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Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 12 Jul 2019, 17:33

While the sun moved round the workshop, I took the opportunity to establish the distance from foot of Strong-Tie to level with top of workshop plate, so I can mark the length of the post including the joint and the beam onto the story stick.

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Rod » 12 Jul 2019, 21:32

That joint looks all wrong to me.
As it will be undercover, take the vertical to the top and mortise the two horizontals in. Mitring the Ends where they meet inside.

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 12 Jul 2019, 22:28

Rod wrote:That joint looks all wrong to me.
As it will be undercover, take the vertical to the top and mortise the two horizontals in. Mitring the Ends where they meet inside.

Rod


I can't agree, Rod. The bottom of the horizontal beam has to be supported by the post, not its tenon. That's why the rafter is set in a little way. That's how the rafter is supported, and the tenon, pegged of course, keeps it there.

From my limited research, the tenon should not be a bearing surface.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Jul 2019, 12:36

It seems I made a rookie mistake in my first attempt. I measured stuff as if the post/beam were perfectly square. As a result, because they weren't square, nothing fitted as well as it could, and the M&T were out of parallel with the beam.

I've tried to read up again, and MikeG would obviously know this bit, but inside each irregular milled beam is a perfectly sized one. So, so long as I have a one face and its edge square to each other, then I only ever measure from those references, and inset those opposite by a small amount. Those references are intended to be the outside of the building. Think that's the idea. I hope it is.

This is the revised drawing I've made. The beam rests on the post and the post's tenon locates it (with pegs eventually). The rafter tie rests on the post and its tenon locates it (with pegs eventually).
BTW, this is from the online version of sketchup.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 15 Jul 2019, 18:39

Second attempt, based on the design above.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Jul 2019, 17:24

One set of knee brace tenons cut.

Now into uncharted territory to cut the mortises.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Coley » 26 Jul 2019, 21:23

Malc, this is some first class joinery

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Jul 2019, 21:31

Coley wrote:Malc, this is some first class joinery

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Thanks, Coley, but me and Youtube are on first name terms at the moment. This really is uncharted territory for me.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Andyp » 27 Jul 2019, 09:35

Malc, I am intrigued.

I cut my tenons like this with the tenon edges at right angles to the shoulder.
Image

You have cut yours with one edge parallel to the edge of the brace. Why? is this for strength? To get it to fit in the mortice wont they be a big gap?
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2019, 11:40

Andy,

I don't know the answer to that. I'm just following framing advice on the net.

I suspect it's to add strength, because the brace is inset by about 10mm and that L shaped bearing surface you can see in the photo on the end of the brace would need meat behind it to deal with compressive loads or it might fracture the tenon.

The mortise is also cut at an angle and so the tenon fills the mortise.

I've used my little mortise machine to cut the main mortise and then made stepped cuts with it to remove as much as possible before chiselling out the angle.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby TrimTheKing » 27 Jul 2019, 12:27

Why would there be a gap Andy? The mortice should be cut with an angle to match the tenon, so it's effectively a haunch on the tenon.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2019, 12:33

This is my first one after the practice. Still need more practice!
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Andyp » 27 Jul 2019, 14:17

Malc2098 wrote:Andy,

I don't know the answer to that. I'm just following framing advice on the net.

I suspect it's to add strength, because the brace is inset by about 10mm and that L shaped bearing surface you can see in the photo on the end of the brace would need meat behind it to deal with compressive loads or it might fracture the tenon.

The mortise is also cut at an angle and so the tenon fills the mortise.

I've used my little mortise machine to cut the main mortise and then made stepped cuts with it to remove as much as possible before chiselling out the angle.


Fair enough Malc. Is is the fact that you are cutting a angled mortice that stumped me. A lot of extra work but I can see that it will be worth it.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Andyp » 27 Jul 2019, 14:19

Malc2098 wrote:This is my first one after the practice. Still need more practice!
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That looks excellent. Dont forget gaps will open up anyway when the wood dries out.
cheers

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2019, 15:00

Andyp wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:This is my first one after the practice. Still need more practice!
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That looks excellent. Dont forget gaps will open up anyway when the wood dries out.


Thanks, Andy. You can tell the weather, I can save it the trouble! :D
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Andyp » 27 Jul 2019, 15:11

I knew I was not the only one to do it that way.

Mike G wrote:
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cheers

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 27 Jul 2019, 17:50

Nowhere near as good as it could be. But I'm new to this.

One bent nearly complete. I've got to cut out the cross tie mortises and cut the posts to length so it matches the height of the existing wall plate.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Aug 2019, 17:35

Starting to get the post and beam frame together. I've made four braces and their joints so far.

I've just tried out the ties to check the horizontal framework for square and will incorporate them in trusses at either end. I made up four miniature posts to try them out with. The beams and ties rest exclusively on the top os the posts, and their tenons are only used to locate them. They will be dowelled on Raising day.

I've got two more trusses to make for the far end of the deck. I am hoping the combination of ridge beam, rafters etc connected to the main roof will prevent wracking at the building end. And in any case. I wouldn't be able to open the doors with braces that end.

Not entirely happy with the Simpson Strong Ties. The instructions say a 5mm slot for the blade and 13mm holes for dowels, and everything's a bit loose. I expect the posts to shrink a little, but not that much.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby MY63 » 03 Aug 2019, 21:50

I think it is fantastic Malcolm
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Robert » 03 Aug 2019, 22:55

Very nice :)

What is it?

Can you tell I've not been keeping up with the thread?
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Andyp » 04 Aug 2019, 07:35

Robert wrote:Very nice :)

What is it?

Can you tell I've not been keeping up with the thread?


Thinking the same thing. I did look back a dozen or so pages hoping to find a plan, without success.

If there is movement in those post supports could you replace one or two of the metal dowels with bolts to pinch up the slot? Or will that spoil the aesthetic?
cheers

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Aug 2019, 10:20

MY63 wrote:I think it is fantastic Malcolm



Thank you, Michael.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Aug 2019, 10:25

Robert wrote:Very nice :)

What is it?

Can you tell I've not been keeping up with the thread?


Thank you, Robert, but Keep up, please. :)

Lying on the deck are the two posts and braces for one of the bents. The others are lying down on the other side of the deck. They will hold up the beams and ties at plate level so I can build an intersecting roof into the workshop roof, thus covering the deck.

It's a bit of a timber framing project so I could work more with wood rather than nailing and screwing bits of wood together. It's stretched me, but it's been satisfying.
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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby 9fingers » 04 Aug 2019, 10:26

Robert wrote:Very nice :)

What is it?

Can you tell I've not been keeping up with the thread?


It's like this Robert. After Malcolm found a way of keeping the workshop door from closing and how much of a nuisance that was, he has now devised a method of keeping the doors closed and is trying that out for convenience as a comparison. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Malcolm's Garden Workshop (Phase 2 begins!)

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Aug 2019, 10:28

Andyp wrote:
Robert wrote:Very nice :)

What is it?

Can you tell I've not been keeping up with the thread?


Thinking the same thing. I did look back a dozen or so pages hoping to find a plan, without success.

If there is movement in those post supports could you replace one or two of the metal dowels with bolts to pinch up the slot? Or will that spoil the aesthetic?


Please seem my reply above to Robert, Andy.

I haven't had any plans as such. I've had to research all the joints and have got drawings of those to help me.

I can make the slots narrower for the blade. I can do them on the bandsaw in the 'shop with a roller stand supporting the other end. But I shall contact Simpson's customer service dept and see if they are supposed to be that sloppy. I shall also measure my 13mm auger to see if it's maybe a bit generous.
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