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Holtey Hammer

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Holtey Hammer

Postby Custard » 17 May 2021, 12:35

Back in the days when I had a proper job, and could afford rather more in the way of indulgences, I treated myself to a couple of Karl Holtey planes. It seems I've subsequently remained on his mailing lists, even though as an actual furniture maker these days it's of course laughable that I could stretch to such fancy bits of kit!

Anyhow, an email arrived today, promoting a new Holtey "setting" hammer, you know the little thing you might use to tap a plane iron a smidgeon this way or that.

It looks absolutely beautiful. But so it should because it's £760, excluding VAT and delivery.

Now I'm the first to recognise that we're all free to spend our money in whatever manner we choose, and as someone who chooses to hose cash down the toilet with a boat I'm in no position to lecture anyone on profligacy. Furthermore, Mr Holtey isn't price gouging anyone with his products, he doesn't drive a Rolls Royce and I've no doubt there's over £800 of time and materials in each of these hammers.

But I do wonder if this might be a bit of a marketing own goal? Does this reach a point of absurdity, where the benefit is so far outweighed by the cost, that it calls into question the whole edifice of premium tools? Is this a Marie Antoinette moment for woodworking tools?
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby NickM » 17 May 2021, 12:38

There's definitely a phenomenon where people want to buy something solely because it is expensive, but there must be a tipping point. Perhaps you've found it...
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Trevanion » 17 May 2021, 12:39

I’ve been watching Holtey make them on Instagram, he’s actually making a loss on each one which is ridiculous!
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Woodbloke » 17 May 2021, 12:39

I heard about this some time ago and was so impressed I've ordered a pair just to have one as a 'spare' :lol: - Rob

Edit; just had a look at KH's webpage on these tapometers. Very nice; I'll order another just to make sure. Mike G need a couple as well :lol:
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Woodster » 17 May 2021, 14:07

That’s quite interesting. They look nicely made and from good materials. The finished product though looks a bit clumsy to me. I like making tools so if I can come up with a nicer looking version I may knock one up in the future when my Tuit list is a bit smaller.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby AJB Temple » 17 May 2021, 14:18

He will sell them easily enough to plane collectors who want a hammer to match their Holtey plane. It sounds a crazy price but he is not pitching at a price rational market.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Alf » 17 May 2021, 14:38

Somehow it gives off too much of a surgical bone mallet kind of vibe for my peace of mind. Was expecting something prettier, I suppose. Ah well, I shall have to continue to fritter away my millions on other fripperies instead.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby novocaine » 17 May 2021, 14:44

I do like a hammer with a screw threaded face, especially a really course threaded one. even more so, one with no retention. tink tink tink tink bugger the head fell off again.

a squirt of locktight you say, yer that would stop the head coming off........ ever, without a pair of stillies to trash the face for ever more.


no thanks, I'll still with my copper faced hammer (the face falls out of that too, but that's because copper is annoyingly soft)
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby sunnybob » 17 May 2021, 14:57

It'll never replace my 3 lb club hammer :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
Or my 5 lb THOR copper / hide mallet. :eusa-whistle:
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Dr.Al » 17 May 2021, 15:09

sunnybob wrote:It'll never replace my 3 lb club hammer :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
Or my 5 lb THOR copper / hide mallet. :eusa-whistle:


Replace? I thought the idea with buying a new hammer (or any other tool) is to have more, not to replace existing ones :eusa-whistle:
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Sheffield Tony » 17 May 2021, 15:11

Alf wrote:Somehow it gives off too much of a surgical bone mallet kind of vibe for my peace of mind. Was expecting something prettier, I suppose. Ah well, I shall have to continue to fritter away my millions on other fripperies instead.


Is it in part the stainless that lends the surgical look ? I can't say I find it very pretty on the planes either.

Such of my planes as need adjusting by hammer have already been tapped with much less subtle tools, I can't see anything I will do to them will make things much worse.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby sunnybob » 17 May 2021, 15:15

Dr.Al wrote:
sunnybob wrote:It'll never replace my 3 lb club hammer :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
Or my 5 lb THOR copper / hide mallet. :eusa-whistle:


Replace? I thought the idea with buying a new hammer (or any other tool) is to have more, not to replace existing ones :eusa-whistle:


I really dont need any more hammers, I still have 4 hammers from my Dad's collection. I can place them back to the 50's at the very least, more likely the 40's.
But the only hammer I use now is a yellow GRP handled claw hammer.
The THOR and the club are now just used as glue up weights. 8-)
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Argus » 17 May 2021, 15:20

Well...... at those prices for planes and all the other stuff.......... lovely trophies but I'd be reluctant to expose them to the atmosphere.

Do they ever get used? Every day?
Seriously?

On a more mundane note, I'll present an ancient hammer that I've used to tap plane-blocks, blades, wedges etc for many years.

It began life sometime before the War (not sure which one) as a Toffee Hammer. Later it came to my Grannie who used it in the kitchen as a salt-basher.

If you've never seen hard-salt, I'll explain.

Cooking salt in those old days was bought in hard, compacted brick-like loaves - about the same size as a Mother's Pride loaf - it was stored in a big earthenware pot and when it was used you'd bash a bit off the edges. For that she used this old toffee-hammer........ plus a big knife that, as a kid I thought was a bayonet..... it probably was, come to think of it.

