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Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamphlets

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 09 Apr 2021, 09:54

I picked up this old tome the other day, "The New Guide to Carpentry, General Framing, and Joinery" by Robert Scott Burn, not dated but from what I can find online it's possibly from 1868.

Seriously beefy book at 11" tall, 9" wide and over 2" thick with 350 pages of (rather fine) text and a further 150 plates at the back that the text references.

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Never seen that style of bench stop before with the levers, interesting design.

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Some funky-looking panels inside too.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 09 Apr 2021, 10:39

Woah, serious library envy is developing down here! Very nice find, in a luxury library binding. Please leave a few for me!

Looking at the BL catalogue for Burns' works, they don't note a publication date but his many other works seem to span the 1850s to the 1870s.

RogerS should have plenty of ideas about what to do with his staircase now...

As for those clever cams for holding work, Roy Underhill did a great video about them - start at about seven minutes in.

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 09 Apr 2021, 12:20

AndyT wrote:Woah, serious library envy is developing down here! Very nice find, in a luxury library binding. Please leave a few for me!


You've got be quick on the draw, Gringo!

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AndyT wrote:As for those clever cams for holding work, Roy Underhill did a great video about them - start at about seven minutes in.


That's a very clever method of work-holding now that I see it in action, in theory, you could scale this up to work with even larger sections if you wanted. I could see it becoming the next big thing if someone like Veritas or Lie Nielsen made it from fancy aluminium or brass even so that it screwed down to your bench or fitted into a dog hole.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 11 Apr 2021, 11:28

The Carpenters and Joiners Assistant, by James Newlands, 1862 edition.

A rather poorly-looking copy externally (I think most things that are about 160 years old would be, a really tidy copy will set you back hundreds of pounds), but internally it's practically perfect and intact with no loose pages. An even bigger book than the last, 13" tall by 10" wide and 2" thick, it doesn't actually fit on my shelves!

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 11 Apr 2021, 12:20

Another good buy! You'll have seen me post images from an online version before.

Actually, this was one of the books that kindled my interest in older methods of building things. I bought a cheap reproduction copy in a "remaindered books" shop - remember those? - back in the 90s. Published by Studio Editions, printed in Czechoslovakia as it was then. It was the only way to find this sort of book, before the big scanning projects took off when we'd all got web access and were wondering what to do with it.

Anyway, I was able to do enjoy browsing through it, even if I never have needed to build a viaduct or a spiral staircase. I hope you are enjoying it too!
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 11 Apr 2021, 12:36

AndyT wrote:even if I never have needed to build a viaduct...


I've got a job coming along soonish where the information on this subject will be quite invaluable... :lol:

I'm constantly amazed by the knowledge of the people of the time to pull off such feats of engineering and even the more complex woodwork, there are very few people left in this world that could even understand some of the things written in these Victorian books, let alone put it to practice.

Even flicking through my volumes of "Wonders of World Engineering" or "Man and Machine" makes you wonder "Just how the hell did they pull that off with the most basic of tools and a draughting board?".
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 11 Apr 2021, 13:11

Agreed. Reading a few of these books, I often found myself skipping over the chapters on geometry. Some time later, the penny dropped - to do the really demanding work, like that arched headed window which is also circular on plan in plate LXXX, you aren't going to get anywhere if you can't produce the drawings yourself. Producing drawings depends on understanding the geometry. Now, when I walk around a city centre and look at the sort of impressive joinery there is on Victorian banks, hotels or churches, it all makes much more sense and I appreciate the level of skill even more.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Chris101 » 12 Apr 2021, 21:00

I was having a walk with my old man at the weekend down the Darent Valley and my lad (10) was talking to my dad about various shi*e but it strayed onto bridge design. As you do when you are 10 walking down a river. My Dad was telling him about maths and physics being the central proponents for designing shizzle (my lad wants to be 'an architect' or a 'spitfire pilot)'. I'm nudging him one way tbh. Yep Spitfire pilot because that's my main dream job too. No brainer.

Long story short. My Dad's family were on the tools, Clerk of Works etc. Skilled labour. And my Dad surprised me as I was talkining about this complex mathematics in the old woodworking when he said, (vaguely....) Well the woodworkers were the brains, they always went onto be site managers etc. Really? I said. Think about it he said. Ahhh. ok I said. And then later on I did and it did.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 12 Apr 2021, 21:43

I can remember having a chat with a site manager who had been a chippie. He said it was quite a common career path, but put it down to the way that carpenters and joiners were needed (off and on) right through a build. Unlike the bricklayers or plumbers, for example. So they developed a better overview of the project and how the various trades fitted together.

But I guess a good helping of intelligence helps as well!
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 15 Apr 2021, 07:53

Going back to the beginning, I managed to grab another couple copies of the Woodworker pamphlets for the collection, "Softwoods and Colonial Timbers" and "Hardwoods, English and Foreign" by Percy A Wells.

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I also picked up this copy of "Staining and Polishing" in the same lot, but it's by a different publisher but from around the same time-frame.

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 18 Apr 2021, 20:42

The Modern Carpenter and Joiner and Cabinetmaker, by G. Lister Sutcliffe, 1906.

I finally got my hands on a complete 8-volume set of these after a long while of waiting for a set to come up for a reasonable price. Since the books are sought after for the knowledge within by woodworking enthusiasts and also by book art enthusiasts because of the covers being designed by the famous Talwin Morris, they do tend to demand a premium.

There's a staggering amount of information in these on practically every topic you could think of. One thing that does stand out to me about these old books though is just how much of the writings are dedicated to scaffolding of all things. Having never seen wooden scaffolding in my lifetime it never really came to mind that in the old days it was indeed made from wood, to extreme heights, which required quite a lot of skilled labour and thinking to put up without it all coming crashing down.

Something that shocked me when I received them is just how bloody big they are, I always assumed from the photos that they were just average-sized books, but no, they are 13.5" tall, 10" side and 6.5" thick total between all eight volumes. These, like The Carpenters and Joiners Assistant, also do not fit on the shelves :lol:

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 19 Apr 2021, 16:00

Well done Dan, glad you found a decent set. I shan't need to scan the other seven and a half volumes!

I'm a little bit dubious about some of the contents. They were clearly sold on some sort of multiple payments scheme, so subscribers would have been relying on a written description. If it had a checklist of all the topics covered, it would have looked impressive, but some sections - such as the hand tools - are quite superficial, though that's a trick that still works for Reader's Digest and Time-Life!

And the pictures are very impressive for any armchair craftsman. (Meaning me, not you!)

Do you need any design ideas for bigger book cases ? ;)

PS - on wooden scaffolding, I was a bit surprised to see some in use when I visited Reykjavik a few years ago. Iceland has no timber at all (the 9th century settlers cut it all down) so maybe it's a practice they have adopted from nearby Scandinavia.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 03 May 2021, 10:02

Carpentry and Joinery by S.T. Aveling, 1871.

I'm not sure about the date on this one, the preface states 1871 but the book is in absolutely immaculate condition for something that would be 150 years old, surely it must be a later re-print? It's a really nice little book that’s mainly focused on the traditional hand craftsmanship of carpentry and joinery, going into great detail on the tools and how they are used in relation to certain tasks with wonderful illustrations (I know you love stuff like this Andy) to complement the writing. The cover and spine are possibly the most wonderfully detailed I've come across for a woodworking book too!

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 03 May 2021, 11:02

Dan, your collection is continuing to enthral me! What a gem!

It wouldn't surprise me if it had been bought as a gift for some undeserving schoolboy who never opened it. As you say, lovely condition for the date, which is pleasantly early but entirely believable.

I recognise that picture of The Workshop.

Just as magazines recycle content now, so did Victorian book publishers. We used to have a lovely old book at home that my mother found at a jumble sale - "The Boy's Modern Playmate". It was a dictionary sized collection of healthy pastimes for boys, amusingly dressed in old fashioned suits. Alongside the parlour games, sports and groanworthy jokes there was a section on making stuff, including a dog kennel and a steam engine.

You can find it online at the Internet Archive but the scan there is from microfilm and is poor. There's a better version at Google Books here:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... 20playmate


and here are two of the pictures

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I suspect some of the text will match too. Hours of fun for a wet bank holiday!
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby toolsntat » 05 May 2021, 12:22

So, who's bringing what to this week's Benchtalk101 party ? ;)
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 05 May 2021, 20:18

Dan and I could easily fill several hours just from this thread!
I'll see if I can get a word in tomorrow.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 05 May 2021, 20:43

toolsntat wrote:So, who's bringing what to this week's Benchtalk101 party ? ;)
Cheers Andy


I was beginning to wonder if you'd ever show up! :lol:

Much to my own disappointment, I've never been there for a live BenchTalk (Although I have watched/listened to a couple of the Youtube videos that are put up later). As a matter of fact, I've never even tried the whole "Zoom" thing!

AndyT wrote:Dan and I could easily fill several hours just from this thread!
I'll see if I can get a word in tomorrow.


Speak for yourself Andy, I would be very quick and concise about my favorite book, "Success with Biscuit Joiners" by Anthony Bailey.

;)
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby toolsntat » 06 May 2021, 16:59

Well Dan, its quite simple if you want to have a dabble.
Sign up for Zoom
Hit this link near to start time 8.30pm and the gatekeepers will let you in.
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81164688577?p ... JMNXdkQT09

You have the option to be off camera and mute if you prefer....
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 07 May 2021, 07:53

An enjoyable evening! Despite being an interloper among hand tool users :lol:
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 05 Jun 2021, 14:27

The Encyclopaedia of Practical Carpentry and Joinery by Edward Lance Tarbuck, 1859.

I think I'm going to need to get bigger shelves at this rate. Another great nineteenth-century book which is filled to the brim with information and very detailed and beautiful illustrations.

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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 05 Jun 2021, 16:26

Well, that looks much nicer than it did in its eBay listing!

I especially like those Gothic window details from Stapleford Park - how many custom cutters would you need for that lot - or how many weeks with all your moulding planes?!

I see from a quick search that it's in use as a golf and events venue, but in a bizarre omission the promotional photos on the website are mostly of cake, curtains and cushions, and ignore the interesting features entirely!
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Phil Pascoe » 05 Jun 2021, 16:30

AndyT wrote:Agreed. Reading a few of these books, I often found myself skipping over the chapters on geometry. Some time later, the penny dropped - to do the really demanding work, like that arched headed window which is also circular on plan in plate LXXX, you aren't going to get anywhere if you can't produce the drawings yourself. Producing drawings depends on understanding the geometry.


At school at 14 or 15 we were only allowed to make things we could draw properly. That always seemed a sensible restriction to me - if you didn't understand how to draw something properly, you wouldn't understand how to make it properly.
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 05 Jun 2021, 22:13

AndyT wrote:Well, that looks much nicer than it did in its eBay listing!


Yes, I think they took the photos in too bright of a light which can make flaws look worse than they actually are. It's not a perfect book by any means, it is 160-years-old so it's going to have a bit of wear and tear. But the binding is tight and it's all there, just needs gentle handling as with any Victorian-era book.

I hope it wasn't you that I was bidding against! :lol:

Phil Pascoe wrote:At school at 14 or 15 we were only allowed to make things we could draw properly. That always seemed a sensible restriction to me - if you didn't understand how to draw something properly, you wouldn't understand how to make it properly.


Ahah! I've just picked up "Principles of Educational Woodwork" by C.L. Binns and R.E. Marsden from 1929 which is aimed at teachers who are teaching children woodwork in schools.

"Our pupils will already have done something in the way of drawing before entering the manual training rooms, but the drawings will now have an added interest because what is drawn is afterwards to be made. In spite of this added interest, however, boys naturally look upon the drawing lesson as of quite secondary importance compared with the tool-work. Anything, therefore which emphasises the value of understanding thoroughly this "shortest of shorthands" this "universal language" as drawing has been aptly termed, should be taken advantage of. When a few drawings have been made, it may be pointed out how difficult it would be to describe fully in words some of the objects they have drawn."

In other words... "A picture is worth a thousand words" :D
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby AndyT » 18 Jun 2021, 15:40

This arrived today:

IMG_20210618_151114490.jpg
(109.11 KiB)


I think at least one contributor to this thread will recognise it and take the blame for making me buy it... :(

The title that the bookbinder has put on the spine may be different from your copy, Dan, but the title page confirms that it's the same book:

IMG_20210618_151139624.jpg
(624.49 KiB)


I'm pretty sure that back at the time this was published, it was normal for books to be sold unbound. The purchaser would then have them bound, in a style that matched the rest of the books in their library.

That's ok, it's a decent leather binding in good enough condition and I paid about the same as you did.

There's just one problem. The organisation of the book is a bit muddly. There's an attempt at a structure but there are two series of full page plates - the Lines and the Practical Examples. These have their own numbering but no page numbers and whoever bound this copy got confused. It's missing plates 72, 75 and 77. I'm sure this was at the binding stage; there's no evidence of removal afterwards.

You've already helpfully provided pictures of 75 and 77 which I shall print out and insert. Could I ask you to point your camera at plate 72 and upload it?

I'd hate to think there might be some bit of abstruse information that I might really really need some time soon! :D
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Re: Rare and Interesting Woodworking-related Books and Pamph

Postby Trevanion » 18 Jun 2021, 18:00

AndyT wrote:This arrived today:

IMG_20210618_151114490.jpg


I think at least one contributor to this thread will recognise it and take the blame for making me buy it... :(


Ah... Err... Well... :eusa-shifty:

I did see that one, looked to be in nicer condition than mine from the eBay photos.

AndyT wrote:The title that the bookbinder has put on the spine may be different from your copy, Dan, but the title page confirms that it's the same book:

IMG_20210618_151139624.jpg


I'm pretty sure that back at the time this was published, it was normal for books to be sold unbound. The purchaser would then have them bound, in a style that matched the rest of the books in their library.

That's ok, it's a decent leather binding in good enough condition and I paid about the same as you did.


That's interesting, I was wondering why when you're looking at a particular book such as the one you and I have there are so many different bindings and the titles on the spines were different to the actual title of the book, it never occurred to me that they could be supplied unbound.

AndyT wrote:There's just one problem. The organisation of the book is a bit muddly. There's an attempt at a structure but there are two series of full page plates - the Lines and the Practical Examples. These have their own numbering but no page numbers and whoever bound this copy got confused. It's missing plates 72, 75 and 77. I'm sure this was at the binding stage; there's no evidence of removal afterwards.

You've already helpfully provided pictures of 75 and 77 which I shall print out and insert. Could I ask you to point your camera at plate 72 and upload it?

I'd hate to think there might be some bit of abstruse information that I might really really need some time soon! :D


I also found my copy quite difficult to traverse through when trying to refer to the index. I'll get a photograph of plate 72 for uploaded for you later today.
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