Vintage Wood Machining Books

[AndyT]

I was also rather struck by this image:

I know that old promo material sometimes applied a teeny bit of artistic licence and made premises seem a trifle larger than they were, but that's an impressive works.

I've never noticed it when visiting Rochdale, but I think that this view from Google Earth shows more or less the same spot, with the red brick tower remaining as a little remnant of what there used to be. And maybe those older looking long sheds between Trufab and Total Smart Solutions.



A view from lower down confirms it used to be S ROBINS N AND SON, but it's a Howdens now.



Not quite so impressive somehow...

 

[Trevanion]

I know that old promo material sometimes applied a teeny bit of artistic licence and made premises seem a trifle larger than they were, but that's an impressive works.

I've never noticed it when visiting Rochdale, but I think that this view from Google Earth shows more or less the same spot, with the red brick tower remaining as a little remnant of what there used to be. And maybe those older looking long sheds between Trufab and Total Smart Solutions.

View attachment 1

A view from lower down confirms it used to be S ROBINS N AND SON, but it's a Howdens now.



Not quite so impressive somehow...

I had a chat with someone a while back who lives near the old Sagar and Dominion factories in Halifax and used to play there when he was a kid, he showed me photos of the Sagar factory now which was just a wall remaining (although the foundry was still operating across the street) and the Dominion factory is now a carpet shop. A real shame considering these woodworking industries were giants in their time and they could afford the most expensive office spaces in London.

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

The Hanchett Saw and Knife Fitting Manual 7th Edition 1950
Wood Planing Knives, Hints on Cutting Bevels and Grinding by Drabble and Sanderson Ltd 1936
Instructions for Grinding Router Cutters No 600/2 by Wadkin Ltd (Not sure of age, 1960-ish?)
Your Guide to Good Sawing with Planet Wide Bandsaws by H.Pickles and Son (Saws) Ltd (Not sure of age)
Woodworking Machines in Four Languages by H.E. Horten 1968 (This book is a language dictionary for finding out specific words in relation to woodworking machinery, I.E. Bandsaw, Bandsaege, Scie A Ruban, Sierra De Cinta...)

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

How to Tend Cutters, Knives, and Saws for Machine Woodworkers and Sawmill Owners By W.J. Blackmur, 1917
Dening & Co Woodworking Machinery Chard Catalogue, 1927

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Principles of Machine Woodworking Complete One Volume by A.H.Haycock 1961

The holy grail of holy grails, full sets of the original 5 volumes are pretty rare but these “complete” books are very scarce, with this being the only one I’ve ever seen for sale (for an absolute bargain). I’m guessing they had a very short printing run being this uncommon, I wonder just how many copies are out there? Of course, it’s absolutely packed with great information for the machine woodworker and at just a hair under 2 1/2” thick, there’s plenty of it.

 

[AndyT]

If I ever come across any obscure old books on wood machining, I check this thread to see if you haven't already got it.

No hits yet - sorry! But you do keep making it harder...

 

[Trevanion]

If I ever come across any obscure old books on wood machining, I check this thread to see if you haven't already got it.

No hits yet - sorry! But you do keep making it harder...

It's getting harder for me too! It was quite fun getting to this point, but now finding stuff I don't already have is becoming a challenge. Now that my collection is a bit of a public thing especially with Instagram I get a few people alerting me to things, for which I'm very grateful

I'd love to find copies of "Modern Shaper Practice" and "Machine Molder Practice" by W.H. Rohr, or "The Woodworking Shaper" by C.V. Christie, but they are rather rare.

 

[AndyT]

Ok!

If you need another copy of Modern Mechanical Saw Practice, 1947, by J Raymond Foyster, I've got one here you're welcome to. Or anyone else if not!

