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The Orangerie - glulam specifying

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Coley » 05 Jul 2018, 21:56

Despite that thread being so long there's only a couple people that have posted any pictures of the paint in use. Yours is the only one I've read about and seen that has a consistent colour- you must be doing something right

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Ahhh...just reread some of the comments on tuther place to see which garethharvey comments you were talking about. He mentions patchyness but only when it's applied in winter months. Further up the page someone else mentions that colours are always patchy, but whites are ok.....
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 08:33

Well I made a complete Horlicks of things. We carried the cills outside so that I could start working on fixing them down. That's when I discovered that in painting the tops, a lot of paint had run down and pooled on the underside even though I had tried to brush off an excess. This, of course, was very thick in places and not dry at all. Fortunately we were wearing disposable gloves but we both got covered in paint :(

Then by dint of moving and working the cills a lot of the soft paint got really grotty and picked up all kinds of rubbish, scraped off in areas and basically got trashed ! And even the tops got trashed. I'll be experimenting sanding down using the paint as a sanding medium...I think that's what I'm supposed to do. Almost like a slurry, I guess. We shall see.

Image

But I got the bolts in place. The cut faces were coated in epoxy first. Whether or not I will do the corners is a moot point.

Image

Why did I do things this way. I keep asking myself that question. My initial reasoning was that the weather here being predominantly wet I wanted to have the cills painted up before they went outside and cut them to size. Of course, we all know what a heatwave we've had.

The other thing that I have learned with linseed oil paint is that the first coat dries very well and quickly as the oil is absorbed into the wood. But the second and any subsequent coats must be applied ultra thinly which is easier said than done. I'm going to experiment with two brushes in future. One with the paint on and the second a 'dry' brush with no paint. After laying on the second coat with the first, I will brush the surplus off with the second.

Meanwhile inside the workshop I've been prepping the wood for the sub-frames. I'll not bore you with photos of thicknessed wood. I'd forgotten just how mind-numbingly boring this is !
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Coley » 07 Jul 2018, 10:12

Roger have you got any thing else going on with the joint or is it just butt joint and worktop clamp? Watch they don't go boomerang in this heat

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Rod » 07 Jul 2018, 10:21

Perhaps you should have tried this method?

https://youtu.be/GKm460QWupM

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 10:28

Coley wrote:Roger have you got any thing else going on with the joint or is it just butt joint and worktop clamp? Watch they don't go boomerang in this heat
...


They're being screwed down into the concrete brick base today.

Rod wrote:Perhaps you should have tried this method?

https://youtu.be/GKm460QWupM

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If I wasn't pre-painting then maybe. I did consider that sort of thing at the beginning. Then reality hit. Trying to handle 4.5m lengths of sapele by myself didn't appeal.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Coley » 07 Jul 2018, 10:34

I wonder if some gurt big screws angled through the bottom into the other piece may also help stop the joint from twisting ? A nice big loose tenon would really help increase the glue area. I wouldn't worry about the paint too much. Now it's in the fresh air that'll help speed up the drying process.

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 13:09

I may well use large dominos at the corner connections. My biggest problem at the moment is getting the two long cills coplanar and level with each other. I don't have a 4m spirit level !
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Jul 2018, 13:57

Could winding sticks be an option?
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Jul 2018, 14:00

And a water tube?
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 14:19

Malc2098 wrote:Could winding sticks be an option?


Yes, I'll definitely be using those at some point. Not sure about the water level. I have two but rarely use them and not sure I have the vertical space or easy way of using them.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2018, 18:57

Well, we have some sort of progress. Nearly all my tools now have a coating of linseed oil paint despite copious use of Wonder Wipes and a seemingly never ending supply and replacement of gloves.

Wasn't helped by not planning ahead properly. If I had done then I would have had the front long cill near the front while the epoxy was going off overnight. Managed to slide it bit by bit using bearers and some offcuts of DPM to reduce friction The actual joint was temporarily reinforced with 22mm ply.

Of more note was that if I had done then I wouldn't have had the rear cill 180 degrees out !

Still - they are all joined up but not screwed down. I used some small Dominos to keep the joints aligned otherwise they'd have slid all over the place.

ImageP1130263 by countryman69, on Flickr

and just for fun I went round all four sides with the spirit level to see how much I had to do tomorrow and was pleasantly surprised that they all looked like this.

Image

which ain't bad. The diagonals are within a couple of mm as well. Time for a gin and tonic.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Coley » 07 Jul 2018, 19:05

Double g & t by the looks of things! You did well getting them in place on your tod

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Jul 2018, 19:23

Bravo!
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 08 Jul 2018, 08:11

Cor blimey!

Took out a couple of winding sticks early this morning just to see how much work is needed to get it all plumb, level and square.

I'll need to have a second closer look but at first pass, the answer is none :o

It's a credit to my builders brick-laying skills, I think.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Jul 2018, 09:02

Double bravo!
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 11 Jul 2018, 11:06

What does the team think ?

Single lantern

single lantern.png
(52.36 KiB)


or double ?

double lantern.png
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Rod » 11 Jul 2018, 12:53

Single for me - just seems right.

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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Malc2098 » 11 Jul 2018, 13:05

Single. Proportions look good.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby Andyp » 11 Jul 2018, 13:45

Single, less work. Only two ends to worry about instead of four. Looks better too.
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Re: The Orangerie

Postby RogerS » 11 Jul 2018, 15:09

OK..thanks chaps. I also thought single looked best...just that I was trying to avoid a couple of gluelams ! Chief Designer also prefers single.

I therefore redesigned the ends to let me put in decent supports (110 x 100mm) for the gluelams

single lantern with gluelam.png
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gluelams shown red
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Re: The Orangerie - glulam specifying

Postby RogerS » 12 Jul 2018, 09:55

So I'm going to need two glulam beams to support the lantern. To determine the size required I think I need to add up the weight of :

the glass in the lantern. (I can probably ignore the weight of the aluminium fittings/channels)
the rafters in the lantern
rest of the flat roof area covering in ply
any additional ceiling joists required
the weight of the glulam beams
I can ignore the weather protection as that will be fibre-glass.

Have I forgotten anything ?

Is this the right way to do this sort of thing ?

Quick Google suggests 90 x 315 might be the right size. 100 kg each beam. Probably have to hire in a Genie lift but getting it to the Orangerie will be fun over grass, hillocks and hammocks. Or time it for when the builders are in.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulam specifying

Postby Rod » 12 Jul 2018, 10:14

Snow, wind and location factor??

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Re: The Orangerie - glulam specifying

Postby RogerS » 12 Jul 2018, 11:12

Rod wrote:Snow, wind and location factor??

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Ah, snow's a good one. Especially after last winter.

Wind ? Isn't that side loading ? Working that out is above my pay grade !

Location factor as in what specifically ?
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Re: The Orangerie - glulam specifying

Postby Rod » 12 Jul 2018, 22:19

It’s a long time since I did any of this but I seem to remember the location factor took into account the likely severity of storms etc ie The Shetland’s will have a higher factor than say the Home Counties.

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Re: The Orangerie - glulam specifying

Postby Pinch » 13 Jul 2018, 08:37

Going good Roger. 8-)

Looking forward to seeing this progress.

A signature of some type on the work would be very cool too. 8-)
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