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Edge Planing Help

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Woodbloke » 24 Jan 2021, 00:11

TrimTheKing wrote:Rob/Doc - I’m going to go against your view here because I use a LV BU Jack and BU Block and I assure you that I use a camber on the blades in both with great success...


This has always perplexed me. Take a BU blade and put a small camber on it and it will be curved if you hold it perpendicular to your face; then tip it backwards by 78deg (the blade is now at 12deg to the horizontal) and the curve will disappear so the blade will be effectively 'flat' and this is what the wood will see.

You can demonstrate this more effectively by doing the same exercise with a circular dinner plate which obviously has a huge semi-circular camber (ie; the rim). Hold it in front of your face and you'll see a circle; tip it back to almost flat (12deg) and the circle diminishes to to a very slight curve, so if you wanted to have an effective camber (as you might on a BD blade) on a BU blade you'd need to have a curve which is nearly semi-circular! :lol: - Rob
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Mike G » 24 Jan 2021, 08:10

There's camber and there's camber. My only bevel up planes are my two block planes, and whilst the geometry that Rod describes so well means putting on a sweeping camber is pretty pointless, I still relieve the corners so that they are less likely to dig in and cause tramlines.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Woodbloke » 24 Jan 2021, 09:30

Mike G wrote: I still relieve the corners so that they are less likely to dig in and cause tramlines.

...as I do Mike and if you keep the blades flat, it's the only thing you really need to do - Rob
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 24 Jan 2021, 12:46

Mark said:

"Charlesworth’s method of a piece of plastic from a coke/milk bottle to raise the other side. "


Sorry, what? I thought I had come across most of D.C.'s "wheezes".

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby novocaine » 24 Jan 2021, 12:54

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:Mark said:

"Charlesworth’s method of a piece of plastic from a coke/milk bottle to raise the other side. "


Sorry, what? I thought I had come across most of D.C.'s "wheezes".

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby TrimTheKing » 24 Jan 2021, 13:11

novocaine wrote:Its like the ruler trick for chisels.


The ruler trick is NOT for chisels as DC is at great pains to repeat in all his videos, only for plane blades. But yes you’re right it’s the same principle.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby TrimTheKing » 24 Jan 2021, 13:15

These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby novocaine » 24 Jan 2021, 13:19

Sorry, my mistake and most like because it isnt something i bother doing for chisels or for planes blades, considering it wholly unneeded and just another step invented by someone with more interest in sharpening than in actually making something.
I know St. Paul recommends it too.

I did add it to my sharpening for a while, but couldn't see any benefit over hand sharpening.

But let's not do a sharpening thread, oh please lets not do a sharpening thread.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby TrimTheKing » 24 Jan 2021, 13:21

novocaine wrote:Sorry, my mistake and most like because it isnt something i bother doing for chisels or for planes blades, considering it wholly unneeded and just another step invented by someone with more interest in sharpening than in actually making something.
I know St. Paul recommends it too.

I did add it to my sharpening for a while, but couldn't see any benefit over hand sharpening.

But let's not do a sharpening thread, oh please lets not do a sharpening thread.


No I agree, I don’t do it either, just clarifying DC’s oft repeated mantra. I should have put a :) after it as it was meant as a funny not a rebuke. :D

I have no issue with sharpening threads per se, because for people who are new to it they can help. It’s up to us, the contributors, to make sure they don’t go awry.

But in general I agree, we won’t be going down that route.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby novocaine » 24 Jan 2021, 13:24

Think mine might have been missing a few emojis too Mark. All meant in the best possible taste. :obscene-drinkingbuddies:
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby 9fingers » 24 Jan 2021, 13:29

Seeing all this angst over just one type of hand tool makes me grateful that I'm primarily a wood machinist and not having to worry about planes other than where I put it last when I need to prop the workshop door open on a summer day :lol:

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Dr.Al » 24 Jan 2021, 18:18

TrimTheKing wrote:These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.


Thanks Mark - I'll watch them sometime in the next day or two. I have to be in the right frame of mind to sit down in front of youtube videos.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby TrimTheKing » 24 Jan 2021, 18:19

No worries. They’re not long, 10-15 mins each,
So not onerous.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Woodbloke » 24 Jan 2021, 19:31

Dr.Al wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.


Thanks Mark - I'll watch them sometime in the next day or two. I have to be in the right frame of mind to sit down in front of youtube videos.

I haven't look at the clips but if Mark's recommended them, they'll be up to snuff. If you choose to go down the cambered plane road, more power to your elbow; I would counsel though not to camber the blade you use on your shooting board. If you have a few spare planes loafing around (most of us do, except Mike :lol: ) use one (a No.5 or 6) as a dedicated shooting board plane - Rob
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 24 Jan 2021, 22:22

Thanks Mark and Dave, gotcha now.

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby TrimTheKing » 24 Jan 2021, 22:23

Woodbloke wrote:
Dr.Al wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.


