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Best way to clean this. Lantern. Hopes dashed

AndyP

AndyP

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I am about to be given this to clean up and make a little more presentable. At a guess I would say it dates from early 20th century. It has a family significance for my inlaws who would like it lit an displayed at my FIL’s funeral on Friday. I hope that it is no more than surface rust on steel.
I hope to be able to dismantle and insert a candle. The glass I am assured is in one piece.
IMG-20250104-WA0000.jpeg

What should I use to clean it up? Wire wool, I only have 0000, and Wd40? Or something else?
 
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Just spraying it with WD40 will transform it. I would just do that then rub it over with wax.
 
I'd be tempted to take any non-steel parts away & dunk the rest in citric acid for a couple of hours. The wipe clean, wire brush any remaining rust, WD40 to get rid of any water (from the citric acid mix) remaining, then maybe some wax or oil to protect it.
 
Sorry to hear that Andy.

It's an old Tilly lamp - or clone thereof - the non-pressurised, esrly ones. Firstly, empty that bottom tank. It was a kerosene derivative used in these beasties, so when you put your candle in (where the mantle was?) you will need to flush it out with water and a good dollop of Fairy liquid, to avoid the candle igniting the residual fumes.
As to treating the rust, I'd wonder out loud if a simple concentrated salt'n'vinegar immersion for a few hours and a gentle rub with a stiff tooth brush would be enough? You've got a surprising acreage of plate there, plus a multiplicity of awkward corners. From experience, I know when 0000 grade wire wool or a heavy duty kitchen scrubber is used, the 'cleaned' patches stand out like sore thumbs and you are then forced to do an intricate, time-consuming 'full restoration'.
The only time these lovely old lamps were shiny silver was in the shop before purchase! The ones that I have seen in use had that "patina" seen in the photograph.
Postings crossing: citric acid - if you have it - is a good alternative to salt'n' vinegar.

Sam
 
Thanks all.

I don’t have any citric acid. I do have 15% white vinegar and salt. What is the ratio salt to vinegar?
Looks like I should be able to find acide citrique in powder form if salt and vinegar does not work.

No way is a full restoration needed nor required. I can’t imagine that it has been lit for 30 years or more but will take precautions with regards to residual fuel.

I hope that it will dismantle. It has been stored in a far from dry environment for decades. I’ll know more when i take delivery tomorrow.

Wax? Ordinary Briwax ok?
 
I've got some of these but I can't say as I have seen one with a shroud around the globe or the bracket? on the upright before.
Makes me wonder if it was used on a cycle etc,.
I find with this sort of object/condition is that a very light going over with a bit of soft wire wool to knock back that first layer of fine rust enough.
Going too far and trying to get it all shiny sometimes leaves an element of an unfinished restoration.
Wiping with a dirty oily cloth is my go to finish but best not in this case as it's going to be lit and possibly smell somewhat.
I have before thinly painted on rust converter (Vactan) which leaves fairly presentable finish. But not heated it up...
Just a thought....
If this rusty old lamp is what holds special memories, might cleaning it up alter that?
Cheers, Andy
 
Andy, thanks. I like the idea that you “have some of these”. A collection?

Yes, shiny silver is not what I think is required. Are you suggesting citric acid will leave it too clean?

The story goes that during the occupation the germans changed the time to Berlin time. Father-in-law and his sister then had to walk to and from their secondary school in Bayeaux along dark country lanes with the aid of this lamp. A story he told many times .
 
AndyP said:
Thanks all.

I don’t have any citric acid. I do have 15% white vinegar and salt. What is the ratio salt to vinegar?
Looks like I should be able to find acide citrique in powder form if salt and vinegar does not work.
Click to expand...

I've never used salt & vinegar, but I've used white vinegar on its own and that works fine. It's a lot smellier than citric acid and (at least when I tried it) produces some weird rusty foam - see the photo about halfway down this page: https://www.cgtk.co.uk/metalwork/miscellaneous/vicerestoration

I've since stuck with citric acid (which is cheap, relatively odour-free and nice and easy to get rid of) for most jobs and electrolysis when the rust was really thick. Electrolysis is a lot more faff but works quicker so is good when the rust is quite thick.

