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Stanley 45 - missing screw

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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Alf » 11 Nov 2021, 15:40

Oh, I'm metric minded (not that old), but it's just that given it was built in inches in a country that still uses inches, it just makes sense (to me) to refer to it in inches. But I agree, the Imperial system does feature rather more poetry and whimsy than metric, which can be frustrating. Mind you, you've bought a 45 - you need to get used to being frustrated. :lol:
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Nov 2021, 15:52

Alf wrote:Oh, I'm metric minded (not that old), but it's just that given it was built in inches in a country that still uses inches, it just makes sense (to me) to refer to it in inches. But I agree, the Imperial system does feature rather more poetry and whimsy than metric, which can be frustrating. Mind you, you've bought a 45 - you need to get used to being frustrated. :lol:


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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Nov 2021, 15:57

Alf wrote:Oh, I'm metric minded (not that old), but it's just that given it was built in inches in a country that still uses inches, it just makes sense (to me) to refer to it in inches.


That does make sense... the main reason I was referring to it as 4.83 mm diameter is that if I have to make one myself, I'll turn it to 4.83 mm as my lathe and all my measuring tools are metric. It also helps as I can sanity check the rough size against an M5 and M4 screw. If my lathe and the extra change gears I've already made for it support 28 TPI then I'll use that pitch, but if not I'll pick the closest metric pitch I can manage (which might be 0.90909 mm if the calculator on my website is right).

In general if I'm writing about something that was originally in inches, I try to write it as either (e.g.) '1/2" (12.7 mm)' or '12.7 mm (1/2")', whereas if I'm writing about something originally in millimetres, I'll just use e.g. 12 mm. That's the "standard" I adopted for my website anyway.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Lurker » 12 Nov 2021, 18:33

Al,

Sorry that I could not help with the screw.
I have just had a look at my various planes

The following use that screw:
050
045
And 80 scraper

So it is not uncommon amongst record planes
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Mike G » 12 Nov 2021, 18:39

Alf wrote:......you've bought a 45 - you need to get used to being frustrated. :lol:


No, no, no, young Alf. A Stanley with an adjusting screw doesn't even begin to register on the international scale of frustration. Get your Record 50 out and fiddle with the lever adjustment to remind yourself why.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Alf » 12 Nov 2021, 18:52

Mike G wrote:
Alf wrote:......you've bought a 45 - you need to get used to being frustrated. :lol:


No, no, no, young Alf. A Stanley with an adjusting screw doesn't even begin to register on the international scale of frustration. Get your Record 50 out and fiddle with the lever adjustment to remind yourself why.

Pish tush. That's what I have the 55 for. :D Actually I'm not sure my 45 has depth adjustment. It probably does; I may be confusing it with the 46. Ye gods, I have no memory of my boat anchors. This is terrible. :cry:
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby AndyT » 12 Nov 2021, 19:14

The screw on a Stanley 55 fence looks like this:

IMG_20211112_180447624_HDR.jpg
Stanley 55
(826.65 KiB)


The equivalent on a Record 405 looks like this:

IMG_20211112_180753827_HDR.jpg
Record 405
(843.63 KiB)


They are simple screws, like the others on the planes.

If you like, I could copy either design, in steel or brass or just take some measurements.

If you want to make your own, I could lend you the die. (The dies are available on eBay and didn't cost much so I quite understand if you want to buy one of your own.)
Last edited by AndyT on 12 Nov 2021, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 12 Nov 2021, 19:16

Lurker wrote:Al,

Sorry that I could not help with the screw.
I have just had a look at my various planes

The following use that screw:
050
045
And 80 scraper

So it is not uncommon amongst record planes


That's useful to know: I've got an #80 and a #50, although I'd rather not steal screws off them. After you let me know you didn't have one of the right size, I had a go this afternoon making one out of a bit of 10 mm brass. The knurling leaves a lot to be desired and I was too lazy to face the end off, but it has proved that the thread pitch and diameter is right as it fits and it works:

new_screw.jpg
(18.28 KiB)


I'll probably make another one out of some 12 mm brass and be less lazy with keeping the knurls oily!

