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New brass bits for some old handles

AndyT

Old Oak
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Name
Andy
I've been pottering in the workshop again.

A few weeks ago I was very pleased when a good friend gave me an envelope with some bits and pieces in. They came from a nice old desk they have, which is sadly short of a few vital parts that hold the handles onto the drawers.

These are originals. I needed to make a matching threaded stud and another domed washer to go behind it, plus some nuts to fit whatever thread is on the existing studs.


IMG_0041.JPG


IMG_0042.JPG

I reckon I know how to do the stud but the domed back washer is a new one for me. Coincidentally, following @GaryR's thread about making gutter caps for his Japanese style shed, I've been reading up a bit about shaping metal and have watched a few videos, so it's a nice chance to turn theory into practice.

I have some suitable materials - a strip of unknown thin brass and a bit off an old ball valve that looked like it might come in handy one day:

IMG_0046.JPG

I marked out a circle of about the right size and cut it out.

IMG_0049.JPG


Some of you might be thinking that's a really manky bit of dovetailing, and I agree. In my defence, it's a practice joint I made when I was getting into proper woodworking, some 40 years ago probably. One day maybe I'll make something prettier, but it works ok for this. :)

The resulting disc needed to be properly round. I know I have a lathe for making things round, but working on a tiny thing like this probably needs some special arbor or something, so I kept things simple. I screwed the disc onto the edge of an offcut of wood, so it came a little bit above the edge. Then I filed across, using the wood as a guide, twisting the disc round and round.

IMG_0053.JPG

Then I used the same offcut, since it was already in place in front of me, and filed a bit of a shallow groove into the end grain. Gently tapping with different sizes of ball pein hammer made it curve quite easily into a little dome.

IMG_0055.JPG

IMG_0057.JPG

Getting there:

IMG_0058.JPG


You'll have noticed that the original washer has a sort of dimple on the front where the stud sits. This was my next little challenge. I thought I needed something to go under what I had made and support it while I punched the centre down with a round-ended tool. I was going to start turning a one-off backing piece on the wood lathe but I found this file handle instead. The original part sat on it very neatly, so thought I would take the easy option.

IMG_0060.JPG

I knew that I needed to anneal the brass after the hammering I had already done. I did this on a spare tile, lying in our old sink as a nice non-combustible place, with a basic plumber's blowlamp.

IMG_0066.JPG

I ground the end of a bit of steel into a half round of about the right size, clamped it all up in the vice and taped the work in place in case of bruised fingers.

IMG_0068.JPG

That didn't really work, so I tried just holding it over a convenient hole in another offcut.

It certainly responded - all my previous shaping disappeared into flatness in one go! Here it is, next to the bulbous original.

IMG_0069.JPG

Not so good! :mad:

I also noticed that my disc was clearly bigger than it needed to be, so I put it back on the filing guide and reduced it by about a millimetre all round.

Re-hammering the domed shape didn't take too long second time round and I was soon at this stage


IMG_0075.JPG


I know that the square holes are different sizes. I think the original has opened up beyond what is needed, so my plan is to make the new stud fit the old hole, with some adjustment later on. (The stud will hide those rough lines from the end of the punch.)

The colour wasn't right, but once again this was easily changed with some Priory Polishes Patinating Fluid. It's a satisfyingly immediate transformation.

IMG_0076.JPG

Stay tuned for part 2, The Stud. Will Joan Collins put in an appearance?*







*No.

What did you expect?! ;)
 
My guess would be the originals were done on a fly press with top and bottom tooling. It's very difficult to get those really crisp edges when hammering and manipulating metal by hand, it tends to stretch and move in places you don't want it to.
 
I am in awe.
S
Steve, it's nice of you to say that, but really the point of posting this is to encourage people by sharing what can be done, with basic tools and very little metalworking experience.
 
Well I appreciate you trying to educate me Andy, they tried to teach me all sorts of useless stuff at school which never went in and I don’t think I’ve ever missed. But the metalwork I would have enjoyed learning wasn’t on offer.
 
I've been pottering in the workshop again.

A few weeks ago I was very pleased when a good friend gave me an envelope with some bits and pieces in. They came from a nice old desk they have, which is sadly short of a few vital parts that hold the handles onto the drawers.

These are originals. I needed to make a matching threaded stud and another domed washer to go behind it, plus some nuts to fit whatever thread is on the existing studs.


View attachment 26611


View attachment 26612

I reckon I know how to do the stud but the domed back washer is a new one for me. Coincidentally, following @GaryR's thread about making gutter caps for his Japanese style shed, I've been reading up a bit about shaping metal and have watched a few videos, so it's a nice chance to turn theory into practice.

I have some suitable materials - a strip of unknown thin brass and a bit off an old ball valve that looked like it might come in handy one day:

View attachment 26613

I marked out a circle of about the right size and cut it out.

