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CAD system for woodworking

kevcad

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Name
Kev
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Hi Peeps, Some advice / recommendations please.
Is there such a thing as a CAD system for woodworking?
So far I have scribbled rough plans on paper, but to be honest, most of the time it's in my head, which ultimately leads to some mistakes.
Alternatively something which calculates how much wood to I need for a project would be great.
Over to you... fingers crossed.
 
I don't think there's a specific CAD for woodworking, but any of the CAD software out there can be used to draw furniture or other wood projects including joinery features.

For calculating quantities of wood, it probably depends on what you're making.

If you're making something out of sheet goods (eg ply or MDF) then there are some apps that help you layout your components to make best use of the sheet. (I haven't used them so can't give you a recommended link, but you might be able to search on here.)

For other projects, I'm not aware of software that will help, not least because the wood you're getting the components from will not be a uniform shape or size. The best thing to do is to write out a cutting list showing the components with their length, width, thickness and number. When I'm buying wood for a project, I'll take that list with me and tick off the components as I'm measuring the raw timber and visualising how I might get the components out of it. I always buy more than I need because inevitably you'll find defects and other issues.
 
I'm not sure that there's anything to recommend that is specifically for woodworking. I know a lot of people use Sketchup and find it intuitive (I find it extremely frustrating and counter-intuitive, but everyone thinks and works differently).

I prefer to use what you might call "traditional 3D CAD" - drawing sketches, extruding them into solids and then rinse and repeat. It means you can go back to an early sketch, tweak a dimension and everything updates to match, whereas in Sketchup you may find yourself having to redo a considerable amount of the model if the change is substantial.

Sketchup has the considerable advantage that it is easy to just shove stuff around until you get it looking how you want. It's not exactly hard in traditional CAD (depending on the CAD system) but it's not as quick for rough stuff where precision isn't critical. Note that you can achieve precision in Sketchup but it takes a bit more work to get something maintainable than in traditional CAD.

For traditional CAD, there are a few common options.

Free ones include:
  • Onshape - web based (so can run on a relatively low powered PC). Free version makes your designs public on the web, which you may see as a downside (mainly if you're trying to commercialise the project), although the chances of anyone finding your project is quite slim, especially if you give it a silly name! Very intuitive as traditional CAD goes and the tutorials are well written and generally up to date. Written by some of the developers of Solidworks.
  • Solid Edge Community Edition. Download and use it on your PC; free and perpetual licence. It has a "synchronous" mode, which allows pushing/pulling faces to tweak things (a bit like Sketchup) and an "ordered" mode that's more like traditional CAD.
  • FreeCAD. Free and open source. Getting more powerful all the time. In some ways the power is a hindrance: it tries to do a lot of things and that can make some of those things unintuitive.
  • Autodesk Fusion. Really, really popular as a 3D CAD tool but (in my opinion) less intuitive than Onshape/Solidworks. I call it a triumph of marketing over quality: Autodesk have pushed really hard to make it the 3D-printing tool of choice. Works slightly differently to other CAD systems in a lot of small ways: I can switch between Onshape, Solidworks, ZW3D, Solid Edge, NX, FreeCAD and others reasonably freely, but using Fusion always feels like a wrench. You have to renew your (free) licence every year and they have a history of cutting down functionality in the free version so caveat emptor.
Relatively cheap options include:
  • Solidworks Makers Edition ($48 a year). The king of 3D CAD tools in my opinion. Runs off-line on your PC and is the most powerful and intuitive traditional CAD system I've ever used (although Onshape gives it a run for its money).
  • Alibre Atom3D. Slightly less capable than FreeCAD but a lot more money. I wouldn't touch it.
  • Plasticity ($175 one off). I've never used this but it's billed as 3D CAD for artists and for Sketchup fans it's definitely worth a look. I suspect it'll be quite an easy and intuitive option for designing woodwork stuff.
One thing I always say with CAD tools is that whichever one you choose you should get in the habit of ALWAYS exporting STEP files (and, if supported by the tool, Parasolid files) of your work. If you chose Fusion, designed loads of stuff with it and only save .f3d files and then Autodesk cut down or remove the free tier licence, you either need to buy Fusion or you'll lose access to your work. If you've got a STEP file, you can import it into another CAD tool.

Oh also, if you're designing woodwork stuff with traditional CAD, many tools have a "weldment" option, that makes it a lot easier to design multi-part models (e.g. the sides and back of a cabinet as separate parts in a single model).
 
I can't recommend a system as a I'm a pencil drawing and then opticutter for sheet layouts.
But if you go to the Felder owners group there's a guy there called David Best and I believe he has gone deep into this subject.
 
I'll 2nd CutList Optimizer as put forward by @Malc2098 👍. Great for helping with the cutting layout on sheet material. I've used it twice now to help me work out which *offcut* pieces of MFC and ply to use for pieces I needed. Saved me lots of time for sure.
 
Agreed, CutList Optimiser is very good for sheet goods. Carolyn uses it to plan leatherwork projects too: smaller scale, but still essentially cutting rectangles out of bigger rectangles.
 
T o add to that Dr. Al wrote: I have been using BricsCAD for a long time now. It doesn't have specific tools geared towards woodworking, although there are some plug-ins available. But you can create your own library of pre-drawn stuff. For me there were a few reasons I chose this software:
- It is available for Linux (for all major platforms in fact)
- It is relatively affordable
- It does 2D and 3D
- It is easy to learn
- It has a CLI interface (those using AutoCAD will be familiar with it)
- It has a good rendering engine
They have a free trial version on their site that you can try out. There is also a free bare-bones version. I a not sure, but I think that version is online only.
 
Is this the sort of thing you mean?

That looks interesting, I'll give it a go, thanks.
 
T o add to that Dr. Al wrote: I have been using BricsCAD for a long time now. It doesn't have specific tools geared towards woodworking, although there are some plug-ins available. But you can create your own library of pre-drawn stuff. For me there were a few reasons I chose this software:
- It is available for Linux (for all major platforms in fact)
- It is relatively affordable
- It does 2D and 3D
- It is easy to learn
- It has a CLI interface (those using AutoCAD will be familiar with it)
- It has a good rendering engine
They have a free trial version on their site that you can try out. There is also a free bare-bones version. I a not sure, but I think that version is online only.

That's one of the few I've never tried (I did a comparison trial of loads of different CAD systems a few years ago), so thanks for sharing that.

It looks like an interesting tool. Does it support STEP export (something I consider an essential feature)?
 
Great advice, thank you all.
I'm gonna opt for Dr, Al's CAD suggestion and give Solidworks a go. Black Friday deal so 50% off, only £24 for 1 year.
I'm going in.
 
I've been a sketchup user for years, and can work with it quite well, (Dave Richards who posts on here, show its full capabilities better than I ever can) I have an add on extension, Cutlist, that works within it, as long as you draw the parts as defined named components, produces a cutting list as a CSV file as well as the option of a graphic layout drawing of the parts, based on defined stock sizes (I dont use that element though).

I use it to produce drawings as presentations to customers (woodwork/furniture and architectural) and can then use the CSV file (for the woody stuff), to price from and then go select the material, so for me it works really well.

For example, this is a drawing for a customer, who wants a storage solution for his record player, LP's and amps etc, that I am working on, the cutlist is also shown (it's not finished though)

Credenza_layout.png

I know people like Fusion 360, and other options, but to me they are to technical and advanced for what is, just basic wood working.
 
I've been a sketchup user for years, and can work with it quite well, (Dave Richards who posts on here, show its full capabilities better than I ever can) I have an add on extension, Cutlist, that works within it, as long as you draw the parts as defined named components, produces a cutting list as a CSV file as well as the option of a graphic layout drawing of the parts, based on defined stock sizes (I dont use that element though).

I use it to produce drawings as presentations to customers (woodwork/furniture and architectural) and can then use the CSV file (for the woody stuff), to price from and then go select the material, so for me it works really well.

For example, this is a drawing for a customer, who wants a storage solution for his record player, LP's and amps etc, that I am working on, the cutlist is also shown (it's not finished though)

View attachment 37104

I know people like Fusion 360, and other options, but to me they are to technical and advanced for what is, just basic wood working.
I've just checked SketchUp out briefly, would you say it caters more for Apple users? It seems to mention iPad and iOS a lot. Basic plan is £113 per annum
 
I've just checked SketchUp out briefly, would you say it caters more for Apple users? It seems to mention iPad and iOS a lot. Basic plan is £113 per annum
I have a legacy paid up version running on a Windows PC, and to be honest, I am not the person to talk to about technical stuff, just a simple wood worker here......
 
