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Price of Centre Bits

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Price of Centre Bits

Postby Andy Kev. » 13 Mar 2022, 15:55

Jim Bode Tools in the USA had this set of centre bits (and a few other sets at the same time) and all appear to have been snapped up:

https://www.jimbodetools.com/collection ... its-102401

As you can see, they went for a fair bit of money. How much do you think they will have to be going for for one of the (smaller) manufacturers to think it might be worthwhile producing modern ones, perhaps to a higher manufacturing standard? Or will it not happen at all?
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AndyT » 13 Mar 2022, 16:03

Interesting. If anyone in the UK wants any, they'd better buy them now.

I'd say at present the supply looks plentiful, but that's probably skewed by looking at my own, all bought for very little money.

As for making new, I think that one of the virtues of the centre bit is its relative simplicity to make, compared with auger bits.

YouTube often throws up videos of artisan makers in India and Pakistan, working by hand turning out finished goods in simple workshops that a nineteenth century tool maker would recognise.

Maybe someone will set up an arrangement with that sort of maker?
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AJB Temple » 13 Mar 2022, 16:25

Presumably these have been superseded really by flat spade bits that are available in a wide range of sizes, are very easily ground, and fit battery electric drills. I imagine these old bits have largely become tool collector curiosities.
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AndyT » 13 Mar 2022, 16:52

AJB Temple wrote:Presumably these have been superseded really by flat spade bits that are available in a wide range of sizes, are very easily ground, and fit battery electric drills. I imagine these old bits have largely become tool collector curiosities.


Not just that - there's a growing awareness that bits like this can make a lot of sense in the right applications. If you want to be one of the zealous few who don't use any power tools at all, you'll want a set of centre bits to actually use. If you enjoy a "sensible blend" (as I do ;) ) then you'll want bits of all types for hand use and for powered. Maybe some of the interest is a social-media fuelled fad, but not all; there's a cross-fertilisation from green woodworking as well.
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby Andy Kev. » 13 Mar 2022, 17:12

Andy, like you, I have a few bought cheaply and I’ve really got to get around to sharpening them, as opposed to doing one when I need it.

Adrian, I’m sure you’re right about spade bits but there’s no doubt that Centre bits are easy and accurate when used with a brace.

What surprised me about the JB website is that somebody seems to have snapped up several sets.
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AJB Temple » 13 Mar 2022, 19:08

Interesting chaps. I am of the school that an 'ole is what I want, and I just want the easiest way to get said 'ole with absolute minimum of break out or scuffing around the edges.

I do enjoy using hand tools though and if I retire one day and start doing luthiery and fine work again (actually it was not that fine before) then I will use hand tools much more. I find I lean towards Japanese styles and would like to spend more time on that. No idea off hand what the old Japanese boring tools were like.
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby Andy Kev. » 14 Mar 2022, 07:16

AJB Temple wrote:Interesting chaps. I am of the school that an 'ole is what I want, and I just want the easiest way to get said 'ole with absolute minimum of break out or scuffing around the edges.

I do enjoy using hand tools though and if I retire one day and start doing luthiery and fine work again (actually it was not that fine before) then I will use hand tools much more. I find I lean towards Japanese styles and would like to spend more time on that. No idea off hand what the old Japanese boring tools were like.

Don't forget though that the chief purpose of a centre bit is the ability to produce a flat bottomed hole, perhaps to take a bit of dowel etc. Therefore scuffing around the edges is not a factor. Although I've never used a centre bit to go right through a piece of wood, I imagine that the results would be a bit more messy than with a normal brace bit.
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby Pete Maddex » 14 Mar 2022, 11:05

I drill from the other side as soon as the point comes through.

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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AndyT » 16 Mar 2022, 11:59

AJB Temple wrote: I find I lean towards Japanese styles and would like to spend more time on that. No idea off hand what the old Japanese boring tools were like.


Well, that's an interesting question. I know very little about Japanese tools but this is what I found in the only books I have that cover the area.

This is from Toshio Odate's book, "Japanese Woodworking Tools, their Tradition, Spirit and Use". Written in 1984, it was, I believe, a big influence on the rise in Western interest in Japanese tools. The relevant chapter is entitled Gimlets (Kiri).

It shows these simple tools, held in two hands and twiddled manually, like a boy scout lighting a fire.

IMG_20220316_102907_DRO.jpg
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IMG_20220316_102927_DRO.jpg
(298.49 KiB)


The mouse tooth gimlet looks to me more like a modern flat bit than a centre bit - it does score a circle around the central locating point, but it looks like it must cut with a scraping action rather than a paring one.

There's no mention of braces, rotary drills or interchangeable bits.

"China at Work" by the anthropologist Rudolf P. Hommel was published in 1937 when China was rural, traditional and little known outside its own borders. Hommel spent eight years in China in the 1920s and a year in Japan in 1927, which he drew on for some comparisons.

The book records a simple way of life showing the tools and methods used in what was then a subsistence economy. In the chapter about tools for building, Hommel notes that the Chinese did not use the crank for drilling but did use the bow drill, like this:

IMG_20220316_104336_DRO.jpg
(281.8 KiB)


He goes on to show two 'Japanese Twirling Drills':

IMG_20220316_103009_DRO.jpg
(455.81 KiB)


and explains

"This instrument was the only drilling apparatus until recent years, when the western brace and bit, and similar tools were introduced. I was assured by Japanese that the bow and pump drill were never known in Japan. This is a curious fact and we are forced to the conclusion that the Japanese mode of drilling has never advanced beyond the stage which was in vogue in palaeolithic times in Europe, for the neolithic people, going a step farther, had devised a drill held in a frame, and worked with a bow."
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby Artiglio » 20 Mar 2022, 18:17

One of this weeks finds during the clearout.Brands i can read

Moulson Brothers
Ward
Marples (triple shamrock)
C Gray Sheffield
Pibro Brand Made in Sheffield
Mathiesson (star and crescent)
Ridge
Sorby
Buck and Ryan Euston London
Newey and sons ltd
W A Timperle (y)
Clifton and Co ltd
8A599E6D-89A6-43CF-9053-CFB4CFD63A19.jpeg
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby AndyT » 20 Mar 2022, 18:37

That's a nice selection. I see you have some Swiss bits as well - the little gimlet-like ones - some flat countersinks suitable for brass hinges and some screwdriver bits.

Are you keeping them to use or are they an investment? :)
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Re: Price of Centre Bits

Postby Artiglio » 20 Mar 2022, 20:19

I’ve always had a hankering for a display of things i like a sort of modern take on the victorians gentleman’s collection, i’ve a nice brace so they’ll go along side that, no doubt dad picked these up somewhere by looks of them some have been used in the not too distant past.
Found a lump of yew, that has a “quartz” inclusion in it he’d put aside , that’ll get squared up and polished and join the other junk i’ve gathered over the years.
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