View attachment 26614


Some of you might be thinking that's a really manky bit of dovetailing, and I agree. In my defence, it's a practice joint I made when I was getting into proper woodworking, some 40 years ago probably. One day maybe I'll make something prettier, but it works ok for this. :)

The resulting disc needed to be properly round. I know I have a lathe for making things round, but working on a tiny thing like this probably needs some special arbor or something, so I kept things simple. I screwed the disc onto the edge of an offcut of wood, so it came a little bit above the edge. Then I filed across, using the wood as a guide, twisting the disc round and round.

View attachment 26625

Then I used the same offcut, since it was already in place in front of me, and filed a bit of a shallow groove into the end grain. Gently tapping with different sizes of ball pein hammer made it curve quite easily into a little dome.

View attachment 26626

View attachment 26628

Getting there:

View attachment 26627


You'll have noticed that the original washer has a sort of dimple on the front where the stud sits. This was my next little challenge. I thought I needed something to go under what I had made and support it while I punched the centre down with a round-ended tool. I was going to start turning a one-off backing piece on the wood lathe but I found this file handle instead. The original part sat on it very neatly, so thought I would take the easy option.

View attachment 26629

I knew that I needed to anneal the brass after the hammering I had already done. I did this on a spare tile, lying in our old sink as a nice non-combustible place, with a basic plumber's blowlamp.

View attachment 26630

I ground the end of a bit of steel into a half round of about the right size, clamped it all up in the vice and taped the work in place in case of bruised fingers.

View attachment 26631

That didn't really work, so I tried just holding it over a convenient hole in another offcut.

It certainly responded - all my previous shaping disappeared into flatness in one go! Here it is, next to the bulbous original.

View attachment 26632

Not so good! :mad:

I also noticed that my disc was clearly bigger than it needed to be, so I put it back on the filing guide and reduced it by about a millimetre all round.

Re-hammering the domed shape didn't take too long second time round and I was soon at this stage


View attachment 26633


I know that the square holes are different sizes. I think the original has opened up beyond what is needed, so my plan is to make the new stud fit the old hole, with some adjustment later on. (The stud will hide those rough lines from the end of the punch.)

The colour wasn't right, but once again this was easily changed with some Priory Polishes Patinating Fluid. It's a satisfyingly immediate transformation.

View attachment 26634

Stay tuned for part 2, The Stud. Will Joan Collins put in an appearance?*







*No.

What did you expect?! ;)
My !!!!, you are very meticulous, It's enjoyable following this.
 
Well I appreciate you trying to educate me Andy, they tried to teach me all sorts of useless stuff at school which never went in and I don’t think I’ve ever missed. But the metalwork I would have enjoyed learning wasn’t on offer.
Ian, at high school my favourite class was machine shop. We also had automotive, electrical and wood working classes. No social stigmas attached to this as the school was a mix of towney's and farmers. And a lot of pregnant girls.
 
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A LOT of pregnant girls? Crikey! The rest of it sounds brill though. But you have stirred a memory of the woodwork teacher occasionally teaching us a bit about how cars worked, suspension carbs and timing I remember, brilliant teacher. Prior to training as a teacher he made shop fittings, Banks etc and his thumbs were permanently bent back from using a scraper.
 
I owe a lot to my woodwork and metalwork teachers, 50+ years ago. It was only for three school years, split between the two subjects, then further split alternate weeks between practical sessions and theory/technical drawing. So only about 90 weeks x 90 minutes divided by 4. About 10 hours of practical tuition per subject per year. But that covered the basics - setting out, planing a face edge and side, mortise and tenon, halvings, housings. Tool handling. A first go on the lathe. Metalwork included sawing, filing, drilling. Tapping threads. Rivetting. A tiny bit of turning and a go on the forge.
I salute anyone who can take charge of 30 boys all equipped with sharp tools and get anything across!
 
I’m left wondering what could have been had I not gone to a grammar school 🤔
Good on you Andy for making something like that.
 
... But that covered the basics - setting out, planing a face edge and side, mortise and tenon, halvings, housings. Tool handling. A first go on the lathe. Metalwork included sawing, filing, drilling. Tapping threads. Rivetting. A tiny bit of turning and a go on the forge.
I salute anyone who can take charge of 30 boys all equipped with sharp tools and get anything across!
Pretty much everything I taught in both wood and metalwork shops. Add to that forging, braze welding and aluminium casting and it's not far off what we used to teach Yr10 and 11 students, but 20 was the stipulated amount of 'yoof' we had in the workshops at any one time - Rob
 
To make the stud, I cut the lump off the end of the ball valve brass and put it into the chuck of my lathe. I've shown this lathe before, but for the benefit of any new readers, it's a treadle-powered model 4½ by Barnes of Rockford, Illinois. It's probably about a century old, but could be older.
It has no calibrations, no digital display, no concession to user convenience, but it runs sweetly and it's a real pleasure to use.

