Wooden hinge drill set

[Stuart]

I’ve been looking into wooden hinges and the only really usedul info is in relation to the Rob Cosman set but at over £130 it’s a tad expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper way of accurately drilling centre holes in dowels?

 

[AndyP]

Can it be done on a lathe? providing you have one of course.

 

[Mike G]

Yes. The easiest way to achieve an accurate hole through a dowel is to make your own dowel out of two (length-ways) halves, with a small channel/ groove formed in the middle before the two halves are glued back together. You then drill in from each end to get to your final sized hole, and your drill will follow the pilot-groove you created. Having got the hole accurately drilled, you can then turn the thing down to a dowel. If that doesn't make sense, I'll draw it.

 

[TomTrees]

How about something like finding suitable stock, whats slightly oversize, say from a bolt with a long shoulder,
cut a little segment off...or two, and drill out as close to centre as you can.
Thereafter, jamming said bit, or perhaps with another slightly larger bit, what's not exceeding the hinge pin diameter,
in the stock, and sanding it with a clamped block clamped down, to get it to final dimension.

You could do the same thing with the outer sleeve, though there might be an easier route to doing so,
should some sorta tubing from something be perfect for the job.
I guess someone here could suggest something , i.e some nice thick walled stuff,
what could be chucked up in a drill?

It would be nice to know what might be suitable.

Cheers
Tom

 

[PAC1]

One of the clever things with the Rob Cosman kit is that whilst the kit drills the centre of the dowel, it does not drill all the way through. In fact only 2 or 3mm deep hole is drilled. So can the dowel be captured and then a short hole drilled.
The hinge works by short lengths of welding rod (less than 6mm long) being inserted into the holes in the dowel. The dowel is fixed in alternate lengths to the box and lid and the welding rod is free to allow rotation but not lengthways movement.
Food for thought.

 

[Stuart]

Yes. The easiest way to achieve an accurate hole through a dowel is to make your own dowel out of two (length-ways) halves, with a small channel/ groove formed in the middle before the two halves are glues back together. You then drill in from each end to get to your final sized hole, and your drill will follow the pilot-groove you created. Having got the hole accurately drilled, you can then turn the thing down to a dowel. If that doesn't make sense, I'll draw it.

Thanks Mike, I understand and might give that a try.

No lathe I’m afraid.

I’ve read good things about the Cosman kit but it is pricey.

More thinking required but thanks for the comments.

 

[AJB Temple]

It won't work in a lathe anyway if the drill is small diameter, as the grain drags them out of line, even if you go in and out a lot of times, unless the wood is soft and very straight grained. I think Mike's method is clever and will be almost invisible. He's suggested it before and I used it in black walnut, but I do have a lathe so I made the dowel shape after creating a through hole. Started with a square cross section, cut in half, slotted, glued back, rough plane to octagon and true up on the lathe.

If I were doing it with a dowel, I would consider making a feature of it by glueing in a contrast piece of veneer to replace the saw kerf.

 

[Mike G]

Here's one I made 25 or 30 years ago, in walnut and sycamore:

 

[Windows]

If the goal is to drill a hole in a dowel, I’m not sure whether this actually helps, but I saw a video where a dowel was put in the chuck of a drill press, lowered to a clamp, clamped, released from the chuck, then the centre of the dowel drilled using an appropriate diameter bit in the drill press.

 

[Windows]

That’s a lovely looking hinge, Mike. Is there a WIP of its construction?

 

[Woodbloke]

Can it be done on a lathe? providing you have one of course.

Not on a wood lathe 'cos the bit wanders. Don't ask me how I know. Doable on a small mw lathe but the centre drill is probably too large for a 1/16" hole

Yes. The easiest way to achieve an accurate hole through a dowel is to make your own dowel out of two (length-ways) halves, with a small channel/ groove formed in the middle before the two halves are glued back together. You then drill in from each end to get to your final sized hole, and your drill will follow the pilot-groove you created. Having got the hole accurately drilled, you can then turn the thing down to a dowel. If that doesn't make sense, I'll draw it.

I think what the OP is questioning is the wooden hinges for a small box. I'd suggest your method is a bit 'fraught' for a 6.4mm dowel

Thanks Mike, I understand and might give that a try.

No lathe I’m afraid.

I’ve read good things about the Cosman kit but it is pricey.

More thinking required but thanks for the comments.

I have the RC kit from CHT and true, it's expensive, but it's just about the most effective way of drilling a truly concentric hole in a very small diameter dowel. If you can't do that, forget making RC style boxes with a wooden hinge. Here's a couple done fairly recently:



Front and...



...back with the virtually invisible hinge. You only use the RC jig for a matter of seconds to drill a 5mm long hole, but if you haven't got it, the job becomes almost impossible. Splash the cash - Rob

Edit - the RC kit will also drill concentric holes in dowel slightly smaller than a broom handle.

 

[Paisawood]

Being too mean to buy the Cosman jig, I made uo a wooden jig but the results were not very consistent, I have now made up a metal jig using a length of 12.7mm brass rod which seems to work well. I very carefully drilled through at 1.6 mm and then partially drilled a 6.4mm hole at one end before using a countersink to relieve the entrance hole. I then cross drilled for a chip clearance hole plus a second small hole which I tapped to take 3mm grub screws to hold the 1.6mm drill bit in place.

It works well but in hindsight I would have been better off buying the Cosman kit and making some boxes. I now need to actually make a box!

 

[Woodbloke]

Being too mean to buy the Cosman jig, I made uo a wooden jig but the results were not very consistent, I have now made up a metal jig using a length of 12.7mm brass rod which seems to work well. I very carefully drilled through at 1.6 mm and then partially drilled a 6.4mm hole at one end before using a countersink to relieve the entrance hole. I then cross drilled for a chip clearance hole plus a second small hole which I tapped to take 3mm grub screws to hold the 1.6mm drill bit in place.

It works well but in hindsight I would have been better off buying the Cosman kit and making some boxes. I now need to actually make a box!

View attachment 29027View attachment 29026

The beauty of the RC jig is that it's quite cleverly designed as you can drill dowel of different sizes. With careful work it's possible to make a metal jig provided you've got a decent metalwork lathe. The RC jig is definitely not worth it if you intend to only make one or two boxes, but last year I made 15 of the things for charity, so I feel the investment was worth it. Once you get into the swing of making them, they're also useful gifts as you don't need to shell out for expensive hinges - Rob

 

[Dr.Al]

I’ve been looking into wooden hinges and the only really usedul info is in relation to the Rob Cosman set but at over £130 it’s a tad expensive.

Does anyone know of a cheaper way of accurately drilling centre holes in dowels?

Find someone local with a metalworking lathe and make your own version of the jig. Okay, perhaps not that practical, but it's another case where a metalworking lathe is a very handy thing to have.

A jig like that (especially if you were only interested in a single diameter dowel & drill size) would be trivial to make on a metal lathe. A bit more work to support multiple diameters, but even then it wouldn't be too much work.

 

[Mike G]

That’s a lovely looking hinge, Mike. Is there a WIP of its construction?

I've a few photos of the finished item, but it was from the days before digital photography, so no WIP.

 

[Woodbloke]

Find someone local with a metalworking lathe and make your own version of the jig. Okay, perhaps not that practical, but it's another case where a metalworking lathe is a very handy thing to have.

A jig like that (especially if you were only interested in a single diameter dowel & drill size) would be trivial to make on a metal lathe. A bit more work to support multiple diameters, but even then it wouldn't be too much work.

This is the complete RC jig:



...squished together and fitted into its plastic tubular carrying case - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

I think Mikes way is perfectly doable even with small sections, but I think it would help considerably if the two halves of wood were split to start with, then the grain is running correctly for the drill to follow the Chanel/groove as described, twice the chance of success. Obviously it also helps if the wood is very straight grained.

 

[Woodbloke]

I think Mikes way is perfectly doable even with small sections, but I think it would help considerably if the two halves of wood were split to start with, then the grain is running correctly for the drill to follow the Chanel/groove as described, twice the chance of success. Obviously it also helps if the wood is very straight grained.

The issue here Ian is that with an RC box, the first thing to do is to actually make an accurate dowel from the material used for the box. In that way, the hinge becomes 'invisible' when the box is closed. Secondly, in a small box RC recommends a five section lid, so in the boxes shown above, each section of the hinge is about 25mm long. More power to your elbow if you want to split five tiny bits of dowel in half, faff about with them and then glue each bit perfectly back together - Rob

 

[PAC1]

There are two different things going on here. You first need to decide if you want to make a box in the Rob Cosman style where the dowel made from a section cut from the lid, is cut into sections, fixed alternately to the box and lid with a short steel pin providing the pivot or as Mike has done where a dowel is inserted into two pieces of wood forming a hinge which rotate around a continuous length of dowel (presumably glued only at each end). It seems neither actually require you to drill a hole all the way along the length of dowel. Therefore whilst Mike's description of how to achieve a hole all the way through a dowel is interesting. Drilling a hole all the way along a dowel actually has nothing to do with box making as far as I am aware. I am aware that Incra make a kit to drill a hole for the purpose of making a hinge similar to Mike's https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/incra-hingecrafter-metric/
I purchased the Rob Corman kit a year or two ago and whilst it is expensive and you only actually use it for a few seconds, the system works well (I posted a few on here). I personally do not have the skills or equipment to make the tools so was "happy" to purchase them. The reality is that it is all the other bits in Rob Cosman's Box Making videos that are really important.
Mike's hinges are very impressive but different techniques are needed for box and hinge making in that style. So as I say first question is which style are you wanting to make?

 

[Stuart]

As I intend to make a number of smaller boxes I shall be purchasing Mr Cosman’s kit.

I’ll report back in due course but no breath holding please!

 

[Cabinetman]

The issue here Ian is that with an RC box, the first thing to do is to actually make an accurate dowel from the material used for the box. In that way, the hinge becomes 'invisible' when the box is closed. Secondly, in a small box RC recommends a five section lid, so in the boxes shown above, each section of the hinge is about 25mm long. More power to your elbow if you want to split five tiny bits of dowel in half, faff about with them and then glue each bit perfectly back together - Rob

And there was me thinking you would be just the man for a bit of faffing about Rob, there’s some proper fiddly bits on your Krenov stuff

 

[TomTrees]

Some questions for those with the Cosman drill kit, if I may.
What sort of pins did you use, as it doesn't seem like the off the shelves metric welding rods
would be a nice fit?,
Well, not without a good coating of something beforehand perhaps...
as I suppose, should a box get damp whilst used in a bathroom for instance,
I'm guessing there's a possibility it may react with tannins or possibly stain some lighter timber species?

Likely very much overthinking this next one, but perhaps not!.

Has the thought of getting/making a custom one entered your mind/i.e...
Do you feel restricted in regards the thickness dimensions of the stock you must use to match?
If so, then I'd be interested to know what size(s) would be your next choices.

Kinda seems a bit silly to be going out and buying imperial bits to make some in the first place,
and for the die to cut the thread too, not being sure if I can get that stuff local,
Not to mention the rods for the pins...
Though that said, I often find imperial looks right to my eyes.

Cosman's boxes look quite nicely proportioned, though seeing things in real life could be a different story.



Thanks
Tom

 

[PAC1]

I use welding rod. I have not coated mine but I was not intending them for damp conditions.
I have not been restricted by the thickness of material yet but the biggest restriction is the type of lid. If you look at Rob’s box making posts you will see the struggle when doing anything other than a simple board set between the sides of the box. On Rob’s last box he seems to have solved the problem but it was quite a journey.

 

[Woodbloke]

Some questions for those with the Cosman drill kit, if I may.
What sort of pins did you use, as it doesn't seem like the off the shelves metric welding rods
would be a nice fit?,
Well, not without a good coating of something beforehand perhaps...
as I suppose, should a box get damp whilst used in a bathroom for instance,
I'm guessing there's a possibility it may react with tannins or possibly stain some lighter timber species?

Likely very much overthinking this next one, but perhaps not!.

Has the thought of getting/making a custom one entered your mind/i.e...
Do you feel restricted in regards the thickness dimensions of the stock you must use to match?
If so, then I'd be interested to know what size(s) would be your next choices.

Kinda seems a bit silly to be going out and buying imperial bits to make some in the first place,
and for the die to cut the thread too, not being sure if I can get that stuff local,
Not to mention the rods for the pins...
Though that said, I often find imperial looks right to my eyes.

Cosman's boxes look quite nicely proportioned, though seeing things in real life could be a different story.

View attachment 29067

Thanks
Tom

I was very kindly sent some steel welding rod (1/16 & 1/8") by a forum member and the 1/16" size is perfect for all the small boxes I've made and the ones shown on RC's videos. It's advisable to follow his method to the letter; I didn't once and had to scrap the box I was making at the time. There's a whole series on making these things, but the one I use neatly encapsulates the whole process and at 44 minutes or so it's not too onerous to watch. Making the slab lid that fits between the sides is IMO by far the easiest way to make them but it goes without saying the box itself must be completely out of wind when it's glued up or the lid will be wonky when it's fitted.

None of the boxes I've made thus far have gone into an environment with occasional excessive moisture in the air, such as a bathroom so it's tricky to say how they'd react under those conditions, but not favourably I'd imagine. Stock for the boxes is about 10mm thick with fatter end bits if required, but not essential. The boxes tend to be long, thinnish rectangles as RC explains that with a wider, solid lid there's a possibility of it warping; hence the reason why his boxes are the shape they are - Rob