Dreadnought SS Guitar (Now to complete the cutaway model)

[Dr.Al]

I'm still reading this with interest, although I don't have much to say. I think I'm following most of what you're doing, although I don't know enough about musical instruments or woodwork to really be able to guess why you're doing the things until after I've seen the finished result!

 

[Phil]

I'm still reading this with interest, although I don't have much to say. I think I'm following most of what you're doing, although I don't know enough about musical instruments or woodwork to really be able to guess why you're doing the things until after I've seen the finished result!

+1

Malc, have a look at this site.

The chap is a friend of our old neighbour who now lives in Canada, he visited us last month.

The chap had a business building cupboards etc and did our dressing room cupboards in the old-new house in about 1983.

The last time I saw him he was making violins, my neighbour then told me he is into guitars as well and sells them to the USA at about $6,000 each.

There is more information on the site.

https://murraykuun.com

 

[Malc2098]

+1

Malc, have a look at this site.

The chap is a friend of our old neighbour who now lives in Canada, he visited us last month.

The chap had a business building cupboards etc and did our dressing room cupboards in the old-new house in about 1983.

The last time I saw him he was making violins, my neighbour then told me he is into guitars as well and sells them to the USA at about $6,000 each.

There is more information on the site.

https://murraykuun.com

Wow! He must have a helluva output. They are nice looking instruments. $2000 US for a ukulele. There's a 'glass ceiling' here in the UK. The ukulele, outside of its player market, is still considered old fashioned, unlike elsewhere in the world. It would only be a professional player that is likely to pay that much.

The UK independent solo luthiers generally start their stock instruments at about £4000 to £5000, and their commissioned instruments much more than that.

But, this is my hobby. I'm no expert. I post on here so there's may consider getting the enjoyment I do from handcrafting instruments. And I only make two instruments a year.

However, if anyone wants to buy one of my instruments, just PM me.

 

[AJB Temple]

I still think you could sell in one of the specialist shops Malc, as a limited edition line. If they sound good and play well. Two a year means rarity value and you could buy more tools.....

I've always thought that the likes of George Formby destroyed the Ukulele market in this country with comedy songs and weird voice. It meant the instrument was not cool or fashionable. There's also probably not much solo repertoire for it, limited tab etc.

 

[Malc2098]

Thanks, Adrian. You offering to be my agent?

There's loads of solo repertoire for it, just not in the UK. It's possibly now not cool to play because it's associated with primary schools, where it's overtaken the recorder as the cheap instrument to achieve a tune, and senior citizens, who play in ensembles.

However, for an example of classical interpretation: -

It might not be one's idea of what 'classical' should be, nor one's idea of how to solo an instrument, but it's nothing like George Formby.

(BTW, I studied Carmen by Prosper Merimee for A Level French in 1968 - lots of blood and gore, I seem to remember.)

 

[Malc2098]

Before I fit the frets to the fretboard and the fretboard to the neck ('cos I did buy those expensive tools with the logistical help of one of our members and I'm waiting for them to arrive), I need to mark the bolt holes in the neck and hand carve the excess away from the routed heel shape.



Take a couple of M6 bolts and sharpen their ends, then cut them just long enough…..




…..to stick out of the threaded inserts a bit.




Take sharpie and dollop some ink on the sharpened tips.



Fit the tenon accurately into the mortise and transfer the ink into the holes the printed bolts made.



Next, time to start removing excess.



A selection of rasps.



I found the microplane best to get the most off...



….followed the Iwasaki tapered half round file…





...followed by 220 grit paper wrapped around a 50mm sanding drum to take the last few microns down to the routed edge. You can just see the remains of the pencil line that I marked on the edge to let me know where to stop.



Rinse and repeat on the other side.




And a nice shapely heel is created.




Far more by luck than judgement, the heel fits almost perfectly. I still have a little work to do to align the neck in the X and Y axes.