All of these methods of cleaning the rust off will leave evidence of pitting (it'll remove the rust, but it won't magically fill in where the rust was). That'll leave a patina when it's cleaned up and oiled/waxed, but I don't see that as a bad thing. It'll be worth giving it a bit of attention with a wire brush once it's out of whatever you soak it in.

Oh, and make sure you get it dry (or drench it with WD40) very quickly once it's out of the bath. It'll start to rust in a matter of moments.

AndyP said:
Wax? Ordinary Briwax ok?
Click to expand...

I'm sure that would be fine. Alternatively, warm it up and just wipe a bit of linseed oil on it.
 
AndyP said:
Andy, thanks. I like the idea that you “have some of these”. A collection?

Yes, shiny silver is not what I think is required. Are you suggesting citric acid will leave it too clean?

The story goes that during the occupation the germans changed the time to Berlin time. Father-in-law and his sister then had to walk to and from their secondary school in Bayeaux along dark country lanes with the aid of this lamp. A story he told many times .
Click to expand...
Yes, a collection of lamps... did I just freely admit to hoarding another object of desire or was I tricked? :unsure: :LOL:
In fact I've had so many I have been (commonly found in shed/garage clearouts) known to sell the odd one here and there.

As it is I've only dabbled with Coca Cola immersion on some little bits and pieces and didn't like the results.
Although working well I think the items look at bit washed out after rust removal solutions unless a complete restoration is performed afterwards but honestly I don't like the "chuffed and buffed" look.

Okay I have just had a thought which may put pay to the liquid options....
I get the impression that at least the uprights in these storm lamps are formed from pressed steel and joined together leaving the inside hollow.
Accidentally getting some of the solutions inside there might be detrimental.
I wouldn't chance it with such a sentimental piece.
Cheers
Andy
 
Crickey, just doing a search to see if I could find any others with the shroud and this popped up.....
If I weren't laid up with man-flu I'd be off checking the stash 😉

www.ebay.co.uk

VINTAGE GERMAN 1276 NIER FEUERHAND STORM LANTERN OIL LAMP-ORIGINAL- | eBay UK

VINTAGE GERMAN 1276 NIER FEUERHAND STORM LANTERN OIL LAMP-ORIGINAL-. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class recorded
www.ebay.co.uk
 
Ok will see tomorrow but a softly softly approach to start with just dry 0000 wire wool. Will see how that looks before any chemical attack.
Key to all this is dismantling to get a light inside. I’ve 3inOne which I hope will suffice for any stuck threads.
 
toolsntat said:
Crickey, just doing a search to see if I could find any others with the shroud and this popped up.....
If I weren't laid up with man-flu I'd be off checking the stash 😉

www.ebay.co.uk

VINTAGE GERMAN 1276 NIER FEUERHAND STORM LANTERN OIL LAMP-ORIGINAL- | eBay UK

VINTAGE GERMAN 1276 NIER FEUERHAND STORM LANTERN OIL LAMP-ORIGINAL-. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class recorded
www.ebay.co.uk
Click to expand...
This one even has the bracket.
militarytravelandoutdoor.eu

Feuerhand 175 Super Baby

Feuerhand 175 Super Baby oil lamp from famous German company Feuerhand. Made in the 1930’s, aka Feuerhand 175F.
militarytravelandoutdoor.eu militarytravelandoutdoor.eu
 
Wouldn’t it be nice if it was one of these? Can’t wait to find out.
www.thelovelandlanterncollection.com

FEUERHAND SUPERFLAM Nr. 175rR - Rücklicht (tail light)

FEUERHAND SUPERFLAM Nr. 175rR - Rücklicht (tail light) - Export to France. This has the wagon bracket and jeweled tin reflector. Used as a rear tail light on a wagon. Superflam was an export to France.
www.thelovelandlanterncollection.com
 
toolsntat said:
Makes me wonder if it was used on a cycle etc,.
Cheers, Andy
Click to expand...
This would be too dangerous on a bike Andy. All.that flammable liquid sloshing about? Doubtful?
My father and grandfather told me about acetylene/ carbide bike lamps of the era AndyP's FIL described. Place a lump of carbide in, adjust the water drip feed onto.it, ignite the acetylene gas inside the reflector housing.
 