 

[Trevanion]

Post ammended to add:

C.D. Monninger Catalogue 1947
Pickles Ransome Woodworking Machinery Catalogue Circa 1930s/40s

Pickles is a bit of an unusual manufacturer, they seemingly made a lot of machinery for a long period of time but examples found in the wild are relatively rare compared to other manufacturers such as Wadkin or Robinson. This catalogue is obviously after Pickles bought A. Ransome Woodworking Machinery (Whose son, Stafford Ransome, wrote two of the books in my collection) in 1930, but I'm unsure of an exact date for it, judging by some of the quite archaic machines listed even by 1930 standards I'm guessing it was quite soon after the buyout.

A working example of this VERY heavy-duty hollow chisel morticer/borer can be seen in the Stanley Ferry Lock Gate Workshop, it would be interesting to know if there are any more.

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[AndyT]

More good stuff.

I've been trying to think of any other place where the same scale of work is done, to need a mortiser on that scale.

The Canal and River Trust still have one other similar workshop in the Midlands, at Bradley, near Bilston.

But I don't know of any more large scale timber work of this sort being done anywhere. And if the machines last 90+ years, demand is definitely going to be on the low side... Is there any contemporary maker offering kit like that? The world must need at least one, but if other countries are like the UK it's possible that they have all closed down.

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Broom and Wade Woodworking Machinery Catalogue, Circa 1904-05

This is a very unusual one, though I know of BroomWade for their compressors, I’ve never seen a Broom and Wade Woodworking Machine ever before and when I saw this catalogue I was incredibly intrigued by it. It’s a very interesting one, being based in High Wycombe of course meant that they were entertaining the massive furniture industry at the time and the machines in the catalogue reflect that with many being very specialist chair making machines, the chair seat hollower being a favourite of mine out of it. Having found a bit more information online (sources HERE, and HERE), it seems the founder Harry Skeet Broom burned all the drawings and patterns for woodworking machinery in about 1910 after not much success in that line of work and entirely focused on air compressors. I suppose that would make anything to do with Broom & Wade Woodworking Machinery relatively rare having only made machinery for about 12 years before knocking it on the head, it does make you wonder how many copies of such a catalogue even exist, for all I know this could be the only surviving example.

Apologies for the below standard photos, with it being quite old and frail (so are most things at around 116 years of age) I don’t want to force it. I’m unsure of the date for this catalogue but there are dates for testimonials in the back which end about mid-1904 so my guess is that it’s either from late 1904 or 05.

 

[Cabinetman]

They were really involved complicated machines, and considering how few of any one sort might be sold it may be why he gave up on them.
The drive cord/wire? On the seat shaper is really fine and unfortunately reminds me of the old dentists drills aagh!

 

[AndyT]

Well, those are interesting! Definitely very specialised, with a tiny market to sell to. They look substantial machines too, even if they idea of a guard seems not to have bothered them too much.

I thought I would look in a book to see if I could find any other machinery from Broom and Wade or other companies in High Wycombe. The book in question is fairly rare, it's "The History of Chairmaking in High Wycombe" by L.J.Mayes, published in 1960. It traces the trade from the classic 'bodger in the woods' through increased mechanisation and consolidation and is an excellent book of its type, and possibly one that you don't have a copy of yet Dan, even though it has some pictures of early woodworking machinery? (And there don't seem to be many of those... )

The captions speak for themselves. I'm afraid I can't make out the maker of the adzing machine, even in the book. The horizontal borer seems to say "Dexter & Co Wycombe" suggesting there was at least one other specialist maker in the town, and Mayes says that most of the machinery shown is by them.

He also notes that "for the first half century of the machine age an operator with all his fingers was a rarity."

 

[Trevanion]

They were really involved complicated machines, and considering how few of any one sort might be sold it may be why he gave up on them.
The drive cord/wire? On the seat shaper is really fine and unfortunately reminds me of the old dentists drills aagh!

I'm always amazed by just how complicated some machinery was over a hundred years ago, I sometimes wonder if in some cases we've actually regressed rather than progressed. One machine that sticks out to me that I've only read about in books is the Armstrong Dovetailing Machine, as far as I'm aware there are no surviving examples, though several were sold to a box factory in Russia by Jonsered in Sweden apparently.

