Removing screws

[Windows]

I suspect I need to drill out these screws. What kind of drill bit? I’ve never drilled metal so may be a stupid question.

Brass hinge. Non-brass screws, possibly also glued in. I had some purchase on these using the slots to start, but nothing has moved at all. Cracked one screwdriver bit. Tried wd40. Tried hammer. Tried heat from a hairdryer. Switched to different screwdriver bits and started stripping the heads. Wood is Edwardian pine or similar.

Maybe I should try cutting away the hinge itself then see what I’ve got?

 

[thetyreman]

try a dremell to cut the groove deeper then go in with a flathead screwdriver, so far that has never failed me yet with this kind of thing, if that fails then try a crowbar or brute force.

 

[RogerS]

Don't forget that you need to have a screwdriver with exactly the right size 'bit' to fit exactly into the screw slot. Grind the screwdriver down if necessary. Those screws will be rusted in. Try tightening them first to break the seal.

Drilling is next to impossible in my experience.

 

[Windows]

Turns out that the hinge is kind of laminated/folded so making some progress getting the hinge off. Used a hacksaw to make some cuts, a chisel to start separating the layers (sorry chisel!), and a small pry bar to go further, then fingers and metal fatigue to break bits off.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Fresh option:

At the heritage railway where I volunteer, we have a LOT of this. We have, like you, snapped bits, gouged decorative finishes, exhausted patience, practiced our Anglo Saxon, Irish, Welsh, Inner London supply of expressive words....

We use a hole saw. NOT the version that has a drill bit down the centre, the other sort, 'empty pipe' so to speak. The good ones, Starrett et al, cut thin steel and brass (your hinge) with impressive equanimity. You would then be left with three holes to fill with glued-in dowels and three 'plugs' of timber, from the hole saw, each with a retained screw at its centre. The now Gruyère-shaped hinge plate can be replaced, in the knowledge that your new screws through it will be into 'fresh' hardwood.
We rehang carriage doors with this method. Easy peasy, lemon squeezey.

 

[Malc2098]

I have also had some success with an impact drill, giving a quick burst of clockwise, followed by undoing.

 

[Windows]

One screw came out leaving only its tip still in there - rusty. One screw came out cleanly. And one screw just lost its head and the body is still in there. I used this guy:

 

[Windows]

It’s not looking too pretty but there are no screws in there now. I drilled around the last problem screw with a tiny drill bit then managed to grab the end with the pincers.

 

[Windows]

I glued dowels in the holes, drilled pilots, attached new hinges, and rehung the window. A 5 minute job that took me much of the day. Nice to have a working window again though.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Is there such a thing as a 6 mm hole saw? That’d be useful. I have a 6 mm plug cutter, but it takes out 10+ mm of wood so I didn’t use it here.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Is there such a thing as a 6 mm hole saw?

Yes. And you're not having mine.

 

[Mike]

Is there such a thing as a 6 mm hole saw? That’d be useful. I have a 6 mm plug cutter, but it takes out 10+ mm of wood so I didn’t use it here.

If you can find something like these in the UK, they work great.



Don't bother trying to order them from Woodcraft, as they no longer ship to some international countries even though the currency symbol shows Euros. I have ordered from Woodcraft before, but the paragraph I highlighted in the red box is new. I can't imagine what has changed.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

You can also make Mike's suggested screw extractor...but unless you have access to a hardening oven, like Dr. Al's, chewing through wood only is your restricted option.

 

[Trevanion]

There are certain tricks to help get screws out, but those screws looked pretty far gone on the thread anyway so most likely would not have come out with a screwdriver regardless.

Sometimes a set of left-handed drill bits is useful for work like this, the drill heats up the piece during drilling which can loosen it up, the anti-clockwise rotation can unthread a fastener if it bites, and if neither of the above happen, it will drill the fastener out.

 

[Eric the Viking]

As someone who has just sourced #14 wood screws (probably still too small for the original hinges) for our front door, I hate dealing with old, slotted wood-screws for similar reasons.

