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Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 29 Apr 2018, 22:04

... gah, cliff hanger!!! I'm not sure what to expect, a lot of 'live' detached ceiling?

Quite a bit of wall mess Mike, the hardest part of that kind of bashing is maintaining enthusiasm, with all the debris and dust sticking to your face...eugh... Well done getting through that stage.

The original framework does look lovely, I can see why you paused for so long.

I'd never think of insulating the bathroom for sound, I don't think I've seen it... Though pan tinkling is clear as a bell from the bathroom above our lounge, so it makes total sense to me!

...

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby Mike G » 29 Apr 2018, 22:14

The tie beam and its associated ironwork was covered with plasterboard. You can now start to see how curved and uneven it is:

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Note in the top right corner of that first photo the washers I just described holding the old ceiling nice and tight to the joists, firming everything up (you could previously push it up and down by hand in places). The white pipe is a ventilation duct.

Everything is now geared towards getting the room ready for plastering. I did a window board:

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I've long known that there was a weird hard shiny layer to the walls and ceilings despite them being lime plastered (which is soft and dull). I was confident that this, in an angle grinder, would soon deal with it:

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It didn't:

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You can still see the shine. You can also see the hatch pattern I'd scratched laboriously in the surface to help provide a key, and the darker marks where the wire brush had just polished the surface up a bit. This finish was nowhere near being ready to accept plaster. It would just fall off into a heap on the floor. I went and invested in a couple of these:

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Now, note in the background the 4" black pipe. That's the toilet waste pipe. It was about to play a big part in proceedings. I had 2 layers of sheeting stapled across the door, and across the corridor outside. I stuffed cloths into all the crevasses leading to the outside. I squirted expanding foam around smaller gaps. I got in my expensive rubber mask with removable filters, and donned goggles and a cap, and cracked on. Within seconds I was operating entirely by braille as the dust filled the room, and went backwards and forwards across the entirety of all the old walls and ceilings. Considering I couldn't see a damn thing I did a pretty good job, and the new knotted wire brush was much more aggressive:

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Five minutes before I finished (it was hard, hard work, and sweaty, filthy and horrible, my wife came home. She opened the front door, and yelled. She could barely see her hand in front of her face for dust. Nightmare.

Now, bear in mind that there was a handmade wedding dress in one of the bedrooms (I'd sheeted up that door, too), and all sorts of other stuff that doesn't need 5mm of dust lying on it, and you can understand why she turned around and headed back out again.

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Disaster. But luckily, the room with the dress in it was fine. Everywhere else, particularly downstairs and my office next door, was smothered. I spent 5 hours cleaning the house from top to bottom, 3 times over. I had used up a few brownie points.

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Anyway, back to the bathroom.

Time to plaster. I came to the decision to use lime plaster on all of the external wall, and the old ceilings, and Universal onecoat for internal walls and plasterboarded ceilings. The latter looks similar to lime if you don't polish it up, and is much easier (and cheaper!) to apply to boards than lime, which isn't that easy to use. Photos of plastering in progress are a bit dull, so here are some "after" shots:

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And the dust? We're still finding it. Every book on the bookshelves in the study. Every piece of clothing hanging in our cupboards. All our bedding. All our furniture. The source for the leak.........I cut a 120 diameter hole for a 110 diameter pipe. It also got out through some gaps in the floorboards, and around radiator pipes. Guess what? The bathroom is the smallest of the 3 room which are going to need similar stripping.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby jules70 » 29 Apr 2018, 22:46

It's unbelievable how dust manages to escape and get literally everywhere.

One of the man reasons I vowed never to do another house up whilst living in it. And if someone asks for a full electrical rewire whilst still in residency, its also a no. Unless of course they want all surface run/ conduit !!

Have spent far too long cleaning up after myself + its also lovely to just put your tools down at night where you have just last finished using them and pick them up to carry on first thing in the morning.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby Rod » 29 Apr 2018, 23:33

Sterling work but a pity about the dust.

I had a similar experience using a disc cutter to cut out a new doorway through a cavity wall.
I’d cocooned myself in with plastic sheeting to contain the dust but found I not only couldn’t see but I couldn’t breathe even wearing a face mask.

Hope the bridegroom is not following this blog!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby RogerS » 30 Apr 2018, 06:24

Good progress, Mike. Brought back memories of our black-and-white refurb....so much out of whack.