AndyP said:
Ok will see tomorrow but a softly softly approach to start with just dry 0000 wire wool. Will see how that looks before any chemical attack.
Key to all this is dismantling to get a light inside. I’ve 3inOne which I hope will suffice for any stuck threads.
Click to expand...
Did you miss my suggestion, Andy ? No or very little dismantling needed.
 
I did Rog, sorry.
I have everything except the 12v battery charger.
Will consult with family and see how “clean” they would like it.
I’m assuming that electrolysis is less likely to damage any weak soldered joints than using an acid?
 
AndyP said:
Wouldn’t it be nice if it was one of these? Can’t wait to find out.
www.thelovelandlanterncollection.com

FEUERHAND SUPERFLAM Nr. 175rR - Rücklicht (tail light)

FEUERHAND SUPERFLAM Nr. 175rR - Rücklicht (tail light) - Export to France. This has the wagon bracket and jeweled tin reflector. Used as a rear tail light on a wagon. Superflam was an export to France.
www.thelovelandlanterncollection.com
Click to expand...
Well done, good find.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't one of these.
Cheers Andy
 
SamQ aka Ah! Q! said:
This would be too dangerous on a bike Andy. All.that flammable liquid sloshing about? Doubtful?
My father and grandfather told me about acetylene/ carbide bike lamps of the era AndyP's FIL described. Place a lump of carbide in, adjust the water drip feed onto.it, ignite the acetylene gas inside the reflector housing.
Click to expand...
I can see where you are coming from Sam but possibly once the burner assembly is screwed down the contents should be at least moderately sealed and would need inverting to leak out.
I also have a number of the carbide types including a brand new in the box miners head lamp.
Cheers, Andy
 
AndyP said:
Ok will see tomorrow but a softly softly approach to start with just dry 0000 wire wool. Will see how that looks before any chemical attack.
Key to all this is dismantling to get a light inside. I’ve 3inOne which I hope will suffice for any stuck threads.
Click to expand...
The threads on the filler plug are very course press formed affairs and can seize when rusted.
As far as I can remember that's it for threads.
The mechanism for raising the wick is a star wheel on a spindle.
To disassemble you lift up the spring loaded top chimney using the loop provided.
The globe is then free to pivot sideways providing access to the burner. NOTE, it shouldn't, but when flipped, the globe might want to part company with the cradle.
For lighting the wick you don't need to flip the globe, there is a lever to raise up the globe against the resistance of the sprung chimney which handily latches down on a notch.
Cheers Andy
 
Well here it is in all it’s glory. The Superflam 175 as linked to above.
IMG_3821.jpeg
The glass unfortunately is broken and a long time ago as the cut edges are covered in soot. The rust is not at all powdery, barely leaves a mark on the skin when rubbed. The wick is still intact but it is as dry as a bone. Washer on filler cap long since disappeared.
Now which will be the less aggressive as far as cleaning? Citric acid or the salt and vinegar mix?
Or should I just light brush with soap and water?
 
That's in a lot better condition than I expected but a real shame about the globe.
It may be, if you wished to go there, possible to still get a globe to fit this with a bit of searching.
I wonder, will the cracked one survive the heat from the proposed candle illumination ?

I would be glad to have found it in this condition and give it a clean over with a stiff bristle followed by a wipe over and then, for this, I'd use Alfie Shine (sometimes using heat to speed up penetration of rustier spots) leave till next day and wipe over or even just leave it as is.

