Now for the Chairs

[PAC1]

Last year I finished my Dining Table which I had started 25-30 years ago. After insulating my workshop floor and a fe other jobs, I can turn to the chairs. So I went up to the loft above my bench and brought the parts down. 25 years of dust is quite a lot.
I hope to make a start soon
So here is where I got to all that time ago.

 

[duke]

Wow, your chair legs look very stable that is no twists cracks etc.
What wood are the legs made from?
Same as your table, Black Walnut?

 

[AJB Temple]

Well, I am super impressed. That is quite a challenge to make a set of chairs as well - it's a lot of work.

 

[PAC1]

Yes Black Walnut. The only issue has been some superficial discolouration (yellowing) but as shown in the last photo a few shavings from the spokeshave deals with that.
Adrian, I think that is really why it has been 25 years. It was all too easy to put something else in front so I did. But now I am beginning to trade off making time v years left to enjoy the table!
What you see is all work that was done along time ago. But I am ready to get on with finishing them and will start soon.

 

[Cabinetman]

Survived 25 years quite well, just wondering if the design has as well,
I know what I liked a quarter of a Century ago is quite a bit different to what I like now. But I suppose the design’s a bit timeless really.
Ian

 

[PAC1]

Survived 25 years quite well, just wondering if the design has as well,
I know what I liked a quarter of a Century ago is quite a bit different to what I like now. But I suppose the design’s a bit timeless really.
Ian

The design remains the same. In 1997 we went on a road trip to New England. We accidentally found Historic Deerfield and I found New England versions of Chippendale. It has been a major influence ever since. I was getting influence from Phil Lowes designs and still intend to continue as originally planned except I now have some of Phil Lowe's actual chippendale style drawings so have adapted my designs a little.
I know not everyone wants chippendale style these days but I like the style and wanted to test my skills.

 

[AndyP]

Are you sure those legs are well seasoned.

 

[PAC1]

Are you sure those legs are well seasoned.

Well you cannot be too careful. It is best to wait to be sure.

 

[AndyT]

I don't go much for the look of the style of furniture, but I do really like the skill and patience needed to make it, especially for a large set. Also, I'm rather envious - it looks a lot of fun to do.

 

[PAC1]

Here is my full size drawing ready to make the chairs

 

[PAC1]

Also here is a photo of what I am aiming for

 

[AndyP]

That looks challenging.

 

[NickM]

I'll be following with interest as I need to make some chairs in the fairly near future!

 

[Alasdair]

Wow really nice, good luck with teh venture they will be stunning when finished.

As a side note my great grandfather was a cabinet maker and made furniture to grace none other than the Titanic my mum has a set of chairs that were destined for the ship but like others from the factory I'm sure never made to the docks, they would throw the pieces over the fence, pick them up later and assemble in their sheds. He got my great uncle to upholster them with the same fabric. unfortunatelly these are not first class dining chairs possibly 2nd class as the are still Queen Anne style in mahogany but with plainer relief.

 

[meccarroll]

This should be interesting. Nice looking Chair.

 

[PAC1]

I have been very busy but keep finding some time to make the patterns and model chair. Here are some photos for you:

 

[PAC1]

The angles of the splat can be very difficult to find. I was a bit out at the first try:

 

[PAC1]

I think I am now at the point I can start
I think I need to make some space to place all the tools I need for each step and some where for 6 chairs in manufacture.

 

[PAC1]

I am not going to refine the model further. I know what is needed to improve the fit and finish but the wood I used for the model is not good quality and will not take refining well. Also the splat will need individual sizing so i will not gain anything by further refining the model.
One of the main things I wanted to see was the shape of the crest rail.
By the way it is comfortable to sit on.

 

[PAC1]

So having procrastinated a bit more, built a new tool chest (delay tactic) enjoyed Christmas and had a holiday I have ran out of excuses.
The first thing to do was to find out what I did 27 years ago. I have the basic shape of the legs and mortised the legs to receive the rails. What angle did I mortise.

Unfortunately the rear legs are different. The 27 years younger PAC1 was not as accurate or had a different idea for the rails.

Now what to do. Time to think. However the rear legs are not being adjusted

 

[PAC1]

When in doubt draw it out!

The difference is very small on the front tenon. I just need to remember to cut the shoulders to the angle from the rear and the length of the tenon from the front tenon angle

 

[PAC1]

I did not have a Mortiser when I started the chairs so routed them. All the mortises have round end. They need squaring up.

 

[NickM]

Great to see more chairs being made. I'm hoping to learn something!

I've been doing full size drawings of mine over the past few days. It's the only way I think.

