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Linseed Oil Paint

W

Windows

Old Oak
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Any fans of the linseed oil paint? I remember Roger was pro then anti. Anyone else got experience of it? I’m thinking of getting some samples from Brouns for exterior woodwork.
 
I ordered some sample pots and a book from Brouns.

I’ve done a 3 coat test of the Cambridge white and it’s close enough to the white we have already that I can use it for patching.

(Some people would find the different sheen & texture between linseed and the existing gloss to be unacceptable for patching exterior windows. I’m not one of those people).

The first two coats were each dry enough after 24 hours to allow application of the next coat. It’s quite sunny at the moment so that helped.

Brouns are quite keen to sell you brushes and I actually got their ox hair laying off brush, but I haven’t used it yet. So far I’ve just used a synthetic sash brush from Lidl. Linseed paint is very runny, but the brush holds & deposits the paint just fine. As far as I can tell, there’s no real danger of leaving brush marks in the new paint because it’s so so runny, instead the risk of brush marks comes if you drag the tacky previous coat. With my light hand and the good drying weather, there doesn’t seem much chance of that being a problem. Besides, with the linseed paint layers being so thin, the wood texture remains quite prominent so brush marks would have to be really extreme to stand out.
 
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The linseed paint feels like it goes a long way, but it definitely needs at least 3 coats to get an even cover.

There is one issue with using this paint for existing windows: you can’t really use the paint to fill gaps or bridge gaps because it’s so runny. For example, on old windows with old putty, it is common for the putty to have pulled away from the glass just slightly leaving a little gap. It doesn’t seem possible to fill this gap or bridge this gap with linseed paint. Similarly if there’s a dent in the wood where a weather bar has been nailed on, the paint isn’t going to fill it to smooth it out. It’s interesting to notice how frequently I’ve used thicker paint to fill little deficits like this.
 
The third coat is not yet dry after 24 hours. We had some moisture overnight and overcast this morning so presumably that is the cause. It looks ok except for the fly caught in it.
 
Windows said:
The third coat is not yet dry after 24 hours. We had some moisture overnight and overcast this morning so presumably that is the cause. It looks ok except for the fly caught in it.
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No it isn't the moisture. Linseed oil paint is vile.
 
This video from New Yorkshire Workshop contained a good tip: use a glove to go over your pots containing brush & oil to keep the air out.

 
RogerS said:
No it isn't the moisture. Linseed oil paint is vile.
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I mean that my theory is that the clouds & drizzle dropped the UV & temp slightly compared to the previous 2 days so slowed curing (not that the moisture itself has much effect). But maybe it’s just cause it’s the third coat?

Tell me more about how it’s vile. I love a good horror story. It’s definitely different to other paint I’ve used. Do I recall correctly that you used Allback paint without adding zinc oxide and it went mouldy?
 
Windows said:
Tell me more about how it’s vile. I love a good horror story. It’s definitely different to other paint I’ve used. Do I recall correctly that you used Allback paint without adding zinc oxide and it went mouldy?
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Spot on. One of the reasons why I'll never use it again. You've already found the second reason !
 
I used Viking linseed oil paint (white) on the rafter end grain of my Japanese shed. I applied the paint in fall before the rains came. One thinned coat to start then a top coat. Each dried in a few days. After two long wet Oregon winters it still looks new. No mould at all.
 
GaryR said:
I used Viking linseed oil paint (white) on the rafter end grain of my Japanese shed. I applied the paint in fall before the rains came. One thinned coat to start then a top coat. Each dried in a few days. After two long wet Oregon winters it still looks new. No mould at all.
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Viking has zinc oxide added to stop mould.
 
Is zinc oxide particularly bad? The safety section of the Wikipedia page is not ringing alarm bells.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Zinc oxide - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

I’m still in the experimental stage with the linseed paint, but looks like I’m going to do at least three full windows this summer if nothing crops up to put me off.

The third coat of the paint was fully touch dry within 48 hours, with the first two coats each touch dry within 24 hours so not worried about drying time.
 
