• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Regular readers will recall me saying no more renovations. Well.........

I've been debating how to get a pump for the h/w in. I also wondered just how well that hot water tank was supported but reluctant to do too much hacking about. But after I'd removed the cupboards underneath it and has a bit of a fiddle around the base of the tank...said fingers coming back a little moist...further investigation showing distinct bowing in the wood bearing the tank, decision made and it's going to be moved which will give me the chance to get a pump in.....unless...

Unless I go for one of those mains pressure hot water tanks
 
RogerS said:
Unless I go for one of those mains pressure hot water tanks
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KISS Roger
Move it to a sensible location, use common or garden pumps and ancillaries that can easily be swapped out without replumbing the lot after this single major upgrade.
 
With your hammer out of action I guess you will use off the shelf carcasses. The room looks square so for a man of your skills and experience fitting out should be straight forward.
 
Life is too short to build carcasses, particularly if you need a kitchen full.
I know others don’t rate them but I’ve used Howdens twice and have no complaints. You need to be buy them on a trade account otherwise they are expensive for what they are.
Come ready assembled too.
 
AndyP said:
With your hammer out of action I guess you will use off the shelf carcasses. The room looks square so for a man of your skills and experience fitting out should be straight forward.
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Lurker beat me to it. Only a masochist would make carcasses.
 
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A new kitchen is on my Tuit list. We both hate the one we have. "handmade, solid oak" means the doors are not varnished on the inside, they don't close properly, they don't line up and they are impossible to keep clean.

The trouble is that the sheds sell MFC carcases, OK, but the backs are only 2 or 3mm thick. A good carcase needs a strong back, especially if it can possibly get wet (such as under a sink).
We have a good local kitchen manufacturer. But all their stuff is high quality solid wood, which I just don't want.
I'm currently toying with the idea of buying shed carcases and replacing the backs with MFC. I last had a new kitchen 10 years ago, and whilst I would never recommend the vendor, my fitter was excellent, and the backs were the same thickness as the sides, 18mm. I'd be happy with 12mm, but I've not found that thickness over here. I'll settle for 16mm.
S
 
RogerS said:
Unless I go for one of those mains pressure hot water tanks
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If you are replacing the hotwater cylinder then having a sealed system is the way to go as you do not need any header tanks and you get decent hotwater pressure. This then means you can put the circulator pump on the boiler return which means it runs cooler and will in theory last longer, for extra energy savings use a Grunfoss Alpha which is a smart pump. These sealed systems using a system boiler are more efficient than a combi as they work more leisurely, tend to be more reliable as they are not complex like a combi and are cheaper to maintain as they use more generic parts and not OEM specific.

I would also address that plumbing that has been burried in a channel in the wall, you don't want any surprises later having fitted a new kitchen.
 
I did not make any carcasses in our very large kitchen. I made a frame fixed to the wall, solid oak legs and struts, and did the whole lot below the work surfaces and 5m island with drawers (Blum - full pull out heavy duty runners). With a domino drawers are quick and easy to make and you can maximise use of every inch of space and depth. No plinths either - everything raised high enough to vacuum beneath and fit under plinth lights.

I've never understood this obsession with carcasses especially from people who have actual woodworking skills.
 
AJB Temple said:
I've never understood this obsession with carcasses especially from people who have actual woodworking skills.
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I wouldn't disagree but usually it's a question of available time and carcases especially if fully assembled enables you to fit a kitchen in a very short time indeed.
If you make your own doors or go for vinyl wrapped then it's a simple matter to modify readymade carcases to fit almost any situation.

Retirement means more time available but that depends what else you have to do and your priority list.
 
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AJB Temple said:
I did not make any carcasses in our very large kitchen.... (Blum - full pull out heavy duty runners). With a domino .....
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AJB Temple said:
I've never understood this obsession with carcasses especially from people who have actual woodworking skills.
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Adrian, you have two major advantages illustrated in your answer - space, and disposable income.

Mine is 9' square and that probably is synonymous with many others. In that context, carcases can be made very adaptable and extremely efficient in use of space.

We raised three children on 1-and-a-wee-bit modest salaries. There was no earthly way to entertain the purchase of Blum heavy duty accessories and a niche tool.

Cloth. Stipend.

Sam
 
Going sealed is the way for me for one very good reason. I can take away the 'ladder' to the loft space as we'll no longer need the cold water tank in us. We've never used the loft space in any of our previous houses for storage.

The electrics on the other hand never cease to amaze/scare/frighten.

20250607_142413.jpg20250607_142513.jpg20250607_151400.jpg
 
Doesn't meet current regs either. Hardly surprising in an old property. Presumably you will bring the electrics up to current code Roger whilst you are at it?
 
There is a valid? argument that you could buy a Domino, heavy duty runners etc. without its costing any more than a commercially fitted kitchen would cost.
 
Phil Pascoe said:
There is a valid? argument that you could buy a Domino, heavy duty runners etc. without its costing any more than a commercially fitted kitchen would cost.
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Definitely if you're having a kitchen company fit Phil but not really if you're buying in units from say Howdens or Magnet etc.. and fitting yourself.
I used to fit kitchens on a regular basis and did the sums though I've been retired for some time. It was still a great excuse for buying new toys however, especially when I could write them off in the business. :)
 
In my case it would have cost a fortune to buy a good quality commercial kitchen at the size we needed. Plus I wanted appliances built in exactly where I wanted them, I wanted a higher than usual work-surface, and we wanted double width drawers throughout. A Domino, if you don't already have one, is a low cost tool because they sell readily afterwards for good money. Making it cost a fraction of what we would have had to pay to get a commercial product - but of course that is counting my labour as free and it did take me a while. We wanted to spend the money on high end appliances - and even then we bought everything as ex-kitchen showroom display units and saved a great deal of money that way. The biggest mistake I made was not putting in commercial extraction. Just about all domestic extraction is useless. I may well have to rethink that aspect and add it. I also intended to put in a small but high power gas wok burner (calor) but even though I bought the unit I didn't fit it in the end. That was a good decision.

