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Moving house - spindle moulder dilemma

Guineafowl21

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One for @Trevanion or other spindle moulder types.

I’ll be moving to house to one with a bigger workshop soon - actually, a former stable yard, so may be asking opinions about workshop layout - but it hasn’t got three phase.

I like my big Cooksley spindle moulder, but there are a few problems:
1. The massive 5hp Dahlander (two speed) motor will be tricky to repower, but not impossible.
2. The Steff power feed will need similar fiddling, again, possible.
3. I don’t get on as well with the two-piece fence, as with the more modern horseshoe type.
4. No sliding table, but with more space I could get a cheap tenoner. I’m yet to find a spindle with a better table than the cheapie Charnwood I had.
5. It’s bloody ‘eavy.
6. It’s worth almost nothing.

I’m leaning towards bringing it with me (unless someone here wants it!), repowering and maybe looking for a one-piece fence to drop onto it. Thoughts?

IMG_0960.jpeg
 
Get a Transwave rotary converter to get you three-phase. But Bob (9fingers) is really the man for motors.

But take it with you. if you have a larger workshop and have the space then you could always get a second one and leave one or other set up for, say, making windows.
 
Rotary converter will need good stout single phase supply to start up a big spindle reliably.
If there is not sufficient current for a converter then an inverter will allow a much more gentle start up with the additional benefit of changing speed without fiddling with belts.
 
Thanks. With both motors being pole switchers, they’re 415V only (series delta/parallel star).

For a 240V VFD, they’d need converting to parallel delta. Not too bad to do, just never done it before.

I’ve also got a Wadkin BRA radial arm saw with DC brake, which would be nice to keep on a climb-cutting machine.
Also an RB planer, 2hp. I don’t mind fitting a beefy supply, so maybe a rotary is the answer.
 
For multiple machines a rotary converter would be my choice and also covers you for future acquisitions. Aim for something rated at about 30% bigger than the highest power load that you envisage.
They do come on the market as used and transwave offer a refurb of the capacitors if you dont want to d-i-y.
 
I'd also be leaning on the "keep it" side, mainly because quality like that is getting harder and harder to find and you will have to spend a fair bit more to find something of a similar quality, particularly in a single-phase machine.

In regards to a sliding table, occasionally you will find on eBay sliding tables for Wadkin and similar spindle moulders that bolt to the dovetail slots in the bed, though they tend to fetch a keen price. It wouldn't be overly difficult to make your own using linear guide rails and a bit of ingenuity.

1721416632991.jpeg

You will be lucky to find a horseshoe fence going spare, though they do come up once in a blue moon, usually Sedgwick or Kity ones. If you could find a later Wadkin EQ one that would be excellent I would've thought so long as the bolts line up with the slots in the table.
 
Never tried a horseshoe fence, but the two piece fence on my Sedgwick is a doddle to use and set up,what is it about yours that gives you pain?
Ian

The Sedgwicks are a horseshoe design, each fence plate is attached to a central "horseshoe" shaped casting and moves with it even if you offset the fence plates themselves. With the older machines like the Cooksley, each fence plate is attached to its own bracket casting and has to be set up independently from the other which can be a pain. With the horseshoe casting if you need to go back a few millimeters you just slacken one side and give it a tap backward on that side and the whole fence pivots around, with the older style you have to loosen off both sides and push them back the same amount, as well as keeping them in-plane to each other if you want it to cut straight.
 
That is a big lump to have in a workshop.

Just seen this on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14588679...SH65XE&hash=item21f787da7b:g:53IAAOSwEUZmgF55



Spindle.jpg

It might be worth watching as it has delivery and if it sells for the right money the sliding table would be handy also get you up and running without having to convert the one you have now. I don't know the Hp rating on these but you need at least 2Hp for rebates, light mouldings etc.

An original sliding table that uses the dovetail slots can cost £500 alone so it might even be worth considering a second moulder if you have the space. If you are making windows a second moulder is very handy to have.

EDIT: TREVANION HAS NOTICED THE SLIDING TABLE HAS BEEN WELDED!
 
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It might be worth watching as it has delivery and if it sells for the right money the sliding table would be handy also get you up and running without having to convert the one you have now. I don't know the Hp rating on these but you need at least 2Hp for rebates, light mouldings etc.

The T30s are 3hp and single-speed at 6000rpm if I recall, good little machine in its class. It looks like someone has dropped that sliding table at some point as one of the corners is missing on that particular example.

If swapping machines, I'd keep an eye out for a 3HP Sedgwick SM3 or GW, or preferably an SM4 which has a 4HP motor, not uncommon to see fitted with sliding tables but you'll likely need to fork out around £1000 for a single-phase one.
 
It looks like the advice is to have TWO spindle moulders! Makes sense as I’ll have more space.

The two-piece fence thing is exactly as Trevanion points out - on previous machines I got used to loosening one side and bumping the depth of cut, with the machine running. Can’t do that with a two-piece.