Lastly I tested the fitting of the bolts by drilling their holes up from 6mm on a test piece (for M6) up 0.5mm at time to 7mm, till I could feed and turn the bolts by hand for at least 3/4 of the thread. Because the inserts don't go into the tenons exactly vertical, and because to keep testing the X and Y axes for alignment the neck has to keep getting bolted on and taken off.

The rest of the hand carving of the heel and neck will take place after I have fitted the fretboard and neck together.

 

[duke]

Before I fit the frets to the fretboard and the fretboard to the neck ('cos I did buy those expensive tools with the logistical help of one of our members and I'm waiting for them to arrive), I need to mark the bolt holes in the neck and hand carve the excess away from the routed heel shape.

View attachment 26571

Take a couple of M6 bolts and sharpen their ends, then cut them just long enough…..


View attachment 26572

…..to stick out of the threaded inserts a bit.


View attachment 26573

Take sharpie and dollop some ink on the sharpened tips.

View attachment 26574

Fit the tenon accurately into the mortise and transfer the ink into the holes the printed bolts made.



Next, time to start removing excess.

View attachment 26575

A selection of rasps.

View attachment 26576

I found the microplane best to get the most off...

View attachment 26577

….followed the Iwasaki tapered half round file…


View attachment 26578


...followed by 220 grit paper wrapped around a 50mm sanding drum to take the last few microns down to the routed edge. You can just see the remains of the pencil line that I marked on the edge to let me know where to stop.

View attachment 26579

Rinse and repeat on the other side.


View attachment 26580

And a nice shapely heel is created.


View attachment 26581

Far more by luck than judgement, the heel fits almost perfectly. I still have a little work to do to align the neck in the X and Y axes.

View attachment 26582


Lastly I tested the fitting of the bolts by drilling their holes up from 6mm on a test piece (for M6) up 0.5mm at time to 7mm, till I could feed and turn the bolts by hand for at least 3/4 of the thread. Because the inserts don't go into the tenons exactly vertical, and because to keep testing the X and Y axes for alignment the neck has to keep getting bolted on and taken off.

The rest of the hand carving of the heel and neck will take place after I have fitted the fretboard and neck together.

Looks as if the neck fits the body nicely.

 

[Malc2098]

Looks as if the neck fits the body nicely.

Thanks, Duke, but not quite. I've still got the lat and long angles to get spot on.

 

[Malc2098]

Time to fit the neck with the bolts and check the axes.



So pleased with that neck joint as the bolts pull it tight.



Sorry about the lighting, but it's as good as the other side.



And I'm blowed that everything lines up open this instrument! (The other won't be so symmetrical.)



On to checking the X alignment. Two straight edges either side of the fretboard should be equidistant from the centre line at the tail.



34.0mm : 33.5mm. I'll take that, thank you.






It's beginning to look like a proper instrument now.


Not all went so well. I fitted the upper threaded insert without checking the depth of the transverse brace between the soundhole and the neck block. The brace was preventing me from getting the allen wrench straight into the bolt socket. I had to fashion a half round out of the brace to allow this. This makes the brace a little weaker along with truss rod socket access hole. Not to self to check this on the next pair of instruments.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Malc, I've dropped in betimes on this beautifully detailed thread; I salute your patience and p'raps more importantly, your planning. Nice one Kid.

 

[fiveeyes]

Looking very nice.

 

[AJB Temple]

I like the fretboard heel end shaping just past 20th fret. Nice job that and a bit out of the ordinary. How are you anchoring the truss rod inside out of interest?

 

[Malc2098]

I like the fretboard heel end shaping just past 20th fret. Nice job that and a bit out of the ordinary. How are you anchoring the truss rod inside out of interest?

Thank you, Adrian. The shaping helps conceal the rosette joins. Rather than just squaring off the fretboard, it makes a little detail of it.

The truss rod is a two way truss rod. the nuts at each end are square, so it sits in the routed channel and does not twist as the owner tightens the rod one way or the other. The top bar just flexes against the fretboard to resist the pull of the strings.