Did you not think about simply applying Blue Grit to the walls rather than go through all that trauma ? In the words of the well-known glue...'It sticks like S...'
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 1)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 06:34

Yes, I thought about it Bob, but I decided to be as authentic as possible, and particularly, to return the walls & ceiling to the flexible breathable state they should be in. Leaving a hard crust on the plaster will only lead to more cracking.

For the life of me, I have no idea at all what the hard shiny coating is. All I can think is that it is some sort of reaction between a paint and the lime plaster. It isn't a modern paint. Its much harder than that. It's like a really thin, rock-hard crust, and when you break through it you gouge out large scoops from the soft lime plaster below. Just to add to the really odd picture of what is going on with the inside surface of this place, the lime plaster on the ceiling is the only stuff in the entire house other than the very first 2 courses of bricks in the plinth which have been made with sand. All other plaster, render and mortar has been lime mixed with chalk, but for some reason they thought sand was needed on the upstairs ceiling (downstairs is chalk).

Anyway, I've come up with a cunning plan for the two remaining rooms which need stripping. Well, not so much stripping as preparing. It may be slow, but it will be thorough and clean (er).
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 08:32

For the sake of continuity I presented things slightly out of order. Order on a building site being somewhat more chaotic than one might expect. Let me return to drains for a second.

I installed two soil pipes. The most complex one is in the cupboard in the adjacent bedroom 2 (see the drawing):

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From the floor up this has the toilet waste (large pipe, 90 degree bend with rodding eye), then the handbasin waste (small white pipe on the right), then an air admittance valve (Dirgo/ Durgo.....not sure of the spelling) as this isn't the head of the run. That soil pipe drops through the downstairs loo, below, where the bath waste drops down to join into it:

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The other soil pipe takes only the shower, and drops down in the corner of the dining room:

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After installing that latter stack I did the boxing behind the shower which was to hide the pipes:

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This drain connection (shower to stack) was the shortest of any drain run, and the most complex. Well, not so much complex as "how do we make this work?". We were having a very specific shower base shape (a quadrant, which is a square shower with one of the corners radiused), and they are only available with the waste in a couple of locations. I looked at hundreds. Unfortunately, those locations were all the wrong side of a joist in the floor, or were too close to it and fouled it. This meant that is wasn't possible to have a tray at floor level. Really disappointing. We had to have a raised tray instead:

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Looks easy, huh? There is an inch drop from the boxing at the back to the front edge of the tray, so each piece had to be scribed, taken out to the workshop and cut out on the bandsaw, offered up, checked, and adjusted if necessary. My little block plane got a lot of use.

I glued & screwed some MR t&g chipboard flooring over that, then laid a bed of mortar:

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And then lowered the shower tray into position. That's easier said than done, as it is very heavy, and you can't stand on the mortar. Anyway:

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Next, the floor. unfortunately, I didn't take a "before" photo. You'll just have to imagine what it was like after 3 or 4 days of plastering, mixing mortar, and so on. These are the nearest to before photos I've got, taken after I had scraped with a 4" paint scraper, vacuumed, and sponged down a couple of times:

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I just cleaned and clean and cleaned. In the end I scrubbed it at least 6 times, including a couple of times with sugar soap, which was really effective. I also used a scraper and a chisel sharpened to a hook (to use as a scraper), to haul off huge amounts of carpet clue, paint, plaster, and various unidentifiable splodges:

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My scraper is from a scraper plane I made years back. The bradawl was for cleaning out holes and gaps between boards. The wire brush is copper, so soft, but firm enough to get accreted crap out without raising the grain.

I fitted a few "Dutchmen", and did a little filling:

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And washed again:

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I knocked nails home, added extra ones, and used screws where I had to. I cleaned again. In the end, after letting it dry thoroughly for a week, it was time to apply the finish. I had purchased some water based lacquer from Smith & Rodgers (Aquacoat SP). I'd ordered matt, and didn't notice until after I'd finished that I had in fact received satin. It's very easy to use, very forgiving, doesn't smell (much), dries quickly (an hour or two) and it didn't change the colour of the floor (I tested it along with a couple of alternatives on the floor under where the bath would stand). Just the job. I applied 2 coats, then carefully filled gaps between the floorboards with brown Decorators Mate (a flexible sealant which accepts finishes), then applied a third coat. You just brush it on. It took less than half an hour per coat.