Well, those are interesting! Definitely very specialised, with a tiny market to sell to. They look substantial machines too, even if they idea of a guard seems not to have bothered them too much.

I thought I would look in a book to see if I could find any other machinery from Broom and Wade or other companies in High Wycombe. The book in question is fairly rare, it's "The History of Chairmaking in High Wycombe" by L.J.Mayes, published in 1960. It traces the trade from the classic 'bodger in the woods' through increased mechanisation and consolidation and is an excellent book of its type, and possibly one that you don't have a copy of yet Dan, even though it has some pictures of early woodworking machinery? (And there don't seem to be many of those... )

The captions speak for themselves. I'm afraid I can't make out the maker of the adzing machine, even in the book. The horizontal borer seems to say "Dexter & Co Wycombe" suggesting there was at least one other specialist maker in the town, and Mayes says that most of the machinery shown is by them.

He also notes that "for the first half century of the machine age an operator with all his fingers was a rarity."

I'll have to keep an eye out for a copy of that Andy, it would go nicely in the overflowing collection! Looking at the adzing machine it seems to end with "-ter & Co" so possibly it is also a Dexter machine? Of which I've also never heard of. I think one of the more prolific suppliers of machines to the furniture industry was probably Rye, quite often you will see their rather obsure machines for sale but unfortunately, they rarely attract much attention due to their specialist nature, a Rye Autoshaper is practically worthless beyond scrap value despite being quite a capable machine in the right circumstances.

In a similar vein, something I think would be an interesting read but I can't find a full copy of for free online (I am unfortunately not a university student!) is "The Mechanisation of Architectural Woodwork in Britain from the Late-Eighteenth to the Early-Twentieth Century, and its Practical, Social and Aesthetic implications" by Hentie Louw (who also has a couple of other journals that seem like they would be of interest, such as the one on Sash Windows).

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

The Woodworking Shaper, The Spindle Moulder by C.V. Christie, 1952

A big thank you to my friend John-Henry (@jhbigleyfurniture) for donating this to the cause, it's a reasonably rare book being of Australian origin and I’ve been after a copy for a couple of years now so it’s great to finally have one in hand! The rumours about this being an immensely detailed book on the subject are true, with some very interesting/dangerous practices and machinery I haven’t seen before.

 

[kirkpoore1]

More good stuff.

I've been trying to think of any other place where the same scale of work is done, to need a mortiser on that scale.

The Canal and River Trust still have one other similar workshop in the Midlands, at Bradley, near Bilston.

But I don't know of any more large scale timber work of this sort being done anywhere. And if the machines last 90+ years, demand is definitely going to be on the low side... Is there any contemporary maker offering kit like that? The world must need at least one, but if other countries are like the UK it's possible that they have all closed down.

Andy:

Mortisers of that size were used by railroad car manufacturers. The early 20th century Greenlee catalogs make some incidental mentions of this. I would expect that Pickles exported them to places like Australia and India which had to build their own rail cars even if locomotives were imported.

I’ve never seen an American hollow chisel/chain combo mortiser. A North American factory would have enough space for two machines if it needed both. I have seen them with attached drills but those were the old style reciprocating solid chisel mortisers.

Kirk

 

[AndyT]

Thanks Kirk.
It's easy to forget how much timber there used to be in railway rolling stock.

 

[Trevanion]

Andy:

Mortisers of that size were used by railroad car manufacturers. The early 20th century Greenlee catalogs make some incidental mentions of this. I would expect that Pickles exported them to places like Australia and India which had to build their own rail cars even if locomotives were imported.

I’ve never seen an American hollow chisel/chain combo mortiser. A North American factory would have enough space for two machines if it needed both. I have seen them with attached drills but those were the old style reciprocating solid chisel mortisers.

Kirk

Thanks Kirk.
It's easy to forget how much timber there used to be in railway rolling stock.

Supposedly from what I've been told, this 60" Bentel and Margedant surface planer/thicknesser was for planing the framework of rail cars to an even thickness throughout.

