Surprised it took so long....

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Sir Roger Daltrey. Nice one.

Mind you, there is also Dame Penny Mordaunt...

 

[Mike G]

Roger Daltry's contribution to music is ahead of Dave Gilmour's? Really?

Of course not, but it shows what an arbitrary and anachronistic system the honours system is.

 

[Lons]

Roger Daltry's contribution to music is ahead of Dave Gilmour's? Really?

Of course not, but it shows what an arbitrary and anachronistic system the honours system is.

I'm not a fan of either Mike and certainly not the system but they justify awards by saying it's for charity work. Daltry does a lot for the teenage cancer trust I believe.

What about the two female presenters of strictly come dancing? MBE for a part time extremely well paid job, taxpayer's money to boot.

 

[AndyP]

Not only about his contribution to music of course.
I have no doubt DG and many others also do a lot of work outside of the chosen profession too.
At least Tess and Claudia have been doing their bit to entertain a vast proportion of the TV viewing public for many years but an 18yr pub game exponent

 

[Blackswanwood]

At least Tess and Claudia have been doing their bit to entertain a vast proportion of the TV viewing public for many years but an 18yr pub game exponent

You beat me to it … services to the kebab industry …

 

[Mike G]

I'm not a fan of either Mike and certainly not the system but they justify awards by saying it's for charity work. Daltry does a lot for the teenage cancer trust I believe.

What about the two female presenters of strictly come dancing? MBE for a part time extremely well paid job, taxpayer's money to boot.

Dave Gilmour does a lot for homeless charities, including giving his London house to one of them a few years ago. I only use him as an illustration, not to say that one is more worthy than another, but to make to point that the system is entirely aritrary. It's about who you know.

I'll just leave this here........Ian Botham was knighted despite a drugs conviction, and made a Lord despite posting a photo of his genitalia on Twitter. Geoff Boycott was knighted despite a conviction for assaulting a girlfriend. Chris Froome won the Tour de France 4 times as well as 3 other Grand Tours, and only got an OBE.

There's a danger that the whole thing could start looking a bit silly.......

 

[Lons]

...................There's a danger that the whole thing could start looking a bit silly.......

It already is silly Mike, as you said it's who you know.

As an aside, I witnessed the damage Botham did throwing beer around the hotel outside our village. Charity event hosted by the Caller brothers which we sponsored and the cricketers were staying at the Caller owned hotel. He wasn't invited the following year.
A lot of ability but a drunken slob was the image I saw.

 

[AndyP]

I'm no expert but I believe that just about every country has a public honours system of some sort or another with similar public debates as to the fairness of it. If the current UK system were to be scrapped what would it be replaced with? is there a need for an honours system at all?
There will always be supporters and detractors of anyone awarded or ignored.

 

[wallace]

When lady penelope's chauffeur gets knighted for his public service you know the system is broken. I played a tiny part in getting simon weston his honor.

 

[Doug]

Yes when you look at some of the luminaries who have been recipients of an honour, Rolf Harris, Harvey Weinstein, Stuart Hall, Jimmy Saville it begins to look more like the sex offenders register.
& who can forget such stellar names as Robert Mugabe & Benito Mussolini, what great picks those were.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

When lady penelope's chauffeur gets knighted for his public service you know the system is broken. I played a tiny part in getting simon weston his honor.

Cameron's hairdresser?

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Roger Daltry's contribution to music is ahead of Dave Gilmour's? Really?

Of course not, but it shows what an arbitrary and anachronistic system the system is

I was weighing his charity work Mike. Anything else I could have said has been well expressed by your good self and the other contributors.
My own personal distaste for the "arbitrary" nature of "gong awards" is epitomised by a certain blonde young thing, working in No10 under(!) BloJo(b) getting into the Lords - at just under thirty was it? Now, she gets to manipulate the laws I and you can get prosecuted by.
Sam

 

[Woodbloke]

Any recipient of said gongs who's distinctly unchuffed with it can always stick it the post and return it to Buck House. I'm old and ugly enough to remember that a certain Fab Four did the very same in the 60's Perhaps Paula wotshername from the PO ought to get something...apart from a prison sentence.

Personally, I like the system, fault laden as it is, but then all systems are; difficult to point to one and say 'yep, that's a gud'n' - Rob

 

[CHJ]

Personally, I like the system, fault laden as it is, but then all systems are; difficult to point to one and say 'yep, that's a gud'n' - Rob

Likewise, in the upper reaches the system does show considerable bias to "It's who you know" but lower down the ladders, (birthday , calendar, etc. honours lists) there are a lot of worthy individuals that get awards, citations and various acknowledgements of their contribution to society and/or dedicated work ethics. They are nominated by their immediate peers be they in the public, military or civil sectors both central and local, that the general public at large have no knowledge of.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We should start with the premise that no one gets an honour for doing their job.