This poorly focused picture shows an early stage, where I was defining the ball end and flange, before turning the stem to size.

IMG_0083.JPG

This shows a later stage, where I have filed the square part behind the flange.

IMG_0085.JPG

I did this in the lathe, freehand, locking up the rotation with the back gears and then shifting round 90 degrees each time. It's not precision engineering, but that's really not what I was aiming at. I wanted to match the old hand finished castings of the original, which were only required to fit where they touched ;) .

I did allow one concession to modernity though. The original thread was an odd size; it had 32 threads per inch but was not quite 5/32" of an inch, which would be a standard Whitworth size. That Whitworth size was used on Meccano, and instead of trying to make nuts to replace the missing ones, I found some brass Meccano nuts and gave them a gentle sideways tap with a hammer. Ok, the holes are not very round, but they fit quite snugly.

But for the one new stud, I adopted an M4 thread, as I have taps and dies in that size, and it's very close to the original. (Incidentally, I noticed just in time that I have M4 taps in 0.7mm pitch and also in 0.75mm. The ordinary M4 fasteners I have are all 0.7mm pitch, so I used that, but it's odd that the less common size is coarser, not finer. Still, they do say that the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.)

Here's the thread cutting

IMG_0086.JPG

and the nearly finished item, ready to come off the lathe.

IMG_0087.JPG

There was no need to mess about with form tools; the shaping was all done with files and finished off later in the vice.

The next challenge was drilling an accurate transverse hole. Proper engineers will use clever jigs for this; I just clamped it up with what was ready to hand and eyeballed it on either side.

IMG_0089.JPG

But I did use some mechanical help to get the hole straight, from this nice little model by Millers Falls.


IMG_0090.JPG
And yes, I know the background to the photo is a bit "busy", but that's the corner where the bandsaw and some of the drills live, and it's not actually untidy, just full.

I made a small hole from each side, then drilled through to make sure. After a bit more filing in the vice, it looked like this


IMG_0095.JPG

and then like this

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The new stud is on the left, fitted in the old washer. The new washer is on the right, with the old stud.
I darkened down the shiny finish on the new stud a bit, until it looked like this:

IMG_0099.JPG

which I think is close enough to the other side, considering that the room it will go in isn't brightly lit.

IMG_0100.JPG

I won't be able to fit these until August probably, but will try and get some pics of the finished desk then.

All in all, this has been the sort of job I really enjoy. Low risk, low precision, just keep filing until it looks ok.
I admit that having a lathe does make this sort of thing more immediately possible, but you can do a lot with an electric drill and files if you need to.

Have a go!
 
I’m left wondering what could have been had I not gone to a grammar school 🤔
Good on you Andy for making something like that.
It was a grammar school! That's why I only got three years in the workshops before O-levels kicked in :mad:
Pretty much everything I taught in both wood and metalwork shops. Add to that forging, braze welding and aluminium casting and it's not far off what we used to teach Yr10 and 11 students, but 20 was the stipulated amount of 'yoof' we had in the workshops at any one time - Rob
Actually, thinking back, it's possible that the practice/theory split meant that each week the class was split into two. So only about 14 or 15 boys with a set of tools each at any time and the others had to make do with sharpened pencils. Still plenty of scope for blood to flow!
 
It was a grammar school! That's why I only got three years in the workshops before O-levels kicked in :mad:
Mine was as well. I got a year of woodwork with one 60 minutes session a week before being forced to ditch it for latin which I hated, have no use for and can't remember a word. The school had no metalworking facilities.
I was jealous of my brothers who attended local comprehensive and had both.
 
Yep, that's the video that made me want one. It clearly shows what fun they can be.
Then Tools'n'Tat Andy told me about one for sale near me, collection only. Could I have resisted?

I don't know, I'm just glad I didn't!
If only I had the space.....
 
Lovely little project @AndyT and really nice to see how you've gone about it.

The next challenge was drilling an accurate transverse hole. Proper engineers will use clever jigs for this; I just clamped it up with what was ready to hand and eyeballed it on either side.

More often than not, "proper engineers" will use something as simple as a 150 mm steel rule for that. If you've got a round object and you want to drill through the centre, place a steel rule on top of the cylinder and lower the drill bit until it "pinches" the steel rule in place. Then lower your head until you're at eye level with the rule and you'll easily be able to see whether the rule is horizontal or tilted over. If it's horizontal, then the drill bit will be lined up with the centre of the cylinder and you'll drill straight through the middle (once you've removed the rule, obviously ;) ).
 
Just to finish this one off, here's a photo of the desk in question, featuring the new post and backplate.
signal-2024-08-15-23-12-22-785.jpg
 
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