It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 17:49

Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

This forum is for any general questions, queries or plain old chinwaggery on Woody stuff in general.

Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 17 Oct 2021, 18:37

Today's drama. There I am up some steps, fitting a glazing retaining bar to an oak frame, for a narrow glazing panel, about 9" high above double doors - so two parallel lumps of oak that far apart.

The retaining piece in oak was being glued and screwed to the frame above the top of the doors and space was tight. However, I managed to get the impact driver in to drive the Reisser screws into the oak, but as often happens, the screw did not drive down fully the first time and I had to back it off to drive it in again far enough.

Put the impact gun into reverse, to pull the screw out. Still had the finger of my left hand on the top of the gun just guiding the tool in the confined space. Boy did that screw come out fast. :o Shoved my finger straight into the oak above and squashed it good and proper. I now have a black finger. :oops:

Really hurt. Had to grin and bear it and drive the screw down again to free my finger.

I've mentioned before, I really hate wood.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Pete Maddex » 17 Oct 2021, 19:20

Ouch!

Pete
Let them eat static


Flickr
User avatar
Pete Maddex
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 893
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 12:41
Location: nottingham
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby NickM » 17 Oct 2021, 19:23

Yikes. Hope it’s not too sore.
NickM
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 905
Joined: 08 Dec 2020, 10:13
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Doug » 17 Oct 2021, 19:28

Another reason I don’t like impact drivers. I had one jump whilst putting in a screw the pozi bit went straight through the fleshy part of my index finger that was when I gave mine to a mate & stuck to standard drill drivers ever since. Never had a problem with a drill driver like that in 25 years of using them plus they eat bits regardless of whether you buy expensive impact driver bits plus the noise is so annoying to boot.
User avatar
Doug
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2151
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:22
Location: @dougsworkshop
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2021, 19:40

Sorry to hear that Adrian,
do you wax your screws before driving them home. A couple of swipes on an old candle does for me.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11717
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 17 Oct 2021, 19:47

Yes Andy, kind of. I dip the tips of them into a jar of vaseline I keep for the purpose.

Thanks guys. I can't understand how accident stuff just happens to me. It's always something totally dumb. Today, as I am dieting and doing stupid amount of exercise, I was "on amber" and probably rushing a bit to get some lunch.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Mike G » 17 Oct 2021, 20:12

AJB Temple wrote:..... I can't understand how accident stuff just happens to me......


It doesn't, and that is a fact. Just as we pick which joints we show on the forum and which we don't....... ;)
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby PAC1 » 17 Oct 2021, 21:03

Adrian, I hope you recover quickly. It is not just you. As an example I drilled my pinky on Friday. I have a nice half round cut complete with Brad point. Completely stupid and predictable. But I did it anyway.
PAC1
Sapling
 
Posts: 430
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:52
Name: Peter

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Mike G » 17 Oct 2021, 21:41

PAC1 wrote:..........I drilled my pinky on Friday.......


Why did you do that? You must have known it was going to hurt. ;) :D
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 17 Oct 2021, 21:42

ooh, that sounds painful too :o

It's funny, we all try to be safety conscious. I've become more aware that after a full day of fairly physical work, things go wrong more readily. I've learnt to stop now, whereas in the past I would have pushed on.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby PAC1 » 18 Oct 2021, 07:02

Mike G wrote:
PAC1 wrote:..........I drilled my pinky on Friday.......


Why did you do that? You must have known it was going to hurt. ;) :D

I thought my hand was far enough away. It was 1mm too close.
PAC1
Sapling
 
Posts: 430
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:52
Name: Peter

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby clogs » 18 Oct 2021, 07:30

as for posi drive screws, pls move on to the Torx style.....1000% better.....and the bits last longer....

I'm now quite old......after a couple of close call with machinery....
I now stop if I'm getting over tired, put the tools away, recharge the battery gear and sweep up....
Still tired, I just gave up forcing it now and get a siesta....

live to fight another day....
clogs
Sapling
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 07:18
Location: Crete, Greece
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Oct 2021, 10:15

clogs wrote:as for posi drive screws, pls move on to the Torx style.....1000% better.....and the bits last longer....

I'm now quite old......after a couple of close call with machinery....
I now stop if I'm getting over tired, put the tools away, recharge the battery gear and sweep up....
Still tired, I just gave up forcing it now and get a siesta....

live to fight another day....


:text-+1: :text-+1:
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7208
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby chataigner » 18 Oct 2021, 10:48

Another vote for Torx screws - so much easier to use - even quite tolerant of a misaligned screwdriver.
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby RogerS » 18 Oct 2021, 11:35

I've got a Milwaukee 18v drill. The torque is off the scale. I was drilling a large hole in some wood. Te bit jammed in the wood. Every force as an action and a reaction. The torque instantly spun the drill back crushing the back of my hand against the sharp edge of the door jamb. "Oh bother" said I.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13290
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 18 Oct 2021, 11:41

Yes, Torx have pros and cons. I do use them but they were unsuitable for this application. Torx only work if you can get the bit in a dead straight line with the screw. In this case I was working in a confined space and with the length of the screw + bit+ driver I would have struggled, whereas with cross head they would tolerate a bit of an angle. It was when I got the tool in fully vertical that I had the finger squeeze issue.

I also find that for deep screws of (claimed) non-reactive screws into a high tannin material such as oak (I only really use oak) the best engagement is with flanged, hex head bolt style. Timberfix for instance. I tend to sink these below the surface and plug them with oak. When timber framing I do use Timberfix sometimes, mainly for securing things temporarily in place prior to final pegging.

My experience of torx head self cutters into oak, is that once you get into much above 70mm the bits tend to strip out, even with the more gentle oil based driver (Milwaukee in my case) and a moderate drive setting. Totally fine with smaller sizes or a pilot hole.