Windows said:
Is zinc oxide particularly bad? The safety section of the Wikipedia page is not ringing alarm bells.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Zinc oxide - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

I’m still in the experimental stage with the linseed paint, but looks like I’m going to do at least three full windows this summer if nothing crops up to put me off.

The third coat of the paint was fully touch dry within 48 hours, with the first two coats each touch dry within 24 hours so not worried about drying time.
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It's bad for the environment

Yes, zinc oxide, especially in its nanoparticle form, can be harmful to the environment, particularly aquatic ecosystems. This is due to its toxicity to marine life, including corals, and its potential to leach into water systems and adsorb onto microplastics, which can then be ingested by aquatic organisms
 
I’ll look into that and ask some questions of Brouns. I’m pretty keen not to pollute the environment. I find it hard to know if I should be more or less concerned about it than the microplastic acrylic in Little Greene paint (which I also use) or the lead compounds that shed off lead flashing. Where did you learn about the effects of zinc oxide? Won’t other types of paint also use zinc or titanium oxide pigments for whites & lights?
 
Well, this from Google's AI. End of the day, it's your choice and that is also my 'end'.

Zinc oxide in linseed oil paint is often problematic because it can lead to a reduction in flexibility, increased brittleness, and potential cracking and delamination of paint films over time. This is due to its tendency to react with the fatty acids in the linseed oil, forming "zinc soaps" that can interfere with proper film formation and adhesion.



Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • Brittleness and Cracking:
    Zinc oxide can make the paint film stiffer and more prone to cracking as it ages. This is because it tends to react with the fatty acids in the linseed oil, forming less flexible "zinc soaps" that can compromise the paint's ability to move and adapt to dimensional changes in the underlying surface.
  • Delamination:
    The brittleness and reduced flexibility can also contribute to delamination, where paint layers peel away from each other. This is particularly problematic in paintings where multiple layers of paint have been applied.

  • Zinc Soap Formation:
    Zinc oxide reacts with the free fatty acids in linseed oil, forming zinc carboxylates or "zinc soaps". These soaps can interfere with the proper polymerization of the linseed oil, hindering the formation of a strong, flexible paint film.

  • Efflorescence:
    Zinc oxide can also react with moisture and other elements, leading to efflorescence, a powdery deposit that appears on the surface of the painting.

  • Other Factors:
    While zinc oxide is not universally problematic, its potential for causing issues is well-documented, especially when used in thick layers or in combination with other pigments that react negatively.
In summary, the use of zinc oxide in linseed oil paint, while historically accepted, has been found to raise concerns about the long-term durability and stability of oil paintings. Its tendency to react with linseed oil and form less flexible "zinc soaps" can contribute to increased brittleness, cracking, and potential delamination over time.
 
That’s really interesting. Had a fast look at the art world research related to metal soaps (reduction in flexibility, cracking, etc) and it doesn’t look like something extra to worry about for house paint. They’re talking about effects over 50-200 years on unique works in a medium that isn’t refreshed where appearance is of supreme importance. If the paint job on my windows lasts 5-10 years, I’d be happy. My main goal is that when it fails, the failure is graceful. I just don’t want the paint to catch & hold water.

Brouns’ description of how the linseed paint will age seems to include some of these effects, so I consider this all to be priced in.

As far as I can tell, it’s not unique to zinc. Lead and titanium have similar behaviour.
 
Following up, Brouns stated that their products do not contain zinc nano particles:

“The particles have an average size greater than, 0.4 μm, determined by laser diffraction analysis or equivalent methods, which confirm the significant absence of particles in the range of 1 to 100 nanometers.”
 
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I got some Linseed Oil Paint samples from Earles (https://www.earlespaint.co.uk). I've only used it on one small project so far, but was easy to apply and I am pleased with the finish.
 
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More follow up on this: I painted 5 windows over the summer. It all looks great. It was fun and easy to apply. You have to be aware of drying times, but no problem at all. Drizzle during the drying period (starting 6 hours after application) had precisely zero effect on the result. No signs of any mould. The paint sticks to existing paint, bare wood, putty. No special brush necessary IMO. Have to see how it holds up over years, but I love it so far. I only got 1 litre, but have most of it left. It really goes a long way.
 
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