 

[AndyT]

Cor!
Good job they're both wearing proper protective headgear!

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Getting The Most Out Of Your Circular Saw And Jointer by the Delta Manufacturing Company, 1937

I picked this up on a whim because it’s a fairly rare booklet in Britain, it wasn’t too expensive and I hadn’t bought a wood machining book in a while (It’s getting much harder to find stuff I don’t already have ), American texts tend to be a bit bare of information but I was pleasantly surprised by this small booklet which is clearly marketed towards the hobbyist of the time. It’s quite detailed and shows very good illustrations and photographs, the practices shown themselves are interesting and quite dangerous so I don’t think you’d never be able to print something like this now detailing how to cut curves, do spiralled work, and make coves using your table saw. I particularly like the design of the taper ripping gadget in the final couple of pages, simple yet effective!

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

The “Mermaid” Saw and Cutter Manual by Spear and Jackson

Picked up this very rare little pocketbook, I’ve never seen another before and I have no idea when it was actually published, though there are some identical illustrations in Stafford Ransome’s “Cutters and Cutter Blocks” from 1927 so it’s likely from around that period. It is essentially a "Saw Doctors Handbook" and covers a surprising range of subjects in quite a large amount of detail for a small book, from reciprocating frame saws to circular saws to bandsaws to cutters!

 

[Trevanion]

Danckeart Woodworking Machinery Catalogue, Circa 1930s-40s

Not sure when this small catalogue was published but at a guess I would say 1930s or 1940s. It is quite easily the smallest catalogue I own at 6” tall and 5” wide, unfortunately it isn’t complete as pages 6 through 27 are missing. It is unbelievably fragile, an accidental sneeze would destroy it.

 

[Trevanion]

Cooksley Woodworking Machinery Catalogue, Circa 1940s/50s.

It’s nice to finally pick up a Cooksley catalogue as one has evaded me for a long while. Wadkin gets a lot of attention, but I personally believe that Cooksley were as good if not a better manufacturer of machinery in some cases.

 

[RogerS]

Many thanks, Dan, for a fascinating thread.

I think your signature line should read 'Son of Scrit'

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

I think your signature line should read 'Son of Scrit'

Defanintootly. That erudite man is sorely missed by us what prefer 'heavy iron'.

 

[Trevanion]

"Unlike lizards, we can't regrow digits" -Scrit

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Danckeart Woodworking Machinery Catalogue, Circa 1900

This is quite an unusual catalogue and a difficult one to date, I would say it’s definitely before electric motors became common as it appears there was no options for it, but the art style of the catalogue is almost Art-Deco which would suggest early twentieth century. Even more unusually the catalogue is printed in Portuguese, obviously for the Madeiras market. The photographs from inside the factory are very interesting to see, very much a quintessential industrial revolution factory, it must’ve been a horrendously loud environment to work in when all the line shafts were turning. One of the prettier catalogues I’ve bought and one of my more shrewd investments, a whole £0.99 on eBay!

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks Dan, another slice of history that I didn’t know much about (nothing new there then) I find it so incredible that each new generation has to bring out a range of equipment, yet some of the equipment of the preceding generation was far more complex much larger heavier and no doubt more dangerous.
And very nearly every single bit of it has long ago gone to the scrap yard. All very sad.
Ian

 

[AndyT]

Wow! Good spot indeed. At least the catalogue is now in a place where it will be appreciated, even if all the machines have gone for scrap, as Ian said.

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Greenlee Woodworking Machinery Pocket Catalogue, 1925.

With so much of Britain’s machine woodworking heritage disappearing to adorn the shelves of collectors in North America, I will admit it does feel nice to find the occasional piece of American machine woodworking heritage here. It’s an unusual thing to find here as I don’t believe I’ve ever seen any Greenlee machines in Britain, so I presume this must’ve been brought here by a collector in the past. Greenlee were a very interesting company that mostly specialised in morticing machines and were credited for patenting the first Hollow Mortice Chisel along with the inventor, Adolf Hawkinson. They also produced specialist equipment for the railcar industry back when the bodies were made of large sections solid timber.

