Looking for a good oak stain

[Steve Maskery]

As I've said in another thread, I'm making a bed from French Oak. It leaves a lot to be desired, TBH, in many ways and one of those is uniformity of appearance.

Now I don't very often stain wood. For oak I would normally give a coat of BLO, then two coats if Osmo. It's an easy finish that any DIYer can do. No dedicated finishing rooms or extraction required, and personally I like the resulting colour.

But I'm worried that this stuff won't play ball, so I'm looking to darken it uniformly. My dad had tins of Colron in the shed and I well remember spilling a tin of Jacobean Dark Oak down me and the resultant hiding from my mother. She never needed much of an excuse. But I digress.

Finishing is probably my biggest weakness in woodworking. I do know from what little I've watched and read that things have moved on, somewhat., since I were a lad. So does anyone who does this sort of stuff regularly have any good recommendations for idiot-proof stains? I live in France now, and it is much harder to find things I recognise, but most things are available, at a price, mail order. Plus, some friends are driving over in a couple of weeks so some tins might be able to cadge a lift.
S

 

[Blackswanwood]

A traditional option would be to use Vandyke crystals. Dissolve in water, play around with the ratio of crystals until you get the shade you want. Obviously being water based it will raise the grain so needs de-nibbling before applying the final finishing product.

Personally, I would favour Chestnut Spirit Stain …https://chestnutproducts.co.uk/product/spirit-stain-wood-colours/

… and finish with …https://chestnutproducts.co.uk/product/hard-wax-oil/

 

[AndyP]

What colour are you after Steve? Very difficult to take accurate before and after photos of stains. I used Rustins Medium Oak spirit stain on a fair few oak tables. To me it helped to highlight the grain. Finish on this oak table was Patina, a hard wax oil.
Not sure if these images help much as they are scanned from pre-digital prints.


And a more recent, and accurate representation of the actual colour, digital image of the same table taken earlier this year

 

[Steve Maskery]

I do have a bag of VD crystals. Well, I used to, I'm not sure where it is now, TBH. I'll have a hunt. I was hoping for something less hit-and-miss.

Andy, as you say, the colour is difficult to reproduce well, but that last picture looks close to what I get from BLO and Osmo.

Incidentally, in Aldi last week I picked up a tin of HWO, made in Germany, clear satin. €9.99 for 750ml. Couldn't resist.

 

[Mike G]

Beware of the VD crystals: they raise the grain. Being water based the grain pops-up everywhere. The problem is that in then sanding that back down you end up removing the colour from the high spots, and can need to re-stain all over again. For ease of use, I'd suggest using a spirit stain. Most of them are Colrons, Rustins, or Chestnut. They're all much of a muchness.

 

[AJB Temple]

I've been down this rabbit hole too. Whatever you use, if you have adjacent dark bits and light bits in the bare wood, then that will persist after staining - but will just be darker or more orange unless you go very dark like a Jacobean colour palate.

It's a bed. No one looks at the bed when they are in it. It's largely covered with bedding anyway. Stick to the normal finish and accept that wood is variable would be my approach.

 

[Doug]

For me on patchy wood which is more than likely to give different rates of absorption & probably end up looking even more patchy when stained I’d go for a water based sanding sealer. Depending on how much denibbing is needed either another coat of sanding sealer or straight on to a water based stain, you just need to get consistent absorption.

 

[AndyT]

Beware of the VD crystals: they raise the grain. Being water based the grain pops-up everywhere. The problem is that in then sanding that back down you end up removing the colour from the high spots, and can need to re-stain all over again. For ease of use, I'd suggest using a spirit stain. Most of them are Colrons, Rustins, or Chestnut. They're all much of a muchness.

You can avoid this problem by first raising the grain with clean hot water. Then sand back level and apply water based stain. The grain won't rise so much second time round.

 

[Raymedullary]

Just avoid (ready made) water based, IME it does not absorb at all well especially on tangential surfaces making it very difficult to get an even result in fact its just plain awful.
As said, any spirit based

 

[Steve Maskery]

It has occurred to me overnight that I could make my own HWO with a dark marine varnish, which I have already, based on the post that Andy made on the subject.

