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Look what I’ve been given.

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Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 01 Aug 2022, 07:01

Do you know what it is? :)
About 6” long.
I would like to prepare two of these pieces as pen blanks as a gift back to the donor. I would also like to include a Celtic knot in the design which would require the blanks to be perfectly square in cross section.

How do I go about making those pieces square?

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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Blackswanwood » 01 Aug 2022, 07:06

Is it Bog Oak Andy?
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Doug » 01 Aug 2022, 07:08

Is it bog oak Andy?

I’ve been given a huge chunk someone was throwing away, some hand planing will soon have your pieces square.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 01 Aug 2022, 07:19

Nope to you both.
It’s ebony. At least 50 years old. The original “log” was bought back from Africa by the father of one of my wife’s uncle.

I am trying to imagine if I can make some sort of sled to hold those irregular shapes as I pass it through the bandsaw. Planing to me will leave me with a lot of shaving and no usable pieces. If I can saw it square I might have enough small offcuts to use for other things, accents of some sort for example.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Doug » 01 Aug 2022, 07:33

Seems a lot of trouble making a sled & I doubt you’ll save any timber, if you don’t fancy too much planing just plane one side flat then free hand it through the bandsaw.

Nice haul btw.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Woodbloke » 01 Aug 2022, 08:04

Andyp wrote:I am trying to imagine if I can make some sort of sled to hold those irregular shapes as I pass it through the bandsaw. Planing to me will leave me with a lot of shaving and no usable pieces. If I can saw it square I might have enough small offcuts to use for other things, accents of some sort for example.


No need for a sled Andy, use a white pencil to mark a line and pass them through and then hand plane a datum edge. If you were using a tablesaur you'd defo need to make a sled but you'd be fine with the Euro - Rob
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 01 Aug 2022, 08:19

Duly noted all, thanks.
I have an invite for a visit to the donor's workshop in October, he is an amateur horologist :shock:
I hate deadlines but I better get my act together for this one.

I have been reading a bit about pen turning ebony. It appears that excess heat will drilling the holes for the tubes can cause cracking. Advice appears to be go slow, very slow.

Anyone here turned a pen with ebony?
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 01 Aug 2022, 08:20

Andyp wrote:Duly noted all, thanks.
I have an invite for a visit to the donor's workshop in October, he is an amateur horologist :shock:
I hate deadlines but I better get my act together for this one.

I have been reading a bit about pen turning ebony. It appears that excess heat will drilling the holes for the tubes can cause cracking. Advice appears to be go slow, very slow.

Anyone here turned a pen with ebony?


I am hoping to get two pens out of those larger pieces.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Woodbloke » 01 Aug 2022, 08:31

Andyp wrote:I have been reading a bit about pen turning ebony. It appears that excess heat will drilling the holes for the tubes can cause cracking. Advice appears to be go slow, very slow.

Anyone here turned a pen with ebony?


No pen turning, but a lot of the accent details on my work is done with Ebony or some other black timber; African Blackwood is a favourite but it's even harder than Ebony. You'll find Ebony is good to work with if you take it steady and don't rush it. Bog Oak is also good but it's a bit too coarse for fine detailed work - Rob
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Malc2098 » 01 Aug 2022, 09:07

Don't forget to save the dust. Great for mixing with glue to maintain the colour when gap filling.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Lons » 01 Aug 2022, 10:22

A nice gift Andy and well deserves your efforts to reward him with a couple of pens.

Just a couple of thoughts. The blank doesn't need to be absolutely square to get a good Celtic cross design though far easier if it is or it can be lopsided, the important issue is to get the hole for the pen tube dead centre, do that and the design will be right. I'd suggest you have a look on penturners.co.uk as there have been a number of threads on that and I think there's a sticky as well, I'll have a look when I get the chance. I've made quite a fnumber and only had a couple that I wasn't happy with, it looks a lot more difficult than it is. I made up a very simple jig from scrap to cut the angles on the bandsaw and think the forum is where i got the design. Some of the guys use a table saw and theres no reason why hand tools can't be used with care.

As far as the material for the cross, I'd suggest you don't use a light wood as when sanding, the ebony dust will completely spoil it, I'd suggest an alternative such as thin sheet aluminium (beer can), copper or brass sheet or plastic, old credit cards give a good result and you can laminate materials to give a different look, best to use epoxy for those materials imo. If you must use contrasting wood then you need to use some different finishing tactics to seal that before the dust spoils it.
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EDIT
Look here Andy http://www.penturners.co.uk/misc/tutorials.php
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby AJB Temple » 01 Aug 2022, 11:13

Interesting Andy. Looks like it has the odd worm hole? Will be interested to see what it looks like when sawn or planed. Quite hard to tell the size, but personally I would stick them in the vice and hand plane small pieces like that with a very sharp plane.