 

[Cabinetman]

So inventive, I’m trying to imagine the R and R costs back then to produce machines like those with a relatively small market.

 

[Trevanion]

It wasn’t such a small market back then, if anything it was one of the biggest industries in the world because everything was made from wood, not plastic. This is evident with the big British manufacturers like Wadkin and Robinson who back in their hey-day had offices and showrooms on the most expensive streets in London, you wouldn’t see that today!

Although the joinery market was indeed smaller in the United States compared to Britain because they industrialised housing early on, it wasn’t like here where it was largely artisanal woodwork, especially to service older buildings. In the United States they had massive factories producing joinery for far cheaper than anyone else could so nobody really bothered investing in starting small workshops that were ubiquitous here, hence why lighter industrial woodworking machinery like our Multico’s, Startrite’s, Wadkin Bursgreen’s, etc... is relatively rare out there.

 

[Cabinetman]

That explains a lot, some massive what they call jointers on Marketplace, and the thicknessers seem to be in the 16” range. Would you like me to collect pics of the more esoteric old US stuff?
Ian

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

White Woodworking Machinery “The White Line” Catalogue, 1950.

White of Paisley was a relatively obscure manufacturer of woodworking machinery, though not for lack of quality as White machines are regarded amongst the best ever made, even considered better than Wadkin by some. A very innovative company in their time who had excellent engineers in-house, they patented what could possibly be the first vertical panel/wall saw in 1937, 24 years before Ludwig Striebig patented his own vertical panel saw and claimed to be the first.

 

[AJB Temple]

Such a brilliant thread. Craftsmen must have had a different attitude in the days of these huge and somewhat risky looking machines. The picture of the enormous White Line band saw with the huge spoked upper wheel puzzles me a bit as there doesn't seem to be enough room for a wheel below unless there was a pit in the ground.

 

[Trevanion]

Often with big resaws a pit is needed for the bottom wheel, you can get to about a 900mm wheel before the table gets too high for the average person to use. If you ever get the chance to walk around Yandles’ wood mill in Martock you’ll see their big Stenner saw is dug into the ground.

 

[Cabinetman]

Or a small wheel?

 

[Trevanion]

Or a small wheel?

You could in theory use a smaller wheel on the bottom, but with a two-wheeled machine you would have a sort of cone-shape of the band between the two wheels so you would have to offset the bottom wheel to account for that so it cuts perpendicularly and you would also reduce your throat capacity. I've not seen a woodworking bandsaw like this, but often you will see metalworking bandsaws like the Startrite machines which have four wheels for extra throat capacity for cutting metal sheets

I found a video of Yandles' bandsaw running, at around 3:50 into the video:

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[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

Drabble & Sanderson Ltd “Modern Tool Equipment for Sawmill and Woodworking Establishments” catalogue, 1938.

Drabble & Sanderson isn’t a particularly well-known company these days and possibly best known for their handsaws produced up until the 1910s. At the time of this catalogue they would have been a subsidiary of Spear & Jackson, with D&S focusing on industrial woodworking equipment where S&J focused on gardening equipment and hand tools.

 

[Trevanion]

Post amended to add:

W.A. Fell Modern Woodworking Machinery Catalogue, 1954.

I would like to thank Cath for sending this on to me after finding it during a house clearance, another piece of history saved from the bin!

W.A. Fell were an extremely niche manufacturer of machinery that primarily served the bobbin, handle, and furniture trades. The vast majority of their machines are intended to be high-volume production machinery to be used in factories producing thousands upon thousands of a single article of wood item, a very popular example of this are wood bobbins for sewing thread which Windermere was well known for as being the “Bobbin Capital” of the world where millions were produced.

A famous example of a Windermere Bobbin Mill is Stott Park Bobbin Mill now owned and operated by English Heritage operating much the same as it was a hundred years ago. Many of the machines in the mill were manufactured by W.A. Fell.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_azPG8GAU6A