 

[Lons]

Any recipient of said gongs who's distinctly unchuffed with it can always stick it the post and return it to Buck House. I'm old and ugly enough to remember that a certain Fab Four did the very same in the 60's Perhaps Paula wotshername from the PO ought to get something...apart from a prison sentence.

Personally, I like the system, fault laden as it is, but then all systems are; difficult to point to one and say 'yep, that's a gud'n' - Rob

I'm probably wrong Rob but I'm also old enough to remember and I thought it was only John lennon and maybe Geoerge Harrison (not sure) who returned them years later. I know Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr were happy enough to accept a knighthood.

Wasn't Paula vennells stripped of her CBE earlier this year after a public outcry?

 

[wallace]

Cameron's hairdresser?

 

[Spectric]

All these so called honours are just so outdated, do we really need to live in an age of "Lords & Ladies" as these titles have no relevance or meaning except social snobbery. People should do a good job because they want to and for me the best of the those are the ones who turned the honour down, once they are handed around like confetti they become meaningless anyway.

 

[Woodbloke]

All these so called honours are just so outdated, do we really need to live in an age of "Lords & Ladies" as these titles have no relevance or meaning except social snobbery. People should do a good job because they want to and for me the best of the those are the ones who turned the honour down, once they are handed around like confetti they become meaningless anyway.

I completely disagree. Would you also do away with decorations for those in the Armed Forces (and civilians) who deliberately go into harms way? Would you have tackled the guy with the knives on London Bridge??? - Rob

 

[Mike G]

......Would you have tackled the guy with the knives on London Bridge??? - Rob

I'm not sure what that's got to do with the subject of honours. Are you really suggesting that they guy who tackled the terrorist did it just to get a gong.......or that Spectric wouldn't have done the same thing unless there was a gong involved?

As it happens, I agree that medals for valour are fine, and indeed, that every society needs to recognise stuff like that. I just smirk at the knighthoods for "services to X political party", and for civil servants, businessmen, sportsmen, actors etc who are just going about their normal daily business.

 

[Woodbloke]

I'm not sure what that's got to do with the subject of honours. Are you really suggesting that they guy who tackled the terrorist did it just to get a gong.......or that Spectric wouldn't have done the same thing unless there was a gong involved?

As it happens, I agree that medals for valour are fine, and indeed, that every society needs to recognise stuff like that. I just smirk at the knighthoods for "services to X political party", and for civil servants, businessmen, sportsmen, actors etc who are just going about their normal daily business.

Of course not Mike; the actions that the individual(s) did on London Bridge were done without recourse to future awards and the same can be said for all those in the Armed Forces who go into action, wherever it is on the face of the globe. Both honour systems are equally valid and both are flawed. Why didn't Paddy Mayne of the SAS get a VC in WW2? The debate still continues - Rob

 

[Spectric]

There is a huge difference in being given a military honour for duty above and beyond to being given the title of Sir or the likes which seem more easy to get. One is for bravery whilst being in a conflict and the other is what, much better to ditch the silly titles and award a civilian type medal for services to society or something.

 

[Woodbloke]

There is a huge difference in being given a military honour for duty above and beyond to being given the title of Sir or the likes which seem more easy to get. One is for bravery whilst being in a conflict and the other is what, much better to ditch the silly titles and award a civilian type medal for services to society or something.

Read wot I writ above ^^ Both are valid and honourable systems (though flawed) where awards are given by HMG (not the Royal Family, with one or two exceptions) to both members of the Armed Forces, the general public and in exceptional circumstances, an island - Rob

Edit - mods, probably time to close this thread down.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

I just smirk at the knighthoods for "services to X political party", and for civil servants, businessmen, sportsmen, actors etc who are just going about their normal daily business.

"Heah, heah, Sah!"...as was heard on many occasions....
No Mickey-Take Mike, I agree. To see a procession of 'suits' line up "for a K." after - in many cases - a relatively short time "in post" - is sickening.

Athletes are a little harder to label and reject, because they act as direct visual, achieving, role models for younger generations. I'd cite Chris Froome, Caz and The Big "G" for a start, but I have also heeded your 'feet of clay'/hypocrisy comments above.
I just feel that embracing a strict regime of training and nutrition to win Le Tour, any world-class marathon or modern gymnastics competition needs recognition, over and above the lights and glamour(??) of Sports Personality of The Year.

 

[Dr.Al]

 

[wallace]

Read wot I writ above ^^ Both are valid and honourable systems (though flawed) where awards are given by HMG (not the Royal Family, with one or two exceptions) to both members of the Armed Forces, the general public and in exceptional circumstances, an island - Rob

Edit - mods, probably time to close this thread down.

I reckon Sir 9fingers would of had this thread nipped in the bud some time ago

 

[AndyP]

So far this discussion has remained civil and I cannot see any forum rules that have been broken. However it seems obvious that disagreements will remain and would be better discussed elsewhere.
Could we please all agree to disagree and leave it here without us having to take the heavy handed approach?

 

[Lurker]

They overlooked me, yet again!