My way of thinking...
It's an old lamp, with old memories attached that should look old.
Hope it works out right for you Andy whichever way you go.
Cheers, Andy
 
Thanks Andy,
Latest thinking is to see if we can find a small led light for lumination. I hope to be able to glue the two broken pieces of glass and hide them behind the metal shield.
Will probably now do as you suggest just brush and wipe with wax.
Will search for a replacement glass as well for the future.
 
You could keep the original glass and use the Japanese technique of respecting and honouring the break. Apply a little gold leaf or carefully pain gold paint on the break repairs as finely as you can. It can look very good if done well.

I would caution against over cleaning. Old things need to look old and show their history. (Don't tell women this btw). Any aggressive cleaning removes the patina bestowed by time. And it will never be perfect or new again.
 
Spent the past hour trying to find a mini self contained battery led light that would fit inside. Easy enough to find ……… in quantities of 24:eek:. It is not the cost, only 10euros, but the waste.

Might scrap the whole led idea and just use paraffin. MrsP not sure if the church will allow.

I’m all for beauty in imperfection, wabi sabi. With the crack and glue joints hid behind the shield I do not think anyone will notice.
 
Jeez pressure just been ramped up. I’ve just been informed that the lantern will be used to lead the coffin in and out of the church and at the cemetery.
 
I'd be cautious with WD40 - it's pretty flammable and stinky if it does catch.

Regarding the actual light, can you remove the wick holder and wedge a bit of candle in there, or possibly a tea light? It'll look reasonably 'normal', the glass will protect it from blowing out (or should), and the church/chapel shouldn't object as it's not really a fire risk if knocked over, etc.

Burn life won't be very long, but you can probably blow it out after the procession and relight it as appropriate.
 
I’d considered that EV and yes I can remove the wick holder. I was concerned that molten wax would flow down into the tank and be a devil’s own job to remove. A standard tea light is too big.

Seems a lot easier to buy a replacement glass from the US than anywhere in Europe.
 
A bit of aluminium foil to sit candle/tealight in, and block the hole?

The glass thing is frustrating, although cyanoacrylate might do it temporarily if you can clean the edges well enough - I'd try acetone for the glass, as it does well with oily residues, although it flashes off rather fast.

I was in Tractor Supplies at the end of last month and noticed they had them there, but sadly they're in Tennessee. I think Ace Hardware also carry them, as people use them in power cuts.

Over here, is there no chance of a traditional ironmongers near you? I realise you're normally in Normandy, so it might not be quite so easy.
 
Although it's not about cleaning Tilly lamps, this little article I found invaluable on cleaning up a recent acquisition from Japan. The same principles would apply to your project Andy - Rob
 
Woodbloke said:
Although it's not about cleaning Tilly lamps, this little article I found invaluable on cleaning up a recent acquisition from Japan. The same principles would apply to your project Andy - Rob
Click to expand...
Judging by the before and after photos, he does seem to know what he's talking about. Thanks for that.
 
A suggestion for the light source - battery powered led string lights. Copper wire with miniature lights every 10cm along its length. Much brighter than those led tea light things and running from 2 AA batteries long lasting. You can bunch the wire up to make a single large light source and maybe mount the battery pack to that bracket and disguise it.
 
Having spoken to everyone, nobody, as predicted earlier in the thread, has seen this lantern in anything other than its current rust like patina. So today’s task is to use a stiff brush, dry, to remove what dust there is then use a wax polish.
I have at last found some mini leds small enough to fit within the glass and in an acceptable quanity.


If the lights do not work I will resort to paraffin.

The glass I will attempt to glue. With the leds I could even use sellotape short term. It will not be visible.
I have found a replacement glass, in Sweden, they don't ship internationally but MrsP has work contacts there so will order for future prosperity.
 
The one’s I’ve seen online are in the 80€ bracket, a bit much just for the glass.

Where did that kist come from Andy? Mine is the 4th one down by reference and dimension. I would like to think that Germany would be the ideal hunting ground but I’ve had no success so online.
 
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