Mike G wrote:
Alf wrote:......you've bought a 45 - you need to get used to being frustrated. :lol:


No, no, no, young Alf. A Stanley with an adjusting screw doesn't even begin to register on the international scale of frustration. Get your Record 50 out and fiddle with the lever adjustment to remind yourself why.


That lever on the (Stanley I think) 50 was one of the reasons I was looking out for a #45! I wondered about the #55 and then I saw how much money they go for :o :shock: :o :shock: :o :shock: :o :shock: :eusa-hand:
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 12 Nov 2021, 19:20

AndyT wrote:The screw on a Stanley 55 fence looks like this:

IMG_20211112_180447624_HDR.jpg


The equivalent on a Record 405 looks like this:

IMG_20211112_180753827_HDR.jpg


They are simple screws, like the others on the planes.

If you like, I could copy either design, in steel or brass or just take some measurements.

If you want to make your own, I could lend you the die. (The dies are available on eBay and didn't cost much so I quite understand if you want to buy one of your own.)


Thanks for that. I'm not too precious about getting it to look exactly right (as you'll see by my quick test run above!). A die would have made it a lot easier, but I can't see me using that thread size very often and it was straightforward to screw-cut it with a single point tool on the lathe.

Nice to see what the originals looked like though.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby AndyT » 12 Nov 2021, 23:26

Ah, nice work.

Confirmation that Egbert P. Watson was right in his "Manual of the Hand Lathe" (1869) when he wrote:

"There is no family in this country that would not find it economy to have a foot lathe in the house where the members have mechanical tastes."

And if your Stanley 45 is as good as my Record 405, it's a really well designed, practical plane.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby droogs » 12 Nov 2021, 23:44

That is weird my #405 definitely has one of the flat thumbscrews for the adjustment and not a "machinescrew" style with a slot.

I wonder if a previous owner has had to replace it and retapped to fit what he/she had?
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby AndyT » 13 Nov 2021, 14:30

If all the thumbscrews and screws are the same oddball thread, it seems very likely that a previous owner would have swapped in whatever fitted.

I guess it's also possible that thumbscrews could have been original equipment at various periods during production runs.

There's probably a type study somewhere, collecting the comparing all the variants!
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 07 Aug 2022, 16:16

Dr.Al wrote:
Alf wrote:Finally tracked down the thread size for you, Doc, and apparently it's a #10-28. Hopefully that means more to you than it does to me!

And unbelievably, Record did copy Stanley's threads.


Brilliant, thanks Alf. That is indeed a non-standard thread as far as I can tell (according to my look-up table, UNF's nearest is #10-32 and UNC's is #10-24), but from that it would suggest a 4.83 mm diameter and 28 TPI (0.91 mm pitch). The diameter sounds about right: an M5 screw won't go in but an M4 one slides in easily. I guess I'd better sharpen my single-point thread cutting tool and hope I've got the gears for 28 TPI (if not I'm pretty sure I can do 0.90909 mm pitch, which is close enough!)


Just in case anyone comes looking for this information in the future, I decided to make another screw as the same one was missing in the #55 I got relatively recently. Before doing so, I got the #10-28 (3/16"-ish, 4.83 mm, 28 TPI or 0.91 mm pitch) screw out of the #45 and tried it in the #55. It was extremely loose. Turns out the one in the #55 is UNF #12-28 (5.49 mm diameter). I guess it depends on the age of the plane.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby AndyT » 07 Aug 2022, 16:39

Dr.Al wrote:
Just in case anyone comes looking for this information in the future, I decided to make another screw as the same one was missing in the #55 I got relatively recently.


Woah, that's a nice drive-by gloat! Tell us more!

(We already know that you are one of those useful people who can make spare parts and new shiny things in all sorts of sizes, materials and threads but further reassurance is no bad thing :) )
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 07 Aug 2022, 16:55

AndyT wrote:
Dr.Al wrote:
Just in case anyone comes looking for this information in the future, I decided to make another screw as the same one was missing in the #55 I got relatively recently.


Woah, that's a nice drive-by gloat! Tell us more!