I often use heat first - a kitchen blowlamp is good for this (creme broulee anyone?). I like MAPP gas, but it's hard to get a small enough flame with the burners I have. If you want to save paint, or simply not inhale it(!), mask off around the screw plate with a bit of tin or similar.

I've read many times that you should use a soldering iron on the screw head, but this is nonsense. It doesn't get hot enough, solder doesn't wet rusty steel, so the conduction is poor (I can't think of a better heat transfer method incidentally), and, as you have to heat the rusty screw, some of the hinge plate and a cylinder of wood surrounding the thread, you'll struggle to find an iron with the necessary wattage.

Anyway, cook the screw head as much as you can, then let it cool thoroughly. As above, use a sharp screwdriver that fits exactly, and clean out the slot before even attempting anything. It should move cleanly, as you'll have reduced the rusty wood surrounding the screw to crispy charcoal. At that point drill out and plug.

The above was a non-starter with our #14s anyway, as the leaves of the hinges are around 3/16" thick cast steel - either the unscrewed properly or we would have to drill them (and risk them being permanently stuck!).

I note in passing that there is an issue with dowels: they're long-grain. So a traditional woodscrew will struggle a bit, and will never grip as strongly as into the original wood. Making a cross-grain dowel somehow probably won't help much, so...

... we tried a slightly different tack this time, and remember this is for traditional, and pretty big, woodscrews, with a chunky thread, not modern thin-shank hardened screws, so YMMV.

We used softwood for the dowel, on the basis the thread would cut a bit better, and we pilot-drilled and split the end of the dowel (like a Rawlplug). Titebond 3 was used to secure the dowel before any attempt to drive the screw, with the split across the stile's grain, (not along it). The pilot hole went all the way, with a wider bore for the unthreaded part of the screw, just enough so it would easily still cut a thread to pull itself in.

This seemed to work well, and we have the second hinge to do later today, now the weather is nice.

 

[AndyT]

Faced with a similar long grain / cross grain problem, I've sometimes just drilled out to the right size to hold a barbed plastic wall plug. Seems to have worked ok and I've not had any doors fall off so far.

 

[Eric the Viking]

Plastic rawlplugs were discussed, but you've seen the size (and weight) of our front door, and plastic rawlplugs are now shaped for modern screws (without the unthreaded part at the head end). I can see it would work well with a smaller, lighter door, or even a window casement.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

I note in passing that there is an issue with dowels: they're long-grain. So a traditional woodscrew will struggle a bit, and will never grip as strongly as into the original wood.

I agree EtV. We created our own using the next size up hole saw, cross-grain, and sanding to the late, great, 9finger's "honeymoon fit". We found glue swelling and then polymerising created an anchor-like base for new screws. Because we are trying to keep verisimiltude, we sometimes have to use brass slot-headed screws* in visible locations. Nae probs, but when doing so, we always, always drill pilot holes. Two sizes, two depths, to match shank and screw diameters.

*Feck awful things. Heads twist off at the the drop of a cordless drill, slots cam.out unless they have JUST the right diameter pilot hole, shanks of some screws are the same consistency as cheese....

 

[Eric the Viking]

I have a sneaky feeling that brass has a lower proportion of copper in it than it used to--not that they were ever easy to use. I keep some old steel screws, just for pre-cutting threads for small brass ones.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

I have a sneaky feeling that brass has a lower proportion of copper in it than it used to--not that they were ever easy to use. I keep some old steel screws, just for pre-cutting threads for small brass ones.

Absolutely! Great technique, particularly in ancient oak or mahogany.

 

[Cabinetman]

Just throw this in, place the right size screwdriver in the slot and then really hit it hard as if knocking the screws in further, then undo.
Nearly always works but it does need undamaged slots.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you just need to tighten up screws, hot melt glue left to set in the holes works well.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Just throw this in, place the right size screwdriver in the slot and then really hit it hard as if knocking the screws in further, then undo.
Nearly always works but it does need undamaged slots.

This can work, Ian, but of the screws/workpiece has been exposed to weather.....you can snap the shank ...... just below the head of the screw.....DAMHIKT.