The bolt-on sliding table would be an option, but would necessitate a height adjustment when switching between scribe and profile for cabinet doors. The set I have is designed to retain the height/depth settings, giving a perfect match. Not the end of the world.

I like the look of the Startrite/Robland T30 ^^^, also the Sedgewicks. I’ll move the machine, and keep an eye out for a second.
 
Good thread this. I wanted a spindle and Dan gave me lots of good pointers. I even bought one but eventually got cold feet and resold it as I found it a bit scary and getting the tooling was challenging for me, which I had not properly understood. Still learning about them and what is good / less good / should be avoided.
 
Another plus point of the Cooksley - I had the spindle machined down from 1.25” to 30mm, so it’ll take modern tooling and, with top hats, the older stuff. It was done by Doubleboost on YT. I can find the video if anyone’s interested.

Good thread this. I wanted a spindle and Dan gave me lots of good pointers. I even bought one but eventually got cold feet and resold it as I found it a bit scary and getting the tooling was challenging for me, which I had not properly understood. Still learning about them and what is good / less good / should be avoided.
The two-piece fence isn’t that bad, really. If, say, I’m copying a picture rail moulding drawn on the end grain, I set up the height of cut by eye as with any other machine. Then, set the depth deliberately shallow on the infeed fence. Start up, test cut just shy of the outfeed, keep bumping the infeed back and recutting*. Stop the machine, use a straightedge to set the outfeed in line**.

*Being careful not to bump the fence itself into the cutter.

**If swiping away the whole surface, you have to use the moulding itself to set the outfeed. With a rebate, it’s a bit of a nuisance as the straightedge has to be held above the cutterblock, which sticks out beyond the fences.
 
A really nice machine that I wouldn't mind having would be the SCM T100. Probably one of the most robust "compact" spindle moulders out there with exception of the Dominion "Handy" benchtop spindle moulders which are ridiculously heavy-duty for their size which is comparable to a small router table.

The T100 quite often has a sliding table fitted at the rear of the machine, a bit of a pain if you want it right up against the wall though. You sometimes see them come up as single-phase but not as often as the three-phase machines, much like most industrial equipment.

https://www.scosarg.com/media/leaflets/SCM/SCM T100 spindle moulder.pdf

For fun, here's the Dominion "Handy" Spindle Moulder that belongs to my good friend Mark Furnman:

tJ9kDvq.png
 
T100 looks nice. I slightly regret selling that solid T110 ‘L’invincibile’ that I had.
 
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I have the Sedgwick SM3 and it has a horseshoe fence ( thank you for the enlightenment! ) unfortunately it didn’t have a sliding tenon thing. So I drilled and tapped a couple of 10mm holes in the front skirt and using ball bearing drawer runners I knocked one up out of ply, it worked really well, almost to my own amazement!
 
I have the Sedgwick SM3 and it has a horseshoe fence ( thank you for the enlightenment! ) unfortunately it didn’t have a sliding tenon thing. So I drilled and tapped a couple of 10mm holes in the front skirt and using ball bearing drawer runners I knocked one up out of ply, it worked really well, almost to my own amazement!
Yes, I made a tenoning/scribing jig for mine which runs against the fences. Not too easy to set up/adjust. It’s much better to do as you have done, and use the table as a reference. Mine has a machined face on the front which I might use in a future jig.
 
That li'l Dominion spindle is just too cute, I'd love to see more.
Looks kinda like something which one could possibly make for themselves,
if they had some bits and bobs, but no funds to buy a 500 quid Wadkin of some sort down the road. 🙃

test run with the huanyang.jpg
 
That li'l Dominion spindle is just too cute, I'd love to see more.
Looks kinda like something which one could possibly make for themselves,
if they had some bits and bobs, but no funds to buy a 500 quid Wadkin of some sort down the road. 🙃

View attachment 27667
Looks like you’ve got the makings there Tom!
 
Looks like you’ve got the makings there Tom!
Well I might have half of it, it's part of an old tablesaw where there should really be a spindle
but just joking really, as there seems to be little value of these machines.
(one on the other place was/is going for free in Essex, with tooling, which someone just offered cash for, )
.
I know nothing of these machines to attempt such, though intrigued by that little Dominion,
Too many questions I've got, that it would de-rail the thread completely. (apologies @ guineafowl21)
All the best
Tom
 
Update: the spindle moulder has been moved. Very heavy it was too.

Here is the new wood shop. Used to be stables, as you can see, but I’ve knocked through:
IMG_0505.jpeg

And from the opposite corner. I’ve tried to arrange the machines sensibly, with regard to workflow and passing longish (<=3m) pieces of timber:
IMG_0506.jpeg
 
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3 phase machines are powered by this Boost Energy (no longer trading) rotary converter. No details on the rating plate, but the idler motor is 10hp so I assume that’s the max output. It starts up the 4hp Cooksley spindle moulder ok, but seems to prefer it if I start in low-speed delta, then switch to high. Lights dim less that way.