 

[Robert]

Very nice Malc.

A while back I thought to myself the joins in the trim around the hole are a bit obvious.... what joins?

 

[Malc2098]

Very nice Malc.

A while back I thought to myself the joins in the trim around the hole are a bit obvious.... what joins?

Thanks, Robert. The fretboard always covers the joins, even if the player never goes up there. But there are different ways of finishing the shape of the fretboard. This just happens to be on the plans I have and were easy to mill with the CNC when I was milling the fretboard. I rather like this shape.

 

[Malc2098]

Malc, I've dropped in betimes on this beautifully detailed thread; I salute your patience and p'raps more importantly, your planning. Nice one Kid.

Thanks, Sam. Kid?!! Praps you should pop down to specsavers.

 

[Malc2098]

Looking very nice.

Thanks, 5E,

 

[Malc2098]

Sorting out the axes for the cutaway mode was a little more tricky.

Not only that, but it seems that using the hellishly expensive jig to rout the mortise and tenon, I might not have got it quite centrally aligned.



Anyway, on to sorting out the fretboard alignment along the body centre line.




See that little dark gap at the end of the heel, that's got to go.





The other side is better.

So how do I make the gap go away?




I loosen the blots a little, place abrasive under the side needed to reduce….




…and pull. Only, I'm holding the camera. The other hand has to bear down on the heel and the abrasive pulled out against that pressure.

Now you might not believe this, but too many pulls and pendulum swings the other way. So I then have to do the same the other side, and flatten the tiny end of the heel to make it work.



Eventually I got to a tolerance I was OK with.




I'll settle again for 0.5mm out each side.




No gap this side.





Hmm. Near enough for only my second instrument like this.




The cutaway model is beginning to look like a proper instrument, too.

 

[AJB Temple]

Bit annoying about the back, but you can probably disguise it with a heel plate. Far more important to get the top lined up properly and you've done a good job of that by the look of it. Are you going to find a way of achieving a smooth transition from fretboard /neck into the cutaway? I would say that is pretty essential from a player's perspective, especially as this design is intended to give higher fret access.

 

[duke]

Malc, I have the guitar build book by Campano regarding building a guitar. Bought it thinking ok I can do this, but following your build I can say no.

 

[Malc2098]

Bit annoying about the back, but you can probably disguise it with a heel plate. Far more important to get the top lined up properly and you've done a good job of that by the look of it. Are you going to find a way of achieving a smooth transition from fretboard /neck into the cutaway? I would say that is pretty essential from a player's perspective, especially as this design is intended to give higher fret access.

Thanks, Adrian. There is a heel plate already fitted. I'm not sure about the transition. I don't like like it is, but I have followed the plans. I even had the cnc mill the slight curve into the neck block just below the red arrow to accept the curve of the rim.






It's my first venetian cutaway instrument, so I'll leave it as it is and learn from it.

 

[Malc2098]

Malc, I have the guitar build book by Campano regarding building a guitar. Bought it thinking ok I can do this, but following your build I can say no.

Sure you can, Duke. Why not treat yourself to a kit from somewhere like Blues Creek. I got my 12 String Kit from him. That's what started me off on this journey during lockdown. Or maybe even consider a guitar making course with Blackwood Guitars at Mallorytown.

 

[Robert]

Impressive accuracy you achieve Malc. Just a thought - I have a Chesterman 600mm steel rule that has never been damaged but it is not straight edged. Maybe half a mm or less concave one edge and same convex the other. have you checked your rules are trustworthy?

 

[Malc2098]

Impressive accuracy you achieve Malc. Just a thought - I have a Chesterman 600mm steel rule that has never been damaged but it is not straight edged. Maybe half a mm or less concave one edge and same convex the other. have you checked your rules are trustworthy?

Thanks, Robert. Good idea. I'll give it a go.

But I think the offset of the mortise was down to my haste to rout it out without checking every possible alignment.