I've worked quite a lot of Madagascan ebony and in my younger days when making guitar necks and fretboards for other people, produced a lot of fine ebony dust from doing the fret slots. I still have quite a few planks of it. It's quite irritating stuff, so take care Andy, but I am asthmatic and wasn't so careful about dust inhalation back then. Ebony is vary variable - some of it is jet black and some can be quite brown and inconsistent in hardness but still quite tough on tools. Scrapes to a fine finish and will polish to a super smooth glassy finish with a bit of work. You might have enough there to make a set of black chess pieces?
Last edited by AJB Temple on 01 Aug 2022, 11:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby droogs » 01 Aug 2022, 11:41

Make 2 small V blocks from mdf to stick to a cover that can slide on the BS fence and then hot glue the ebony to the V blocks. Give them a quick clean with acetone to help the hot glue stick first.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Doug » 01 Aug 2022, 12:32

Lons wrote:
EDIT
Look here Andy http://www.penturners.co.uk/misc/tutorials.php


Blimey :shock: that’s a blast from the past Bob, I’d forgotten I’d done that for Jim :?
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 01 Aug 2022, 14:39

I have no worries about making the knot I have done several.:-

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3938&p=59548&hilit=Celtic#p59548


I have always started with a square blank held in the lathe with the drill in the tail stock slowly wound in thereby insuring the hole is in the centre of the blank.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Woodster » 01 Aug 2022, 16:05

Dealing with small bits of timber can be quite awkward at times. As I also shape metal I’ve recently machined small pieces of wood flat in my milling machine. I guess the woodworkers equivalent would be something like an overhead router? If I didn’t have the mill I’d knock up some form of guide and use an ordinary router. I’ve used this method before on plastics and wood.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Lons » 01 Aug 2022, 22:41

Doug wrote:
Lons wrote:
EDIT
Look here Andy http://www.penturners.co.uk/misc/tutorials.php


Blimey :shock: that’s a blast from the past Bob, I’d forgotten I’d done that for Jim :?


:lol: :lol: I'd forgotten it was you who did it Doug. I'ts a number of years since I bumped into Jim at Harrogate show.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Lons » 01 Aug 2022, 22:47

Andyp wrote:I have no worries about making the knot I have done several.:-


I wasn't aware you're experienced Andy, my apology for trying to teach granny to suck eggs. :lol:

As an aside, copper sheet can look very nice indeed with dark wood as it's a bit more subtle than brass, offcuts of plumbing pipe split and annealed works very well and cuts and drills easily, you can also solder thin sheet to make up thickness, a lot more reliable than glue.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 02 Aug 2022, 07:04

Thanks Bob. I’ve got two threads running on this now..oops.

Since found out that a log of ebony about 1m long was bought back from either Gabon or the Ivory Coast in the early 60s. The father of the the chap who gave me the pieces was a captain in the merchant navy. He cut the log into 3 pieces, one each for his sons. What I was given is what was left after a a chess set had been made.
No pressure on me then.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 11 Aug 2022, 16:37

I had read that drilling ebony pen blanks could cause cracking.

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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby droogs » 12 Aug 2022, 10:39

Bit of a bummer that. You could try cleaning out with acetone and then some runny CA and a very tight wrap of tape
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby Andyp » 12 Aug 2022, 14:44

droogs wrote:Bit of a bummer that. You could try cleaning out with acetone and then some runny CA and a very tight wrap of tape


You are probably right Alan and with the added glue surface of the pen tube holding it together from the inside it might just hold together. This was one of two that deteriorated while drilling the other one had a blow out just as the drill bit was nearing the end of the hole. I drill with the lathe at its slowest speed and advanced the bit just ¼” at a time, withdrawing and cleaning at each increment.
I have managed to make enough blanks for two pens but ebony is fast becoming my least favourite wood. It is so brittle. Maybe it is overly dry? It has been stored for over 60 years.

I decided not to risk further problems by including any form of Celtic knot. Defo a wood for KISS.

The first pen is on the lathe and the finish even at 320 grit is beautiful and it is very black.

Any thoughts on how to finish? My go to for for pens of late has been diluted sanding sealer, melamine lacquer, microcrystalline wax. I do not have enough for the luxury of experimentation so I would like to get this right first time.
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Re: Look what I’ve been given.

Postby droogs » 12 Aug 2022, 15:28

I would just use a very thin sealer followed by carnuba/beeswax mix buffed on the lathe with a soft cloth
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