Later, this little hammer ended up in my tool-box in its third iteration as a plane-blade tapper..... for which, I'll add, it is ideal. It has the right amount of 'knock-power' without damaging any wood or wedges. I don't use it on any thing bigger than a moulding plane or a small coffin type.... all the others have screw adjustments.

I've added the marking knife to give an idea of scale.

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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Woodster » 17 May 2021, 15:40

I think I have around 30 hammers and don’t really need any more. My last hitting thing was a Thor Dead blow hammer with some alternative heads. I bought it specifically for tapping work down onto parallels on my milling machine. It works much better than my Copper & Hide for this particular job so worth the expense. I should have bought it years ago.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Woodbloke » 17 May 2021, 16:00

The last hammer I bought (or SWIMBO bought me :D ) was a 1kg club hammer which, as it happens, was the perfect weight to knock together a set of very righty-tighty dovetails in the latest project. Apparently, a 1Kg club hammer was also one of the late and very great Alan Peters favourite tools; if it was good enough for AP, 'tis good enough for me.

It seems that CHT have got wind of the benefits of a large and heavy knockometer, having no doubt heard that AP liked them. These ones though, are made in the US and instead of the paltry £12 that SWIMBO paid, one of these jobbies will dent your wallet to the tune of £110 - Rob
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Pete Maddex » 17 May 2021, 19:15

I thought hammers had metal heads and mallets had anything else?

Custard is this you?



I have a brass and nylon one and a small hide mallet that is nice and doesn't mark the plane.

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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Trevanion » 17 May 2021, 23:56

The whole "HOW MUCH!?" argument about these things (Holtey, Sauer and Steiner, Sparks, ETC...) comes and goes on various platforms.

I think it mostly comes down to the fact that while they are indeed a working tool of a very high standard, they are also a work of art and engineering precision, which some will appreciate and others will not understand as "It's just a tool". Now that Karl posts little tidbits on Instagram about his production process, with a minute understanding of metalworking I have been enlightened at just how anal-retentive he is about it, when you're having to have solid carbide cutters specially made for you, you know you're on a totally different level.

I'd love to own a Holtey Plane as a marvel of engineering, but I could never justify one unless I won the lotto.

Back to the setting hammer, he did a talk about it on Benchtalk101 a little while ago.

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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Alf » 18 May 2021, 06:40

Sheffield Tony wrote:
Alf wrote:Somehow it gives off too much of a surgical bone mallet kind of vibe for my peace of mind. Was expecting something prettier, I suppose. Ah well, I shall have to continue to fritter away my millions on other fripperies instead.


Is it in part the stainless that lends the surgical look ? I can't say I find it very pretty on the planes either.

Could be. Might be the head shape too. I dunno, it just immediately came to mind, and usually I can go for decades without ever thinking of surgical bone mallets at all. Thankfully.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Deejay » 18 May 2021, 07:35

NickM wrote:There's definitely a phenomenon where people want to buy something solely because it is expensive, but there must be a tipping point. Perhaps you've found it...


Morning Nick

You're right ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Cheers

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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby NickM » 18 May 2021, 08:04

Deejay wrote:
NickM wrote:There's definitely a phenomenon where people want to buy something solely because it is expensive, but there must be a tipping point. Perhaps you've found it...


Morning Nick

You're right ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Cheers

Dave


Thanks for that. I knew it would have a fancy name!
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Chris152 » 18 May 2021, 09:10

I just had a quick look at the site, beautiful things. I guess it's like people spending lots on watches - you can get a really accurate watch that'll last well enough for a few quid, but people choose according to other factors and often spend an awful lot more for what they consider to be a beautiful object that brings them happiness. I think most of us do that, to varying degrees.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Lurker » 18 May 2021, 12:38

I’m pleased to see Sparks spoken of in the same sentence as hotley et al.
I met Olly not long after he started up and have been following his progress via the annual (until last year) Macmillan open days run by Richard.
It’s good to see young craftsmen thriving.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Woodbloke » 18 May 2021, 13:02

Lurker wrote:I’m pleased to see Sparks spoken of in the same sentence as hotley et al.
I met Olly not long after he started up and have been following his progress via the annual (until last year) Macmillan open days run by Richard.
It’s good to see young craftsmen thriving.

When Derek Jones (late ed of F&C) organised his exhibition/show at the University of East London a couple of years ago, Olly Sparks had a stand there displaying his wares. He and Mrs. S were pleasant folk to have a natter with and close by were Richard Arnold and Philly (with whom I had lunch that day) - Rob
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby Andyp » 18 May 2021, 14:03

Is Ian Dalziel still making planes? Cant find anything recent on tinterweb.
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Re: Holtey Hammer

Postby AJB Temple » 18 May 2021, 14:16

I like the K Holtey planes. I know they are crazy expensive, but they are works of art. If someone gave me one I would be overjoyed.

Can see too that Oliver Sparks makes nice things. However, I wonder what the purpose of some of them is. Pretty much the only things available for sale on his website are Scarab Finger Planes at £510. They look very pretty, but I can't think what I would ever use one for. Even with luthiery work (which I no longer do sadly).

I'm probably more likely to fork out for a Skelton saw, which I know I would use a lot, than a super expensive plane. That said I am trying to make a saw similar to one of his. Had two false starts with unsatisfactory steel so far. Handles are bog oak fro you know who.
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