Being the tight Yorkshireman that I am and with the belief that "Tha never gets out fer nowt" I'm gonna risk £24
 
I don't use STEP myself, because I don't have a 3D printer or something like that. Not yet. So, I had to look it up for you. It seems for STEP import/export you need the Communicator add-on for BricsCAD.

See https://www.bricsys.com/bricscad/communicator
It's not just for 3D printing, it's an insurance policy. If your chosen CAD system stops working at any point in the future, STEP is the most broadly importable file-format. You're probably okay with BricsCAD as I think DWG (at least the 2D-variety) is quite well supported but in general STEP is best.

@kevcad Get into the habit of exporting STEP and Parasolid files of your models. STEP is importable into any decent CAD system; for CAD systems that use the Parasolid engine (Solidworks, Solid Edge, NX, Onshape and many others), Parasolid will give you slightly better results so is worth having as well.
 
I'm still using sketchup make 2017 which is the last standalone free version of sketchup. It runs on your PC and saves files to your drive - no web browser involved. A quick google shows downloads of the program are still out there.
 
I fully agree about the importance of proper archival. You certainly don't want to lose access to your drawings sometime in the future for whatever reason (e.g. failure of storage, ransomware, or even borked updates). But sadly parasolid is not available for the Linux version. And I didn't want to buy a third-party program for it (they are available). For the moment I archive drawings to DWG/DXF. Up to now that has proven to be sufficient.
 
I fully agree about the importance of proper archival. You certainly don't want to lose access to your drawings sometime in the future for whatever reason (e.g. failure of storage, ransomware, or even borked updates). But sadly parasolid is not available for the Linux version. And I didn't want to buy a third-party program for it (they are available). For the moment I archive drawings to DWG/DXF. Up to now that has proven to be sufficient.
I think you're probably right about DWG/DXF being a safe bet. 3D DWG/DXF files aren't as well supported as 2D ones, but there are options out there. STEP is the most universal (and personally I wouldn't use a CAD system that didn't support exporting in that format). Parasolid export is only worth it if you use a Parasolid-based CAD tool (but if you do then it's definitely worth it as there are a lot of them).
 
The software I use is Qcad, there is a free version and it is not hard to use. It is 2D and has all the features you might need and supports a range of formats with a gooo help forum. It has a library where you can put components you have drawn so they can be re used in future drawings as well as the ability to save a part as a local block within just the drawing you are working on. For example you might have a door which is used on six cabinets, you edit the door saved as a local block and these changes are reflected in all the six doors on your drawing. I have a library of router cutter profiles, you can arrange these to work out what is needed to make a built up profile and if you have the cutters needed. There is also an add on for G code export.

 
Good suggestion @Spectric. I've used Qcad (and LibreCAD, the free version) quite a bit and for 2D CAD it's pretty good. I found it a bit frustrating at first as at the time I was quite used to the Autocad command-line shortcuts, but for simple 2D drawing it does work well.
 
QCAD is great. I used it for 2D, but in the end I switched to BricsCAD. If I remember correctly I paid only €29? Not sure anymore. But for what you get it is a steal. I found its developer to be very service-oriented, which is always a plus in my book. Sadly, it doesn't do 3D.
 
I was quite used to the Autocad command-line shortcuts
Back in the day autocad was what everyone used and was taught, command line, graphic's tablet and programable keyboards was the norm but now you actually draw rather than give commands for the program to draw which is so much easier. I find I use it almost like a sketchpad to give ideas some reality and I take dimensions straight off the drawing for cut list so it is precise.
 
I've just checked SketchUp out briefly, would you say it caters more for Apple users? It seems to mention iPad and iOS a lot. Basic plan is £113 per annum
No, not at all. It certainly runs on Windows. I'm another who is still using SketchUp 2017, so everything is on my own machine.
@Dave R is the king of SU and has an ongoing thread here.
Dave is very generous with his knowledge and can help you to get going. He also does paid online training sessions. You can PM him directly from this forum.
S

Edit - I think I still have the original installation files on my system, somewhere.
 
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Back in the day (1980s) I worked for a company called PAFEC. It started as a spinoff from Nottingham University (before universities got wise tot he fact that their lecturers were creating Intellectual Property and then setting up on their own...). PAFEC was a Program for Automatic Finite Element Calculations and was world-leading. The company then diversified into many other design products. I worked on DOGS (Design Office Graphics System), DOGS3D and SWANS (Surfaces With A Nice Shape). There were other members of the menagerie, too. PIGS and PANTHERS come to mind, but I can't remeber what they stood for.

The MDs objective for DOGS was to design a 2D design package that could be sold in the marketplace for less that 100K a pop, IIRC. Groundbreaking at the time

PAFEC and Autocad were the market leaders and always head-to-head for final selection. Eventually, however, PAFEC began to lose out more and more, the company was sold. Soon afterwards it disappeared completely and AutoCad prevailed. Nice while it lasted. I went to places I would never othrwise have experienced. India, Pakistan, Canada, Finland, Russia, all over Europe. But in reality, once you've seen one airport, taxi, hotel, conference centre, restaurant table for one... you've seen them all. Wherever they are.
S
PS I had the best Chinese ever at the Blue Diamond - in Hyderabad, India. Circa 1988.
 
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I'm still using sketchup make 2017 which is the last standalone free version of sketchup. It runs on your PC and saves files to your drive - no web browser involved. A quick google shows downloads of the program are still out there.
I also run it on my Mac
 
Back in the day (1980s) I worked for a company called PAFEC. It started as a spinoff from Nottingham University (before universities got wise tot he fact that their lecturers were creating Intellectual Property and then setting up on their own...). PAFEC was a Program for Automatic Finite Element Calculations and was world-leading. The company then diversified into many other design products. I worked on DOGS (Design Office Graphics System), DOGS3D and SWANS (Surfaces With A Nice Shape). There were other members of the menagerie, too. PIGS and PANTHERS come to mind, but I can't remeber what they stood for.

The MDs objective for DOGS was to design a 2D design package that could be sold in the marketplace for less that 100K a pop, IIRC. Groundbreaking at the time

PAFEC and Autocad were the market leaders and always head-to-head for final selection. Eventually, however, PAFEC began to lose out more and more, the company was sold. Soon afterwards it disappeared completely and AutoCad prevailed. Nice while it lasted. I went to places I would never othrwise have experienced. India, Pakistan, Canada, Finland, Russia, all over Europe. But in reality, once you've seen one airport, taxi, hotel, conference centre, restaurant table for one... you've seen them all. Wherever they are.
S
PS I had the best Chinese ever at the Blue Diamond - in Hyderabad, India. Circa 1988.
What was your role Steve?

How did you find Russia?
 
What was your role Steve?

How did you find Russia?
I was there seven years. I started in the Training department, running courses for new customers and advanced courses for existing customers who had a bit of experience. Most of the courses were held at Strelley Hall, the company HQ and the MD's home. He still lives there. Part of the building dates back to the 1200s, though most of it is later. I saw him just a few months ago. He's an old man now, stooped, but still as excited by technology as ever and rides his bicycle every day. Currently working on a project to measure the surface of paint to a ridiculous degree of precision. I have no idea why that is important, but apparently it is.
When the company created software to program CNC machines, I asked if I could be part of it,. I knew about tools and machinery, so my bos simply said Yes. So I trained customers how to use that, wrote Post-Processors to drive different controllers (Siemens, Fanuc, Colchester etc, all slightly different despite there being an ISO standard for these things...). Also, the software was far from perfect, it was released to meet a deadline rather than when it was actually fit for purpose. This rather annoyed some long-standing customers. I became something of a fire-fighter. Part of the software was a set of programming tools called UDCs, or User-Defined Commands. I got rather good at using these to circumvent gaps in the program's core functionality. :)

Whilst most of the training was done at company HQ, we (there were 3 of us) regularly went out to customers' premises. Sometimes in the UK, but often abroad. It was cheaper to send me to India than to send 20 Indians to the UK. I stayed at the Ritz. Now don't get excited, it was a Ritz rather than the Ritz. When I got there, there was no room at the inn, but they found me a "room at the back". There were coffee cups on the table and the bed was not made. The bedstead legs sat in tin cans of paraffin to stop creepy-crawleys getting onto the bed proper. In the bar, I witnessed the barman going round the room collecting half-finished glasses and pouring them back into the bottle.

There was a new, 5*, hotel in the city, but it was fully booked because the cricket world cup was on, so it was full of cricketers, TV crews and journalists. So no room for me. Even so, it was very interesting trip and I'm glad I did it.

As to Russia. Sigh.

Late 80s. Leningrad (now St Petersburg). There were not flights to Leningrad every day and there were none the day before I had to work, so I had a flight the day prior to that. Unfortunately for me, it was 1 day before my Visa was valid, so I got arrested by a man armed with a Kalashnikov as soon as I tried to go through Immigration. I was detained, not in a cell or anything harsh like that, but I wasn't allowed in. I thought they were going to keep me there until midnight and then let me in. Actually, all they want to ensure was that I was goingt o be safe, not on the street for a night. Fortunately I did have a hotel booked, so as soon as they had verified where I was going to be, I was allowed in.

I got a taxi. Sort of. This bloke picked me up and when we got to his car, I pointed out thet there was no Taxi sign on the roof. "Gorbachev taxi", was the answer. He was being an Entrepeneur. I was safe, but one of my colleagues went to the same place and was robbed, left standing with nothing. They even took his shoes, it must have been terrifying.

The hotel, the Prebaltiskia, IIRC, was a black granite monolith, 2000 beds. Unfortunately there were only 1200 covers for dinner. You had to book everything through the service desk, which didn't open until 9am, by which time I was in the office. So when I got back at 6pm, it was all booked up. When I asked how I was supposed to eat, I just got a shrug. I could see the tables for offiial tourists, all nice with tablecloths and flowers, but I was not a tourist and that room was not available to me. So I had to bribe people to make chicken and chips or somesuch.

On one occasion I suggested to the translator that we went out for dinner. I may as well have suggested that we go to the moon.. At that time Leningrad had about 5 million residents. There 5 restaurants. Nevertheless, one day I was informed that we had a table at a restaurant. It was very nice in appearance, nice tablecloths, the glasses only sighty chipped. As we walked in, the cabaret, male guitarist and female singer, were just finishing their set, so we missed that. When the food arrived, my host was drooling. I was trying hard not to gag. God knows what she usually eats.

Occasionally I did get a seat in the posh restaurant at the top. On one occasion a professional-looking bloke asked if he could share my table. I was a bit wary but agreed. He spoke decent English, but he was Russian. The hotel did not serve Russians, so all the staff ignored him. I ordered for him, we had a perfectly civil evening and he paid his half of the bill.

But on another occasion a couple ladies asked if they could share my table. I was niaive... I'd be about 30, one was a bit older thanme and the other was early 20s, I suppose. After dinner they asked if we could go to my room. I was VERY niaive! After a few minutes the older woman siad quite plainly that the wanted to have sex with me. Now I was a single bloke, no woman in my life, but even in that state I wasn't remotely interested. Apart from the ehics and bilogical risks of it all. They didn't smell very nice. Well you wouldn't smell nice either if you didn't have access to soap. So when they realised that they had been wasting their evening, they left. They asked if they could have the soap from the bathroom and the tub of peanuts (only available from the hard currency shop next door). I'm the only pesom I know who has paid prostitutes with soap and peanuts.. There were lots of prostitutes in the hotel, I began to realise. They were not allowed in, but once they got in, they stayed for days. I'd see them every day at breakfast with a different, much older, man. It must be a very sad way to have to live.

One Friday, one of the students was missing from class. The day after, my translator took me to the Hermitage museum. An amzing place. It makes the Vatican look like a junk shop. When we got there, there was a line of people down the steps, along the street and round the block, half way to Vladivostock. We just walked in. I asked why we didn't have to queue. It turned out that the day before, Dmitri was absent because he was standing in line to buy tickets so that we could just walk in.

There are more stories about that trip, but this is already a very long post. it was the longest 17 days of my life. It was such a relif to change planes at Helsinki and I could spent £20 on a BLT. It was the most delicious mouthful I'd had in over a fortnight.

S
 
I not only took Latin, I took Russian, too, in 1968. I passed, too.

Добрый день. About all I can remember.

Done that me wrong, I liked Woodwork best! I could look out the woodwork room window and watch the 5th form girls playing Netball.
 
Thanks Steve. That brought back some horrible memories. I’m guessing this was before The Wall came down? One of my few regrets in life was not to have hopped on a plane on Nov 9th, 1989 with a hammer.

Did you remember to take a sink plug with you ?
 
I run Sketchup 2015 (free version) under Linux Mint (using Wine).

I like it, but it does lack a few functions that you'd find in an expensive CAD product, such as step-and-repeat. That said there are a number of handy plugins, including ones for things like filled spirals (screwthreads, for example). And I think there is one for cutlists but I haven't tried it.
 
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