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As you can see from the last photo, I couldn't wait to bring the sanitaryware in and stand it in position (once the floor was thoroughly dry). The bath in particular had to be offered in, and the position of the feet and waste carefully noted. I then propped it out of the way to prepare for its fitting:

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You will note the added bit of boarding, plus of course the pipework (supply and waste). Before adding that board, I reinforced the floor with an additional joist. The floor in that area was weak because two of the joists had been set directly into the brickwork of the old chimney and they had rotten somewhat at the end in the brickwork. So, after a big struggle, I got a new modern joist in directly under the location of two of the bath feet:

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I mentioned before how things have to be done in a certain somewhat chaotic order, and this is a good example. I wanted to board the hall ceiling downstairs months ago, and plaster it, but until the bath was in with its reinforced floor, I couldn't do it. Anyway, I digress.

You can see here the bath waste located precisely, with the rodding access point of the U bend facing the access. I have also extended the tails of the supply pipes ready to connect the taps. Further, although you can't see much evidence in that photo, I had made the final connections to the radiator on the little wall at the head of the bath. We were ready to finally position the bath:

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Note the flexible connectors with isolating valves for the supply, and the black crinkly pipe which connects the bath overflow into the trap. Here's the radiator I mentioned:

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Next I made a framework for the bath panel and boxing behind the toilet:

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With the loo positioned, I carefully made a template. Here it is with the loo out of the way:

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It was at this point that I called the Building inspector in, because once the loo was fixed permanently the drains would no longer be visible, changeable, or accessible. She was perfectly happy, and spent more time chatting about the ducks on the pond across the road. Time to fit the loo, and the bath panel:

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The above shows me offering up yet again to locate exactly the hole for the water supply to the cistern.

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Again, it wasn't quite as simple as that, as the first syphon system in the cistern was faulty (the shut-off valve wouldn't shut off), and I stripped the plastic connection thread on the replacement. I therefore had to mix and match between the two and make one that worked.

I then had my first bath for 3 years:

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_

I added a loo seat. My wife started to domesticate the place:

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I have described elsewhere the restoration of the Edwardian washstand we'd found in a friend's barn locally. Here it is in situ, with the (unfortunately) cut down tile splashback (note the newly delivered hand basin):

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Time to make a replacement. I found some old bits of architrave:

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I ran them through the router:

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and made some new ends:

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Glued them together:

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Added some turnings rescued from the original (you can see the tiles offered in):

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Painted it grey (chalk paint):

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Fitted the tiles and the ply backing, and stood it in place:

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Soon most of the washstand will be painted to match.

I stuck a few tiles onto the shower walls:

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I want the tiles to finish flush with the outside of the shower screen, which I haven't ordered yet, so that is as far as I could go.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, brings us up to date.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby 9fingers » 30 Apr 2018, 08:40

Always impressed with your progress Mike!
Maybe put loads of sound insulation round the soil pipe to avoid the "woosh- thwack" sound effects in the dining room.
We have a soil pipe with no insulation but it passes through the utility room which is more acceptable than a dinging room :lol:

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 30 Apr 2018, 08:56

That's a lovely bathroom Mike, a well deserved and very satisfying bath I'm sure, with the Brownie points back in the bank.

If you have to grind walls again have a look into the Festool Renofix (hire).

Great update





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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 09:00

9fingers wrote:........Maybe put loads of sound insulation round the soil pipe to avoid the "woosh- thwack" sound effects in the dining room.......


Oh yes!Having suffered in a previous house that was ALWAYS on the agenda.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 09:02

Jimmy Mack wrote:That's a lovely bathroom Mike, a well deserved and very satisfying bath I'm sure, with the Brownie points back in the bank.

If you have to grind walls again have a look into the Festool Renofix (hire).

Great update ......


Thanks Jim, and that's a great tip. I was planning to borrow a friend's "chaser", set it very shallow, and make repeated passes. I'll pop into the local tool hire shop and see if they have a Renofix or similar, and if so, how heavy it is. I really struggle working above head height, with dodgy old shoulders.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 30 Apr 2018, 09:12

Mike G wrote:
Jimmy Mack wrote:That's a lovely bathroom Mike, a well deserved and very satisfying bath I'm sure, with the Brownie points back in the bank.

If you have to grind walls again have a look into the Festool Renofix (hire).

Great update ......