Oh! I assumed I'd mentioned it when I got it... I picked it up at a junk shop near Stratford-on-Avon back in May. It didn't have many of the cutter boxes and was missing a few bits (the screws and inserts that hold the wooden fence on, the fence locking screw and the pin from the blade depth adjuster thing) and hence was a lot cheaper than any #55s I'd seen before. The lack of cutters didn't bother me given that I've got a lot of them with my #45 and have made a set of metric straight cutters, so I couldn't resist! If I need any complicated shapes for some reason, I can look out for them individually or just make my own out of 3 mm gauge plate.

This is what it looked like shortly after buying it. I'd made some new (metric) inserts for the fence so that the wooden fence thing could be mounted (and rotated) using M4 screws and I'd also made a new blade adjuster pin, but hadn't done much else in the way of cleaning it:

55_as_bought.jpg
(72.19 KiB)


The only more-recent photo I could find was after I hacked up an old handsaw blade:

kerfing_blade.jpg
(23.96 KiB)


So I could use the #55 as a kerfing saw thing (with the two fences providing support on both sides of the workpiece to stop me from wandering off track):

55_kerfing.jpg
(50.04 KiB)


I doubt I'll use it much like that now I've got a bandsaw, although the boxes I finished the other day all had pieces that were resawn using the 55 to create the kerf.

As you can see, I've cleaned the sawdust off it, but not done much else. I haven't even figured out where to store it yet :? :)

The wooden bits of the handle are a little loose, but only very slightly and as a result I haven't had the guts to drive the pins out and replace them.
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby AndyT » 07 Aug 2022, 17:51

Excellent practical stuff!

I bought mine reasonably cheap at auction some years ago, mostly to understand how it worked and what it could do - which I expect piqued your interest as well.

The trouble is, the extra things don't seem to be things that I ever need to do! It can make asymmetrical edge mouldings - but only if the wood is very straight grained and co-operative - and it's nothing like as good at the job as a £5 moulding plane. It can make fancy chamfers - but it's not the right tool for the tiny ones I've been making today.

Making a box for it could be a good project for your very neat dovetails though, and you could 3D print special gizmos to hold the various extra bits!

Here's mine:

IMG_3082_zps3f0bc40f.jpg
(102.66 KiB)


IMG_3083_zpsdbe68647.jpg
(76.5 KiB)
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Dr.Al » 07 Aug 2022, 18:06

AndyT wrote:Excellent practical stuff!

I bought mine reasonably cheap at auction some years ago, mostly to understand how it worked and what it could do - which I expect piqued your interest as well.

The trouble is, the extra things don't seem to be things that I ever need to do! It can make asymmetrical edge mouldings - but only if the wood is very straight grained and co-operative - and it's nothing like as good at the job as a £5 moulding plane. It can make fancy chamfers - but it's not the right tool for the tiny ones I've been making today.

Making a box for it could be a good project for your very neat dovetails though, and you could 3D print special gizmos to hold the various extra bits!

Here's mine:

The attachment IMG_3082_zps3f0bc40f.jpg is no longer available


The attachment IMG_3083_zpsdbe68647.jpg is no longer available


Nice box!

Like you, it was definitely a "want" rather than "need" buy and I did enjoy fiddling around with it to understand how it all works. I'm not that interested in mouldings as a general rule, but I can see the odd situation where I would want to have a plough plane set up in some way or another and then want to plough something different without disturbing the first set up. Having a #45 and a #55 may well solve that one for me at least.

I'm quite tempted to make a box that can take both of the planes. Most of the cutters are common to both planes and there are quite a few other bits and bobs that the #45 came with and the #55 didn't. Having a box that holds both planes will mean I can pick whichever body I want and have the bits and bobs close to hand. The main thing putting me off is figuring out what size and shape that box would need to be (and having a list of projects as long as my arm to get through!)

1659358019678.png
(288.82 KiB)
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Re: Stanley 45 - missing screw

Postby Steve Maskery » 07 Aug 2022, 18:20

I inherited my Dad's No. 45. It was in a nice wooden case. One of the Terry clips was broken, but otherwise it was complete. I seem to remember that there was an extra part in there, too. And some part of it had been broken at some point in its life and welded back together. Or brazed, perhaps. Something like that. It even still had the manual.

Unfortunately it grew legs in The Geat Haul. I hope whoever has it now values it and actually uses it.

Sigh.
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