Adrian, you are more right than you realise. Without my contact lenses subtle variations in colout just don't exist!
S

 

[PAC1]

Just avoid (ready made) water based, IME it does not absorb at all well especially on tangential surfaces making it very difficult to get an even result in fact its just plain awful.
As said, any spirit based

It depends.
I use General Finishes water based stains and dyes. The first time I used it, I got it wrong and it was a mess. I had to sand it all off and start again. Before re coating I watched General Finishes video on how to apply the finish and then followed the procedure (there is a first time for everything).
Wow what a difference this is on American Cherry which is renowned for going blotchy:

 

[Lurker]

HWO ??

Edit: hard wax oil ….. silly me!
Apparently here next week
£8.99 for 750ml.

Can you get on and test it Steve, if it’s ok I will buy a can.

 

[Phil]

I went off spirit stains to gel stains.
Found the spirit blotchy, but then again it was on Pine.

 

[Cabinetman]

It depends.
I use General Finishes water based stains and dyes. The first time I used it, I got it wrong and it was a mess. I had to sand it all off and start again. Before re coating I watched General Finishes video on how to apply the finish and then followed the procedure (there is a first time for everything).
Wow what a difference this is on American Cherry which is renowned for going blotchy:
View attachment 33843

Just been looking at all this companies products which are readily available here, I had been wondering which road to go down so thanks!

 

[Cabinetman]

Steve, you say that finishing is your biggest weakness, have you tried water based poly varnish? It’s so easy it’s silly, and the resultant finish is attractive and bombproof, I’ve stuck to Satin.
Plus a few drops of this stuff and you have a World of colour open to you, also being from Germany it may be easier to obtain.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Can you get on and test it Steve, if it’s ok I will buy a can.

Cheeky beggar!
S

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ian, there used to be a company in Long Eaton that stocked General Finishes. I know they have a good reputation. I've not seen it here in France.
I'll have a hunt for that coloring (sic) kit.
S

 

[Lurker]

Cheeky beggar!
S

Yeh sorry! I didn’t mean it quite like that.

 

[PAC1]

Ian, there used to be a company in Long Eaton that stocked General Finishes. I know they have a good reputation. I've not seen it here in France.
I'll have a hunt for that coloring (sic) kit.
S

Ooh. Who is that Steve? I currently get my supplies from Edinburgh. A supplier within easy travel distance would be great.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ooh. Who is that Steve? I currently get my supplies from Edinburgh. A supplier within easy travel distance would be great.

I wish I could remember, Peter. It was on an industrial estate, that's all I can recall. But Long Eaton is not a big place, is it? If I find it I shall let you know. Bear in mind we are going back many a year.
S

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ian, I can't find the Mixol range in France (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it doesn't appear on Amazon.fr)
Amazon.de does list it, but it appears they don't ship to France.

My most promising find is eBay UK, and I have friends coming over in a few weeks. Am I right in thinking that Umber would be a good bet for staining oak? I could buy the whole range, it's not exorbitantly expensive, but I know that 95% of them would never be used.
S

 

[HdV]

Is there a specific reason you are not sure of using Osmo in this case?

My standard finishing process is to use shellac to close the pores and then wipe on 2 layers of Osmo (in my case mostly Osmo Farbig). The results are great, including on oak. The shellac should form a nice barrier between the wood you don't fully trust and the Osmo. Maybe try it on an off-cut?

I am by no stretch of the mind an expert when it comes to finishing, but over the years I have grown into a procedure that is fool-proof to even my fumbling around. It includes polishing with sheep skin as one of the last steps to get the very smooth satin sheen surfaces that I prefer (but others might not). I never had any trouble with it on oak. Not even on some old timbers that came out of a demolished German property. That wood wasn't in the best condition and it was rock hard. But in the end the side table I made for friends came out quite well and the finish was just shellac and Osmo. Again, maybe you could just test it out on an off-cut?