Thanks Jim, and that's a great tip. I was planning to borrow a friend's "chaser", set it very shallow, and make repeated passes. I'll pop into the local tool hire shop and see if they have a Renofix or similar, and if so, how heavy it is. I really struggle working above head height, with dodgy old shoulders.
Here are the details... As you'd expect from Festool it costs an arm and a leg!... Another option might be to sweet talk a Festool rep into lending out a demonstrator.

http://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/fes ... duct/39398

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Malc2098 » 30 Apr 2018, 10:09

Sterling, as he said, absolutely sterling.


FWIW, my bathroom is in a dormer, (60s chalet style bungalow) and was the coldest room in the house, and showers or baths were not the pleasant relaxing experience they ought to be, not did condensation disappear with the windows open.

A couple of years ago, I took all the walls and ceiling back to studs and insulated with PIR, reboarded, then tiled floor to ceiling, and replastered the ceiling. I didn't want to break through for an extractor fan.

The result is that sounds are reduced, but even with the little window open while showering, it's warm enough to still be very pleasant. After a quick squeegee down of the tiles round the shower/bath, all other condensation and splashed water disappears within about half an hour with no marks on the sealant corners.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby RogerS » 30 Apr 2018, 10:39

Could you hire one of those dry-ice (I think) 'sand' blasters ?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby wallace » 30 Apr 2018, 11:04

Cracking job as usual Mike, I was going to suggest some kind of wall chaser but I see your already onto it. I did a similar dusty job in the house and used a chip extractor with no filter and just had it venting outside to keep the room clear. I think it helped stop any dust permeating through tiny gaps by making the room slightly negatively pressurised.
One critique with the bathroom would be, I would prefer to see oak in place of the soft wood. unless its getting painted.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 11:15

It's getting painted :). You'll not see unpainted softwood anywhere in the house, I don't think.

And negative pressure is an important factor in my planning for the next couple of rooms. I have a cunning plan.....
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 16:21

RogerS wrote:Could you hire one of those dry-ice (I think) 'sand' blasters ?


No, a specialist team comes in with that kit (it includes one of those big trailer-sized compressors). It's about £1000 for a days work, and it might not work anyway.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Woolf » 30 Apr 2018, 21:18

Would a scabbler not do the job? Although these are usually quite big multiheaded machines for doing floors there are smaller handheld versions available.

While googling the subject I came across this which looks quite nifty.

http://trelawnyspt.com/products/whirl-a ... y-scabbler
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby Mike G » 30 Apr 2018, 21:56

Yep that's the one. About £100 per day to hire.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Mega update 2)

Postby MJ80 » 01 May 2018, 08:42

Looking great Mike. Love how well the floor has come up, bet you enjoyed the bath. :text-bravo:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

Postby Mike G » 10 Jun 2018, 20:32

I have been rather busy on the house for a week or two, but, frankly, plastering ceilings and limewashing walls don't make riveting photos. Let's just show a before, during, and after of the limewashing:

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Three coats of traditional limewash with tallow. You have to apply when it is cool, dry, and cloudy, so that it has a chance to dry slowly. The longer it takes to dry the less dusting there is afterwards.

I also tackled the downstairs loo, which had only been a temporary set-up previously. I forgot to take a before photo, with the temporary plumbing. Here's a little sequence:

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The last photo show the waste pipe from the bathroom above. I was just going to box it in, but thought that might be a bit boring. Besides, I fancied some workshop time, so I decided to add a little cabinet:

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That's now plasterboarded and ready for plastering tomorrow. It's very hard taking photos in such a small room, but I'll try to get on of the rounded boxing.....quite an attractive feature.

I also cleared the front garden, and we took the decision to plant it up with a green manure ground cover plant to keep weeds at bay. We simply aren't going to be ready to do the paths, little wall and iron railings, and the box hedging, this year, so suppressing the weeds until we're ready next spring seems like a plan:

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It's not long back that the entire front garden was covered in oak, bricks, blocks, and bags of sand, so having it clear like this feels a bit of a luxury.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jun 2018, 21:15

Nice.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

Postby StevieB » 10 Jun 2018, 21:56

Looking good Mike - has the house gone from white to grey or are the photos after then before in that order?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

Postby Mike G » 10 Jun 2018, 22:39

Green! It's gone from white to green.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Loo & limewash)

Postby Phil » 16 Jun 2018, 17:01

Looking very good Mike. :eusa-clap:


Question -
Are you going to box in the bottom of the wash basin to hide the piping? Sort of angled in.

The porch roof - is that a Mexican wave or just the photo?

Walls, nice shade of green.

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