IMG_1244.jpeg

The little machine shop is in another part.
IMG_0507.jpeg

At some point, I’d like to insulate. The cladding is painted shiplap, then 95mm studs, then partial OSB. If I fill in the missing OSB, then put either 50 or 75mm insulation of some sort right behind it, would I need to add outside vents top and bottom, between each pair of studs?
 
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I don’t think you need to but I’m not an expert, the whole thing is indoors?
Very nice space you have acquired there, suppose you will be asking about removing the uprights from that dividing wall?
Yes - the stables are in a U shape, and that stud wall is under where the roof changes direction. Doesn’t seem to carry much weight*, so I was thinking stout 4x4 uprights and a 6x2 lintel.

* when dismantling the wall, I actually moved the two uprights to directly under the truss edges. They were originally offset by about 6”, so I assume the loadbearing is not too critical there.
 
I could maybe help with a fence as i have a spindle that doesnt work and I've not used in years but it does have a horseshoe fence, I'll get details when I'm back tomorrow and post them. I am working near turriff Mon - Friday and if it fits could meet you somewhere one evening if youd like.
 
I could maybe help with a fence as i have a spindle that doesnt work and I've not used in years but it does have a horseshoe fence, I'll get details when I'm back tomorrow and post them. I am working near turriff Mon - Friday and if it fits could meet you somewhere one evening if youd like.
Yes, certainly interested. If you could post the make/model of the machine and some rough dimensions, that would be handy.
 
Sorry this took so long, weekend just disapeared, spindle is a 3ph white moulder (one of the phases has dropped but its not something that I am using now or have been from the past few years). There is a Holz-Her power feed on it which single phase. The horseshoe fence fits into dovetailed slots which are at 488mm centres. This is all free to anyone who has any use for it. 1000021098.jpg1000021100.jpg
1000021099.jpg
 
Damn. The 5/8” dovetail slots on mine are 520mm centres, so I don’t think it’ll fit, unless someone has any bright ideas.

Part of me thinks it would be a shame to break that up. Tidied up and re-powered, perhaps with a 3hp 1ph motor to go with the 1ph power feed, it would make a good, solid machine.
 
Damn. The 5/8” dovetail slots on mine are 520mm centres, so I don’t think it’ll fit, unless someone has any bright ideas.

Part of me thinks it would be a shame to break that up. Tidied up and re-powered, perhaps with a 3hp 1ph motor to go with the 1ph power feed, it would make a good, solid machine.
it always was a good machine just that i have no use for it now. but if you want it you're more than welcome and I'm only 3 1/2 hours from Inverness.
 
I’d probably be looking at it as a resto project, to sell on.

- Tidy up.
- Fit reasonable 1 ph motor (I have a 2hp sitting about) and starter box.
- Take spindle down to 30mm
- Make a simple spindle guard/chip collection box.

@Trevanion how strong is the market for this sort of thing now?
 
@Trevanion how strong is the market for this sort of thing now?

Not very!

Everyone I talk to is saying that machinery isn't shifting like it was, there's been a lot of liquidation auctions as well and the older stuff has barely been picking up scrap value. Of course, it always has a value but nowhere near what they were fetching three years ago, the most valuable part of it would be the powerfeeder.

I know someone outside of Edinburgh who has a collection of White of Paisley machines, very nice machines with a lot of innovative design.
 
2hp is way too small for a spindle molder. Anything below 3kw (4hp) generally burns out when using a power feeder.

Around here it would be easy to find use for that spindle moulder but shipping costs and custom fees would destroy the deal. Sadly.

I wonder if it would be possible to add a cross bar on that Cooksley two piece fence. For instance by bolting it on top of a horseshoe cut from 20mm hot rolled plate. Or by nickel welding in a crosspiece. I need pictures to be able to figure it out.
 
...... Anything below 3kw (4hp) generally burns out when using a power feeder.
...
I don't agree with that. Pushing by hand is just as powerful as using a pwer feeder. 2HP is fine for use with a feeder IMO. I've used all powers of spindle moulders in my time and none have burnt out.
 
^^ yes, fine. Better going to an enthusiast.

If he doesn’t want it, I’ll take it if you’re prepared to stick it on a pallet for a courier. My trailer’s out of action. I’ll pay something towards the machine/time/hassle, say £100.
 
3 phase machines are powered by this Boost Energy (no longer trading) rotary converter. No details on the rating plate, but the idler motor is 10hp so I assume that’s the max output. It starts up the 4hp Cooksley spindle moulder ok, but seems to prefer it if I start in low-speed delta, then switch to high. Lights dim less that way.

View attachment 29450

The little machine shop is in another part.
View attachment 29451

At some point, I’d like to insulate. The cladding is painted shiplap, then 95mm studs, then partial OSB. If I fill in the missing OSB, then put either 50 or 75mm insulation of some sort right behind it, would I need to add outside vents top and bottom, between each pair of studs?
I'm having End Mill envy!
 
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