication is sporadic as she’s nose to the grindstone (metaphorically and literally) but she had only just started the soldering at 17:50 and finished one side by 19:00 so it will be 20:30 before she’s home I imagine.

Results to follow...
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Malc2098 » 19 May 2019, 19:38

Wow!!
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Woodbloke » 19 May 2019, 20:49

This is going to be something very special! - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 19 May 2019, 21:04

Well she’s disappointed that the glass got messed up because they set the kiln too hot and she lost 2 hours trying to fix it, and had to modify the design a bit from the pic above to fix their cock up, but I still think it’s bloody brilliant and a very nice anniversary gift to me!

Image

Image
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Malc2098 » 19 May 2019, 21:30

Bloody brilliant!
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby MY63 » 19 May 2019, 21:32

The cock up fairy visits everyone from time to time focus on the beautiful gift your wife has made for you
It looks great.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Rod » 19 May 2019, 23:39

Just the Beezness.

Well done, I’m amazed your better half managed to do all that in a weekend.
Looks really good.

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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Andyp » 20 May 2019, 06:19

Yep. Very nice :text-bravo:
cheers

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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Doug » 20 May 2019, 07:37

That’s great especially considering it’s your GLW’s first attempt :eusa-clap:
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Woodbloke » 20 May 2019, 08:32

MY63 wrote:The cock up fairy visits everyone from time to time ...
It looks great.

Agreed; I know all about them :cry:

Fantastic job Trim; 'er indoors should be well chuffed - Rob
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby Phil » 20 May 2019, 09:21

Yes! Very nice.
Will look good installed.
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 20 May 2019, 09:29

Cheers chaps. I'm delighted with it and all the more so because she made it with her own hands.

She's not as happy as she could be because it's not as good as she knows she could have done, because of the studio's cock up with the kiln, so yes she's proud but tinged with disappointment because she had cut the glass perfectly only for someone else to mess it up, but once it's cemented, the leg painting touched up and the lead blackened it will look brilliant!

It's not the full size of the opening because that would have been too much work, so I'm going to make something like the below to mount it in the centre of, which I think will look great. Imagine the below frame being 800mm dia, with a bigger central circle (circa 550mm) containing the panel and the outside lights being 100mm deep. I will make the frame in oak and leave the outer lights un-glazed, which will allow the necessary ventilation and also keep the focus on the panel.

Frame.jpeg
(94.62 KiB)
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Jun 2019, 22:28

Little update, wife has been busy since making the panel but back now and cementing it up today. The cement is mixed then pushed into the gaps between glass and lead with the sides of a toothbrush bristles. It’s then covered in dry plaster to help soak up the oils and dry it.

After an hour you use a pointed dowel around the insides of all joints to remove the excess then clean up the glass. Flip onto the other side and repeat.

Last job once she’s finished that is to wire brush the cement and lead then use lead blacking to Black it up.

Image

Image
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Re: Framing a stained glass panel

Postby MY63 » 02 Jun 2019, 22:40

It looks fantastic you should both be proud of what you have produced the window and workshop should last for many years.
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