It's worth putting a lot of thought into kitchen design if you cook a lot. Most kitchen designers have got no real idea of how chefs operate.

Will be interesting to see how you tackle it Roger.
 
AJB Temple said:
......

Will be interesting to see how you tackle it Roger.
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That's an easy one. The kitchen is nearly as large as the one at our last place. The key layout worked very well there and we've simply replicated it. Magnet Integra Hoxton with Dekton Khalo worksurface and splashback. We saw one at their showroom in Newcastle. At different times to each other. Both of us fell in love' with it which made the decision easy. Bit like this - the unit at the back, not the island unit. It won't be to everyone's taste but we like it and that's all that matters.
20250313_102318.jpg

20250313_101346.jpg
 
AJB Temple said:
In my case it would have cost a fortune to buy a good quality commercial kitchen at the size we needed. Plus I wanted appliances built in exactly where I wanted them, I wanted a higher than usual work-surface, and we wanted double width drawers throughout. A Domino, if you don't already have one, is a low cost tool because they sell readily afterwards for good money. Making it cost a fraction of what we would have had to pay to get a commercial product - but of course that is counting my labour as free and it did take me a while. We wanted to spend the money on high end appliances - and even then we bought everything as ex-kitchen showroom display units and saved a great deal of money that way. The biggest mistake I made was not putting in commercial extraction. Just about all domestic extraction is useless. I may well have to rethink that aspect and add it. I also intended to put in a small but high power gas wok burner (calor) but even though I bought the unit I didn't fit it in the end. That was a good decision.

It's worth putting a lot of thought into kitchen design if you cook a lot. Most kitchen designers have got no real idea of how chefs operate.

Will be interesting to see how you tackle it Roger.
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It makes a lot of sense Adrian but your case is a rather unique one and certainly wouldn't work so easily in a "normal" property. In most cases the kitchen has to be completed very quickly as it's a key area if the family are occupying the property at the time of fitting.
 
Lons said:
It makes a lot of sense Adrian but your case is a rather unique one and certainly wouldn't work so easily in a "normal" property. In most cases the kitchen has to be completed very quickly as it's a key area if the family are occupying the property at the time of fitting.
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Defanintootly.
 
AJB Temple said:
I've never understood this obsession with carcasses especially from people who have actual woodworking skills.
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I always thought that they went down the carcass route because they can be easily manufactured in standard sizes on a production line and make a kitchen fitout much faster.

RogerS said:
The electrics on the other hand never cease to amaze/scare/frighten.
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Are you talking the electrical installation or just the wiring for the heating / HW system ? Neither are that complicated but use a proper electrician and not a domestic installer !
 
Lons said:
It makes a lot of sense Adrian but your case is a rather unique one and certainly wouldn't work so easily in a "normal" property. In most cases the kitchen has to be completed very quickly as it's a key area if the family are occupying the property at the time of fitting.
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Yes, I accept that. You are of course right, but I thought Roger is in a rental right now and so might be in a similar position. We relocated the kitchen and continued the old one in a different room until I had finished the new one.
 
Steve Maskery said:
Will someone please explain to me the current fashion of having a kitchen sink that does not have a draining board? I just don't understand iit.
Serious question
S
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The last four houses I lived in here didn't have draining boards as part of the sink. Instead, the dish drainer rack has a tray that with a curled lip that overhangs the edge of the sink to let the water drip into the sink.
 
AJB Temple said:
I did not make any carcasses in our very large kitchen. I made a frame fixed to the wall, solid oak legs and struts, and did the whole lot below the work surfaces and 5m island with drawers (Blum - full pull out heavy duty runners). With a domino drawers are quick and easy to make and you can maximise use of every inch of space and depth. No plinths either - everything raised high enough to vacuum beneath and fit under plinth lights.

I've never understood this obsession with carcasses especially from people who have actual woodworking skills.
Click to expand...
Any pictures?🤔
 
We don't have a draining board either. We do hand wash stemware using the double sink then stand them on tea towels and dry with catering paper. Not having a draining board makes the space more useful for other stuff. Dishwasher (in an adjacent room) does pretty much everything far better and more economically than I can.
 
We have one of those drainer things: it's horrible but it was a s/h gift to the DC, so it's sacrosanct.

Note that such photographs only include crockery that actually fits, not the normal hotch-potch that we have, which usually doesn't. And then you can't get to the tap, nor find room for cookware, etc.

The house originally had a pair of smallish circular sink bowls, let into the worktop with a gap of about 2" between, and the tap symmetrically placed between them.

I got fed up with standing in the puddle on the floor, so fitted a Franke large single rectangular bowl with drainer. It's been brilliant.
 
We have solid (Corian type) worktops and I just routed drainage grooves into the section to one side of the underslung sink. It works well as a drainer but is still functional space for other use. The dishwasher is where it should be, right next to the sink unit.

Tea towel for us to dry handwashed dishes, I ain't payin' for catering paper. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Solid worktop here too, Silstone quartz, I had the drainage grooves routed on both sides of the sink as often dirty but wet items need to plonked somewhere. Water marks easily removed with 15% vinegar and or a DRY Scotchbrite pad. Twelve years on still as good as new.
 
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