Thanks Mark - I'll watch them sometime in the next day or two. I have to be in the right frame of mind to sit down in front of youtube videos.

I haven't look at the clips but if Mark's recommended them, they'll be up to snuff. If you choose to go down the cambered plane road, more power to your elbow; I would counsel though not to camber the blade you use on your shooting board. If you have a few spare planes loafing around (most of us do, except Mike :lol: ) use one (a No.5 or 6) as a dedicated shooting board plane - Rob


I do agree with that Rob, it’s possible to do it with a cambered blade but means shimming up the plane which if you’re doing more than the odd board is a faff so a straight blade is absolutely the way to go.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Custard » 29 Jan 2021, 20:18

I will sometimes use a cambered blade on a shooting board, but it does require a bit of preparation. Basically you have to ensure that the apex of the camber is aligned with the very centre of the workpiece. Just plonking a cambered iron plane on the shooting board and shuttling it back and forth won't work too well.

Having said that, using a non cambered iron on a shooting board (which I also do) isn't totally straightforward either, you have to use the lateral lever to ensure the iron is plumb.

Bottom line, both types of iron can deliver perfectly acceptable results.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby RogerS » 29 Jan 2021, 22:41

9fingers wrote:Seeing all this angst over just one type of hand tool makes me grateful that I'm primarily a wood machinist and not having to worry about planes other than where I put it last when I need to prop the workshop door open on a summer day :lol:

Bob


:text-+1: Amen to that ! :D
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby MY63 » 08 Feb 2021, 20:28

I was not sure if this was the best place to ask but it has been such a good read this afternoon.
My son and I are going to make a box together as I was reading this I thought we are definately going to use a hand plane and shooting board. I am not sure which plane is best for this no5,6,7, even used they are expensive. Or should I follow Bob and go the machine route this would be much easier on my hands.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Feb 2021, 20:51

Michael, my old No 5 works OK with my shooting board. I think they're better value than the 6 and 7s. They're known as the jack plane for a reason.

I've just used mine to shoot the joins of the headstock veneers and I'll use it for the joins of the backs and tops of the ukuleles.
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby sunnybob » 08 Feb 2021, 21:06

MY63 wrote:I was not sure if this was the best place to ask but it has been such a good read this afternoon.
My son and I are going to make a box together as I was reading this I thought we are definately going to use a hand plane and shooting board. I am not sure which plane is best for this no5,6,7, even used they are expensive. Or should I follow Bob and go the machine route this would be much easier on my hands.
Triton have a jointer for £220.


I've been making woodwork stuff for 6 years now. have a quick flick through the link in my signature for examples. Some of them are pretty good even by other peoples standards. :shock:
I have NEVER used a hand plane or shooting board on any of them.
I've just managed to sell a 4 1/2 and a 5 1/2 that have been cluttering up my workshop for years. :eusa-dance:

Nothing wrong with hand tools if you want to use hand tools. but they are hard work, take much longer, and dont make the finished article any better. 8-)
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby Mike G » 08 Feb 2021, 21:20

Hmmmm......

It depends what you are doing. There are lots of jobs that I do which are quicker and more accurate with hand tools. At least, more accurate if you don't spend half your woodworking life making jigs. I would certainly agree that for repeat work, and for a lot of basic grunt work (ripping and preparing stock, for instance), machines are quick. Sometimes much quicker. But, for instance, I guarantee I'll make a set of dovetails quicker by hand than anyone will with a machine, simply because of the set up time. Two or three sets, and of course the machine wins.

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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby sunnybob » 08 Feb 2021, 21:28

Mike, to save you the time... I have never made a dovetail joint. :D :D
The guy specifically mentioned making a box.
If he had asked about an oak filled manor house I would have never said a word. :lol: :lol: 8-)
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby MY63 » 08 Feb 2021, 21:29

Thanks I love making boxes but planing and preparing wood wrecks my hands which are not great to start with.
The shooting board with the long plane looked easy and not too heavy as it is on the bench.
But the little jointer thing looks so simple especially as I now know what I need. Of course it is out of stock :D
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Re: Edge Planing Help

Postby sunnybob » 09 Feb 2021, 07:27

I've had arthritic hands for abut 8 years now. This year I've been diagnosed with osteo arthritis of the spine, meaning that I cant take any form of shock, even as mild as a hand plane hitting a knot without a flinch.
So I use machines for almost everything. I dont even use handsaws.
Luckily I dont actually want to make large furniture items, so I can still make my medium small stuff quite happily with my machines.
But you need to be clear here, Americans call machines different things to English. Jointer, planer, thicknesser, mean different things depending which side of the atlantic youre on. Youtube is not your friend here due to this.

I have a bench top thicknesser (lunchbox planer in american) which I use to get rough sawn planks flat before I cut the sizes I need on the bandsaw or table saw. If I want small pieces (less than 18" in any direction) like box lids and sides flat, I use a router sled.
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