 

[NickM]

Is this any help for getting the angle of the back splat right?

 

[PAC1]

Nick, that is how to do it. I was also thinking about making the shoe over sized and then use the shoe for final fitting as I can plane it down one shaving at a time. I would make the splat to a nominal shoe. Make and carve the splat to the crest rail and then swap to the actual shoe and make a tight fitting shoe and splat then glue up. I might be over thinking it but it seemed an obvious use of the shoe.

 

[PAC1]

I am currently struggling with extending the mortises in the back legs. They are angled in two directions and need to be very precise. The curve of the leg means it will not fit on my morticer, even though the table is very short. Cutting them by hand would be a nightmare and so I am making a jig.

 

[PAC1]

I managed to get some workshop time today. I finished squaring up round mortices.

 

[PAC1]

I also returned to shaping the front legs. Have I mentioned I like rasps. I spent a happy couple of hours shaping the knee and calf of the front legs. I have three left to do and then it will be onto carving ball and clawfeet.

 

[Mike G]

Fantastic Peter. You've a tremendous lot of work to do, and I look forward to seeing things progress. This isn't my style, but I do particularly like ball and claw feet, for the carving.

 

[duke]

I have yet to make a chair, so your WIP and others I am watching closely. Fascinating.

 

[AJB Temple]

Impressive work Peter. Very good WIP thread.

 

[Cabinetman]

Lots of hard work going on, made me think if I was doing those I’d want my Bobbin sander.
Son Ben persuaded me to get one and it’s invaluable for some jobs.

 

[meccarroll]

I have only ever made one chair and found the angles of the joints quite challenging but also interesting to do. It's not a task you can take on lightly. When I made my chair I very much underestimated skill needed to complete the task but it is very satifying once completed. Walnut is such a nice wood too. Keep at it, and well done for reviving your passion to finish your chairs. Mark

 

[johnward]

Very good work Peter. Excellent photos. I agree with your comment on full size drawings. When I made my table and four chairs I found it absolutely necessary to draw the front to back taper of the side rails with their angled mortice and tenon joints with the legs. The good fit was very satisfying and worth the time consuming effort.

 

[PAC1]

Lots of hard work going on, made me think if I was doing those I’d want my Bobbin sander.
Son Ben persuaded me to get one and it’s invaluable for some jobs.

There are a couple of small jobs for a bobbin sander but most of the shaping is by the rasp and spokeshave. Yesterday I shaped six legs in two hours, so 20 minutes per leg. The only noise was the rasp cutting through wood and my raised breathing. I have three to do so another hours exercise. Rasps are incredibly efficient at shaping.
I will then do a little bobbin sanding of the tight curve under the knee. I could do it with rasps but I do not have a fine rasp of the correct diameter. I could either glue sandpaper on a dowel or use the bobbin sander. I will use the bobbin sander.

 

[PAC1]

This morning I have been cutting the tenons for the back rails and front rails. No photos as it was just machine cutting them. They are slightly oversized. Next time I will start fitting them so will do photos of that process.

 

[PAC1]

I managed to fit the mortise and tenons for the front and back rails. It was a very simple process so photos are of the finished fit

 

[PAC1]

Next week I will start the side rails. I cannot make my mind up about the rear joint so thought I would ask. The rail is 70mm deep and I have decided on through m&ts. The mortise is angled so the tenons can have straight grain. At the moment the mortise is only 50mm long and I plan to cut small tapered haunches say 10mm deep. However I keep thinking full 70mm long tenons would be stronger. The danger is that there is not much leg left as the leg is only 44mm by 40mm. The mortises are 12.7mm wide and the back rails and side rails are at the same location. The positioning is such that there is not much left on the outside edge of the leg see photo. What do you think?

 

[Mike G]

My response, Peter, is to ask how many broken chairs you've come across where the leg has broken, and how many with the joint having failed? I've personally never seen a broken leg. So, I would err on the side of the tenon. Also, lengthening the mortice in straight grained wood doesn't take away any strength from the leg, but adds a lot to the tenon. The only time that doesn't hold true, I think, is if someone falls against the side of the chair and puts racking forces through the frame.

I'm not sure I'd go as deep as 10mm with the haunches, though. I'd say 5 or 6mm was more than enough. Their sole structural job is to take the shear forces off the tenon, although they have an aesthetic function as well.

What's a tapered haunch, and why?

 

[PAC1]

A tapered haunch would start at zero at the top of the rail and increase over its length to 10mm or 5mm as you suggest. It reduces the shear the same as a normal haunch but is not visible from the top (not an issue here).
Thanks for the comments.