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Gluing Oily Timbers

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Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby Trevanion » 26 May 2022, 20:40

So I potentially have a pair of quite large entrance gates to make from Iroko, very heavy construction with a fair span of 2.9m or so per gate. Typically, with Iroko I've used standard Polyurethane glues without much issue (though I have heard of a few cases where adhesion using PU with Iroko hasn't been brilliant) but with something of this calibre that's exposed to as much weather as it will, combined with the weight I want something that's pretty much the be-all-end-all.

I've read about Phenol-Resorcinol glues which are typically used in boat building as a durable, waterproof glue that bonds oily timbers like teak very well. It's not cheap but I don't mind paying if it works very well. Another contender seems to be Epoxy Resin, which I have a little experience with but mostly from sticking non-wooden things to wood rather than wood to wood.

Just curious if the hivemind has any experience or input.
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby AJB Temple » 26 May 2022, 21:30

When I made ours (about 5m total span) I used cascamite (original) and protected the joints as much as possible with sloping shoulders etc. This was based on making kitchen worktops years before out of both teak and iroko using cascamite. Totally problem free but that was before the mucked about with the formula.

The gates I made about 6 years ago. One has developed a vey slight twist of about 1cm.
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby droogs » 26 May 2022, 21:31

PU and a good wipe of acetone to clean up the faces just before applying the glue is all I've ever needed.
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 26 May 2022, 21:34

I've edge-glued a fair bit of teak, for two settles, a table, a fireplace, yada, yada..In each case I found a plain old white spirits 'tack rag', well soused in the stuff, and a wipe off 20 seconds later with a clean dry rag laid the ground for plain old P.V.A.. The settles survived 20 years of family abuse, like wise the table.

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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby TomTrees » 26 May 2022, 23:43

Here's something which you might find interesting, quite controversial.
I haven't read it, just got the jist of it from the OLF

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui ... sequence=1


Or a link to a link if you prefer
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/vie ... il#p620357
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby Mike Jordan » 27 May 2022, 08:20

I have confidence in the epoxy glues and use them for all work involving oily timbers. In past years I have used the original cascamite and also a small number of successful experiments with PU. I think the idea of wiping away the surface oil with any sort of solvent is not sensible, most are highly flammable or have serious health hazards from inhalation or absorbing through the skin. It seems to me most improbable that any appreciable amount of oil can be removed in this way.
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby Mike G » 27 May 2022, 08:22

Personally I'd stay clear of epoxy. It's rock hard, and I'm not sure I'd want that when dealing with something large and flexible. Resorcinol is something I haven't used, but I've seen used on a lot of boat-building channels. If it's good enough for a boat, then I'd suggest it's probably good enough for a gate.

Are you pegging the joints?
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby Raymedullary » 27 May 2022, 09:39

Yes as has been said, RF is the go to boatbuilding adhesive. It will stick teak perfectly and I certainly never, in a few years of wooden yacht joinery, saw it fail. Iroko is a teak substitute but a fair bit less oily so it will be fine. It used to be said to wipe teak with meths before gluing but I doubt that has much benefit.
The only slight annoyance with RF is the pretty much inevitable red glue line.
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Re: Gluing Oily Timbers

Postby Trevanion » 29 May 2022, 22:40

Thanks fellas, I did expect some wildly different opinions :lol:

I did actually do a test with an offcut of Iroko (end grain to long grain) shortly after this post, just to see how well the Polyurethane glue did bond and to see whether I was just being paranoid. After about an hour of curing I gave it a whack with a hammer to see what would happen, it did take a fair whack to break it off.

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I was surprised to see that amount of grain torn off, perhaps I am being paranoid about the effectiveness of PU glue on Iroko, it's certainly a lot cheaper than resorcinol!

Mike G wrote:Are you pegging the joints?


More than likely, it's a bit of extra insurance.
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