 

[AJB Temple]

That is very interesting on the plan Malc. I am super surprised and wondered if it is an error in the drawing. From a player perspective (and I am mainly a pianist these days) personally I would reject a guitar where I cannot slide my hand into 5th position comfortably to play 12th fret pentatonic say, without my little finger snagging on the body when reaching for the 15th or 17th fret. But maybe it's just personal preference and as I mainly play electric these days, where higher neck positions are more usual (easier for bends etc), perhaps I am overly influenced by that. Most guitarists who have played a lot have peccadillos: I've bought guitars in the past solely because I liked the neck feel in my hand. My own cutaway Taylor acoustic 814CE (different cutaway shape mind you) has a smooth transition into the neck, but looking at pictures on line I can see some guitars have a small projection like yours. I live and learn!

 

[Malc2098]

That is very interesting on the plan Malc. I am super surprised and wondered if it is an error in the drawing. From a player perspective (and I am mainly a pianist these days) personally I would reject a guitar where I cannot slide my hand into 5th position comfortably to play 12th fret pentatonic say, without my little finger snagging on the body when reaching for the 15th or 17th fret. But maybe it's just personal preference and as I mainly play electric these days, where higher neck positions are more usual (easier for bends etc), perhaps I am overly influenced by that. Most guitarists who have played a lot have peccadillos: I've bought guitars in the past solely because I liked the neck feel in my hand. My own cutaway Taylor acoustic 814CE (different cutaway shape mind you) has a smooth transition into the neck, but looking at pictures on line I can see some guitars have a small projection like yours. I live and learn!

Well, there you go.

I agree it's doesn't look right. I don't know how it feels yet. I also think that because a Florentine cutaway has continual curve to its apex, ( for our readers mine is a Venetian cutaway) and therefore the lower rim is made in two pieces, that it might be easier create it level with the body at the 15th and 16th frets. I was able to do that with the Florentine Ukulele I made last year.

 

[Malc2098]

At last the two special tools have arrived from abroad with the logistical help of one of our members.

So, it's time to start fitting the frets to the fretboard(s). You may remember that the fretboards were milled on the CNC router including the stopped fret slots.





So, here's the milled fretboard, the coil of fret wire and the two special tools.

The top one is called a fret tang nipper, and that's all it does; it nips of the end of the tang so I can fit the tang in the stopped end slots.

The bottom one is an end cutter, but without the chamfer on the top, which lets me cut so close the edge of the fretboard, it needs hardly any filing back.




Thet's the business end of the FTN; it's just a blade and anvil. But it does have fitments that allow many sizes of fret wire to fit in the anvil.



Even Knippex cutters have a chamfer on the top. I've tried grinding cheap ones to shape, but it just doesn't work.





The end of the fret wire fits in the anvil, and by closing the handles, the cutter bears against the tang and cuts over the anvil.





See what I mean?





That's the result.





And like many ways of cutting you only cut a small bit at a time to get to the measurement you want.





The job is to cut 20 frets, 40 ends, all different lengths.





That's not the end of it! (The fret press caul is just to whet your appetite.)





The remnants of the tangs have to be filed off so the fret tip is flat underneath.





So, in the absence of an arbor press, I'm using my drill press to press the the frets into the fretboard. Published advice is to wick a little thin CA glue into the slots before pressing.





20 frets pressed in and almost all of them nipped off with the new cutters.





Done, and the excess glue scraped off and the fret tips filed back to 45 degrees with another special tool that does just that!





And that's not the end of it! The fret ends now have to be filed into a semihemispherical shape. (Try saying that after a couple of sherbets).

I'm not very good at that, so I might just leave them as a semicircular shape. That's tomorrow's job before gluing the fretboard and neck together. The frets then have to wait to be dressed until all of the instrument is put together.

 

[Phil]

Impressive Malc, very!

 

[Malc2098]

Impressive Malc, very!

Thanks, Phil.

 

[DaveL]

That is a useful set of tools
The fret board looks great

 

[Robert]

Nice job. Your new cropping tool to take off some tang looks a safe way of doing it but a jig to hold the fret and an angle grinder with sanding disc would have been faster and no filing. That's the production engineer in me speaking not the craftsman! Do carry on

 

[Malc2098]

That is a useful set of tools
The fret board looks great

Thanks, DaveL. The frets are even shiner today. I've found some extra fine abrasive impregnated rubber discs that fit on my Dremel lookalike.

 

[Malc2098]

Nice job. Your new cropping tool to take off some tang looks a safe way of doing it but a jig to hold the fret and an angle grinder with sanding disc would have been faster and no filing. That's the production engineer in me speaking not the craftsman! Do carry on

Thanks, Robert. I did one complete set with cheap cutters and a Dremel lookalike fine grinding wheel. The cutters bent the metal as well as cutting the tang, and the discs blued the metal. I had to trash the lot. I believe this is the way the pros do it.

The latest acquisition of abrasive impregnated discs have done a better job than I've ever done before in polishing the frets.

 

[Malc2098]

Polished frets. Best I've ever done.



Green disc is extra fine and polishes really well, but wears away doing so. The brown disc is fine but visibly takes away metal if I'm not careful, so I'll stick to the green.

 

[Malc2098]

Twins!

 

[Malc2098]

Before I glue the fretboard to the neck, the truss rod has to be fitted.

The function of the truss rod is to resist and compensate for the pull of the strings. I think I may have posted in an earlier instrument thread that the pull of the strings on a six string guitar is in the region of 150lbs.

This is how it works. It is fitted in a channel in the neck with its top flush with the join between the neck and the fretboard. It comprises a solid square bar at the top and a round rod underneath, the ends of which are opposite threaded into square nuts. the rod and the nuts are the same width as the routed channel.

In it's neutral state, it looks like this.



The gap between the rod and the bar are even.




But when the hex head on the right hand (heel) end is turned less than an eighth of a turn, it shortens the rod thus bending the bar.

Inside the finished neck when the instrument is finished and strung up to pitch, the strings pull the neck, the truss rod resists and bit. But as the Instrument is used in time, the neck can give a little, and that little tweak on the hex head of the rod, pulls it back a tad, hopefully to its original position. The hex head is accessible via the instrument sound hole. Some designs have it the other way round and make it accessible from the headstock.

Even though the square ends fit into the groove, I'm helping it stay there with some Araldite original.





What I haven't shown you, and that you can't see, is that because of the possibility of the parts of the truss rod vibrating against eachother within its channel while the instrument issuing played, I've laid a bed of clear silicone along the bottom of the channel which will squeeze between the bar and the rod preventing vibration.

 

[Malc2098]

Having glued the fretboard and neck together…..






….it's time to prepare to carve the necks. The caul is grooved at all the fret positions so there is equal pressure along its length.




I've fashioned a carving jig to secure the neck assembly while I carve.




Which gives me flexibility od position when I get round to carving.

But before that, even…..





…I have to create the templates for the neck profile in different places. The templates include the depth of the fretboard.

 

[Malc2098]

First carve, at the 10th fret using microplane….



…...handstitched rasp, and 'shoe-shine' abrasive strip.



Result!





This was the way I was taught carve a neck. Start at the 10th fret, and do not try and curve the movement of the file/rasp. Do four straight strokes at angles of something like 20, 40, 60, 80 roughly from vertical on one side for about four repeats, then repeat on the other side.

Continue frequently checking with the template.

Then when you're close, use the 'shoeshine' method with abrasive strip to even out all the rough spots and the curve.

 

[Malc2098]

1st fret profile done.




The trick now is to join the two profiles together.



But I might try shiaping the heel to the tenth fret profile first.

 

[Malc2098]

Joining the ends….

…..first with the spokeshave….




…..then with a sanding board using the straight strokes to start with, and only using curved strokes as you get near the profile.



Finally using the 'shoeshine' method with both wide and narrow abrasive strips.

Back to carving.