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Woke terminology hits woodwork

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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Phil Pascoe » 25 Jun 2022, 21:07

btw - the OED and others record common usage, not necessarily correct usage.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Jun 2022, 22:01

MattS wrote:
Andy Kev. wrote:I really can’t believe you’ve written that, the word in question really does not show a large vocabulary. There’s lots more is like to say that the mods rightly wouldn’t be happy with.


Hmmm. No one can establish vocabulary from use of a single word or a few words surely?

Someone of average IQ (100) or below, may have a vocabulary in the range of 2000 to 3000 words. This is likely to include most words in common usage. A very well educated person may have 30,000. That is a huge range.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Andy Kev. » 25 Jun 2022, 22:12

Phil Pascoe wrote:btw - the OED and others record common usage, not necessarily correct usage.


Then you have to define what you mean by "correct".

I think what you're getting at is "acceptable" usage. The OED and indeed any other dictionary does actually indicate this by putting in brackets notes like vulg. obs. etc.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Vann » 25 Jun 2022, 22:38

Andy Kev. wrote:...Remember the Vietnamese girl who got the skin burned off her back by a napalm strike? One of her names was Phuc...


That's one image I'll not forget.

On a similar vein, Peter Jackson (of "Lord of the Rings" film fame) is making a remake of "The Dam Busters" or at least was making a remake. He has had a number of non-flying Lancasters made as props - but there does not appear to have been progress for a good ten - twelve years and the props are in storage.

We're not privilege to the reason for the delay, but about the time progress appeared to stop there was controversy over the name of wing commander Gibson's dog. The dog was black and it's 6-letter name started with "N".

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel, but I know it's wrong to change the name as it's a historical fact - just as with young Phuc. The dog's name in that circumstance is obviously not an insult - although modern sensibilities (including mine) will likely result in some unease.

What to do?

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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby RogerS » 25 Jun 2022, 22:42

I agree with both you, Vann and Andy Kev. The fact that people cannot understand context and rationalise from that before jumping on their bandwagon is very depressing. All I can say is that I'm bloody glad that I have lived when I did.

A lot of people need to lookup (and understand) cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Andy Kev. » 25 Jun 2022, 22:58

Vann,

the dog's name was indeed deemed a big problem. Was it Stephen Fry who got the job of writing the script? He decided to change the dog's name.

The problem is that because the dog was hit and killed by a car very shortly before the raid, Guy Gibson decided to honour it by using its name as the codeword for a successful breaching of (I think) the Moehne Dam.

To change the name is to insult the intelligence of all viewers of the film, irrespective of their ethnicity, as it implies that the film makers believe that they can't cope with the realities of history. It seems a bit weird that we're supposed to be capable of dealing with the horrors shown in, say, Schindler's List and of course we are, yet we cannot cope with the notion that the conventions governing the naming of pets was not the same in the past as it is now. It's also worth remembering that films like Amistad have been made (which I found to be one of the most gut wrenching films I've ever seen) but I needed to know the reality so as to understand the history involved.

IMO the bottom line is: we're not children, we can cope with history.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Boringgeoff » 26 Jun 2022, 03:12

There are plenty of examples of innocent or deliberate misinterpretation of words. On the farm, a ballcock used to regulate water flow to a tank or trough, would sometimes raise a smirk from the unaware. One of my relative's surname is Dick, her daughter-in-law refused to take that name or allow their kids to have it, the stupid woman, in my opinion, only drew attention to the name by her actions.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Vann » 26 Jun 2022, 04:18

RogerS wrote:...All I can say is that I'm bloody glad that I have lived when I did...


"did" Roger? That's past tense. Is there something you haven't told us? And what's it like up there? :mrgreen:

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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby RogerS » 26 Jun 2022, 06:03

Vann wrote:
RogerS wrote:...All I can say is that I'm bloody glad that I have lived when I did...


"did" Roger? That's past tense. Is there something you haven't told us? And what's it like up there? :mrgreen:

Cheers, Vann.


Dunno, mate...but it's currently Hell down here with TOAS.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 26 Jun 2022, 11:28

Remember the Vietnamese girl who got the skin burned off her back by a napalm strike? One of her names was Phuc


I once taught a Hong Kong-based lad called ****** Fok. In those days, 1980's, up to A level was "surname only" in addressing an individual pupil. There was an initial frisson of amusement among the unwashed when you called the register, but it soon wore off after a couple of class question sessions, especially if you kept a dead-pan expression.

It strikes me that a lot of "politically correct" individuals and statements issued by them, which are then aggressively pursued by them is simple self-aggrandisement. That is, they gain notice, position and reputation by yelling long, hard and loud over something many people regard as inconsequential. (N.B. I am not for a moment saying that we should not draw attention to unresolved injustices for example, where proof exists, but is just neglected). Trumpworld...sorry, politics, I will wash my virtual mouth out with soap... is an ad nauseam example of this, but there are other, less consequential, even amusing, examples.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Phil Pascoe » 26 Jun 2022, 14:09

The only two boys called by their forenames when I was at school were two brothers called Saravanamuttu.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Blackswanwood » 26 Jun 2022, 18:19

Phil Pascoe wrote:The only two boys called by their forenames when I was at school were two brothers called Saravanamuttu.


Why was that?
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Phil Pascoe » 26 Jun 2022, 18:22

I suppose masters had a problem pronouncing the surname.
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Blackswanwood » 26 Jun 2022, 19:21

Phil Pascoe wrote:I suppose masters had a problem pronouncing the surname.


Shame they didn’t ask for some help from the boys concerned as to how to pronounce it so they could have been treated the same as everyone else. Hope that doesn’t make me woke!
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Andyp » 26 Jun 2022, 20:04

A favourite saying of my father “you can call me anything you want but don’t call me late for dinner.” :)
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Re: Woke terminology hits woodwork

Postby Andyp » 27 Jun 2022, 12:39

Folks due to a number of member complaints the mod team have decided that this thread has run it course and it is time we locked it.There is far to much good going on around this forum to risk upsetting folks with some polarising opinions.
We all owe it to ourselves and others to keep some of our thoughts on certain subjects to ourselves.
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