If I'm doing showy work, I usually drive in with a cross head, then remove it and replace with a good quality slotted screw. Just think they look better.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby RogerS » 18 Oct 2021, 11:44

AJB Temple wrote:Yes, Torx have pros and cons. I do use them but they were unsuitable for this application. Torx only work if you can get the bit in a dead straight line with the screw. ....


That's fascinating as I find the complete opposite. I've slung out all my Pozidrive stuff.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13290
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Jonathan » 18 Oct 2021, 14:02

Big screws torx
Small screws PZ1 and PZ2

Just done a job and used 10,000 4x50 torx Heads...... every other screw I put in had problems getting the torx bit out of the screw head.
Only reason I went with torx is I can't buy Heco or Spax power cut screws in PZ2.

Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk
Jonathan
Sapling
 
Posts: 294
Joined: 26 Jul 2017, 06:44
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Woodbloke » 19 Oct 2021, 08:13

chataigner wrote:Another vote for Torx screws - so much easier to use - even quite tolerant of a misaligned screwdriver.

Same here; I've got a load of Pozi No.2's that I'm steadily ploughing through, but once they're gone I won't replace them - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5866
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 19 Oct 2021, 10:27

I'm surprised chaps I must admit. My experience of Torx has quite often been that either the bit strips (they are usually supplied in the box with the screws) or gets stuck fast in the screw, whenever I need to use a lot of torque.

I have both the Milwaukee impact driver and the oil variant, along with the 18V drill. When I need to use the higher drive settings is when I get problems with Torx.

There seems to be a Torx variant out there as well. Had to replace the battery on our ageing Audi Q7 recently. Helpfully, Audi have placed this underneath the passenger seat, so you have to pretty much disassemble the car to get to it. :o The seat rails, and rail carriers, use hefty bolts that look like Torx but have more splines. Hence I had to go out and buy a set of tools just to do this job.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Dr.Al » 19 Oct 2021, 10:51

Woodbloke wrote:
chataigner wrote:Another vote for Torx screws - so much easier to use - even quite tolerant of a misaligned screwdriver.

Same here; I've got a load of Pozi No.2's that I'm steadily ploughing through, but once they're gone I won't replace them - Rob


Me too, although if I've got a job that needs a lot of screws and all I have is PZ2s, I tend to just bite the bullet, buy the Tx ones and chuck the PZ ones out. If I just need one or two screws in a particular size then I grudgingly reach for the PZ ones. I've never had a problem putting a Torx screw in or removing it and I've rarely not had a problem with PZ ones!

Of course either PZ or Tx or Allen key is better than PH (either JIS or otherwise)!
My projects website: https://www.cgtk.co.uk
User avatar
Dr.Al
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1964
Joined: 31 Dec 2020, 10:11
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire
Name: Al

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby AJB Temple » 19 Oct 2021, 11:30

OK then! I'll have another try with Torx :D

I've tended to buy trade packs of Reisser, but Torx that I can get round here or readily on-line at a sensible price are few and far between. Amazon mostly lists Pozi when I put Torx in the search. I buy in boxes of at least a couple of hundred and don't want to spend more than I would on Reisser or Forgefix.

Mind you, I've nearly finished my building and the next job will be oak book shelves and a utility room fit out, so that won't need much action from the very dangerous impact driver.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5431
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Andyp » 19 Oct 2021, 12:09

Surely if a screw needs so much torque to drive home then the pilot hole is too small. Or am I missing something?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11717
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Dr.Al » 19 Oct 2021, 12:20

AJB Temple wrote:OK then! I'll have another try with Torx :D

I've tended to buy trade packs of Reisser, but Torx that I can get round here or readily on-line at a sensible price are few and far between. Amazon mostly lists Pozi when I put Torx in the search. I buy in boxes of at least a couple of hundred and don't want to spend more than I would on Reisser or Forgefix.

Mind you, I've nearly finished my building and the next job will be oak book shelves and a utility room fit out, so that won't need much action from the very dangerous impact driver.


One thing I have found with Torx screws is that some screws come with a Torx bit in the box. That Torx bit should go straight into the metal recycling bin: they're usually awful.
My projects website: https://www.cgtk.co.uk
User avatar
Dr.Al
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1964
Joined: 31 Dec 2020, 10:11
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire
Name: Al

Re: Accident prone Adrian strikes again :-)

Postby Woodbloke » 19 Oct 2021, 12:23

AJB Temple wrote:I'm surprised chaps I must admit. My experience of Torx has quite often been that either the bit strips (they are usually supplied in the box with the screws) or gets stuck fast in the screw, whenever I need to use a lot of torque.

I have both the Milwaukee impact driver and the oil variant, along with the 18V drill. When I need to use the higher drive settings is when I get problems with Torx.

There seems to be a Torx variant out there as well. Had to replace the battery on our ageing Audi Q7 recently. Helpfully, Audi have placed this underneath the passenger seat, so you have to pretty much disassemble the car to get to it. :o The seat rails, and rail carriers, use hefty bolts that look like Torx but have more splines. Hence I had to go out and buy a set of tools just to do this job.

My feeling here Adrian is that you're going at it with a little too much 'gusto'. I've never had a Torx bit strip though I have had a stainless head snap off on numerous occasions. In oak and other hard woods, I always, but always drill a respectable pilot hole and dunk (as you do) the threaded portion in a goodly dollop of Vaseline. That said, after a while (and it's fair few screws) the Torx bit needs to be replaced as the splines become a bit worn and twisted, but it's nowhere near the regularity of replacing poxy Pozidrive No.2 bits - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5866
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name:

Next

Return to General Woodworking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests