It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 10:28

I dream of a Milling Machine

This is the place to go with all your issues, questions or handy hints on all things related to motors, electrickery, engineering, metalwork etc...

I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 05 Jan 2021, 22:57

I've been spending some time making these custom spindle top hats to fit a couple of SCM machines to work with some new tooling, the turning is pretty straightforward on the big lathe but my god I wish I had a milling machine to do the flat cutting! I guess that's why you don't see many handtool metalworkers as you do woodworkers :lol:

All the flat cuts were done with a hacksaw and file, which is rather time-consuming when you're working to fairly precise measurements. Two at 70mm in the major diameter with a minor diameter of 40mm and a bore to suit an M16 countersunk screw with a 46mm across flats spanner point, one at 50mm in the major diameter with a minor diameter of 30mm and the same bore with a 41mm across points spanner point, both have 9.5mm lugs projecting from the bottom to mate with a 10mm slot in the top of the spindle shafts to prevent loosening under DC braking.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I've never done much hot bluing, I didn't really need to do it with these but I did anyway just for a bit of fun. It's definitely not consistent and very blotchy but I think I probably did it less than ideal with a MAPP torch trying to get an even heat and then brushing thick hydraulic oil on rather than immersing it. I think it's a bit of a dark art to do very well.

Image

Image

Image

Image

All I can smell now is boiling Tellus hydraulic oil!
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby novocaine » 05 Jan 2021, 23:06

Vertical slide on the cross slide of your lathe. Suddenly your lathe works as a horizontal mill.

Nice work with the saw and file, its damned hard work. Im lazy, i like cold chisels.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Woodster » 05 Jan 2021, 23:32

I wouldn’t be without my Warco VMC mill, it gets just as much use as my metalwork lathe. Both of them often get used to make parts for my other hobbies. This was a job I did last year, a stainless steel Crown Centre.
I already had the cutter and the materials.
Last edited by Woodster on 07 May 2021, 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Woodster
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2558
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby novocaine » 05 Jan 2021, 23:36

Id just be happy to have my boxford AUD here and not in Nottingham.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Mike G » 05 Jan 2021, 23:52

novocaine wrote:Vertical slide on the cross slide of your lathe. Suddenly your lathe works as a horizontal mill.


I was stunned when my friend told me he used his lathe for milling, but it's so obvious when you think about it.

Nice work with the saw and file, its damned hard work. Im lazy, i like cold chisels.


Nice? I was thinking "brilliant". I had to do some metal filing today, and I'm pretty careful......but measuring it afterwards was a little embarrassing.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 06 Jan 2021, 00:29

Mike G wrote:Nice? I was thinking "brilliant". I had to do some metal filing today, and I'm pretty careful......but measuring it afterwards was a little embarrassing.


Good quality files help tremendously, I bought a few new Bahco Oberg files a couple of years ago and they were revolutionary compared to the old clangers I had kicking around.
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby novocaine » 06 Jan 2021, 08:23

Does it fit the hole it needs to fit with suitable tolerance? If it does then jobs a gooden.

Reading your hot bluing escapades, they are small enough that you could have dumped it in oil rather than brushed it on. Your right that it makes for a much more consistent finish. I do it occasionally and have a bean tin of two stroke on a shelf behind the work bench for doing it. Use a MAPP torch for it too.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Doug » 06 Jan 2021, 08:41

That’s the good thing of having a best mate who has an engineering shop, I can just imagine how long it took you filing :o he made me a complete spindle & rings for my first spindle a BER2 in a couple of hours on Sunday morning.
User avatar
Doug
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2151
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:22
Location: @dougsworkshop
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 06 Jan 2021, 10:56

novocaine wrote:
Vertical slide on the cross slide of your lathe. Suddenly your lathe works as a horizontal mill.


Absolutely....PROVIDED your lathe can be adjusted to provide the rigidity of a mill. I tried it on a lathe just slightly smaller than an ML7 and the chatter was dire. I 'borrowed' a Bridgedale clone with a big chunky collet and tooling to match, no competition. Paradoxically, Bob Loader used to do very well (with minute cuts) on his tiny wee Unisomething lathe. I suspect experience counts and Bob was able to lock everything much more rigidly than I did - and I probably tried to 'hog off' too much with each pass. I still lust after a benchtop mill, something like a Dore Westbury, no room for a floor mounted one.

Sam
A pragmatist inside a perpetual optimist, heavily influenced by an experienced cynic, wrapped around by an aging relic.
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Location: High above the Aln.
Name: Sam

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Dr.Al » 06 Jan 2021, 11:57

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:
novocaine wrote:
Vertical slide on the cross slide of your lathe. Suddenly your lathe works as a horizontal mill.


Absolutely....PROVIDED your lathe can be adjusted to provide the rigidity of a mill. I tried it on a lathe just slightly smaller than an ML7 and the chatter was dire. I 'borrowed' a Bridgedale clone with a big chunky collet and tooling to match, no competition. Paradoxically, Bob Loader used to do very well (with minute cuts) on his tiny wee Unisomething lathe. I suspect experience counts and Bob was able to lock everything much more rigidly than I did - and I probably tried to 'hog off' too much with each pass. I still lust after a benchtop mill, something like a Dore Westbury, no room for a floor mounted one.

Sam


I started my metalworking with a Chinese benchtop lathe - a little Sieg SC2. I got a vertical slide for it to try milling on it but very very quickly realised it wasn't up to the task - just too much slack that I wasn't skilled enough (and/or it wasn't made well enough - probably a bit of both to be honest) to fettle out.

I came out with some methods of doing some very specific milling jobs on the lathe that worked very well, but they were only any good when I was milling right in the middle of a bit of bar stock (i.e. where the vertical slide wasn't required).

It wasn't long before I was saving up for a bench top mill and that's made such a difference.

Of course, since I've upgraded the benchtop lathe to a full size one, I now want a full size milling machine, but I'll have to move house first as there's definitely no space for one where I am now!
My projects website: https://www.cgtk.co.uk
User avatar
Dr.Al
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1964
Joined: 31 Dec 2020, 10:11
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire
Name: Al

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Woodster » 06 Jan 2021, 12:20

I use liquid Gun Blue for steel parts. Works extremely well on small parts if they are very clean and warmed up a little.
User avatar
Woodster
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2558
Joined: 26 Jan 2017, 13:17
Location: Dorset
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 06 Jan 2021, 14:51

I came out with some methods of doing some very specific milling jobs on the lathe that worked very well, but they were only any good when I was milling right in the middle of a bit of bar stock (i.e. where the vertical slide wasn't required).


"Ahhhh. Dem's Kewl, Massa Budden Sah!".

I'm lusting after a 'new', 'proper' metal lathe, having had to sell my old Chekkohttp://www.lathes.co.uk/chekko/ to move here. ['Getting by' on a Myford ML4 older than I am in the mean time just isn't the same]. I had access to an old, lovely, Colchester in Bangor Tech too, cracking machine, rigid as hell and 40-60 thou roughing cuts? Easy. Then 10 steps to a brand new Bridgeport clone...drool. The only thing Colchester faltered on was a piece of ceramic rocket fuselage what 'fell off a lorry' from Shorts...more tooling inadequacy than lack of power or finesse... :shock:

Sam
A pragmatist inside a perpetual optimist, heavily influenced by an experienced cynic, wrapped around by an aging relic.
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Location: High above the Aln.
Name: Sam

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 06 Jan 2021, 14:56

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:I had access to an old, lovely, Colchester in Bangor Tech too, cracking machine, rigid as hell and 40-60 thou roughing cuts? Easy. Then 10 steps to a brand new Bridgeport clone...drool. The only thing Colchester faltered on was a piece of ceramic rocket fuselage what 'fell off a lorry' from Shorts...more tooling inadequacy than lack of power or finesse... :shock:


This is mine, a CVA MK1A

Image

I can take a 250 thou cut with it in steel but I wouldn't want to do it all the time :shock:
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby clogs » 06 Jan 2021, 17:25

How many woodworkers with metal machines....?

Me.
2 full size mills...1 as new....
2 lathes, an as new Myford S7 with gearbox and a Colchester Student.....
8-10 pillar drills
4 bench grinders
pedestal polisher...
plus a ton more.....
I use the wood machines for house repairs and cash jobs and making patterns for old imposs to buy car, m/cycle and tractor parts.....

I really fancy a smallish shaper, 4ft guilotene and a pan folder....one can dream...but it wont happen here...
clogs
Sapling
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 07:18
Location: Crete, Greece
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 06 Jan 2021, 17:54

by Trevanion » Today, 14:56

This is mine, a CVA MK1A


No, I'm not jealous, no, not at all, just happen to be Grinch-coloured through a old family genetic mutation...

Nice bit of kit, Dan. I'm assuming self-act in both dimensions, judging by the levers on the cross slide? And, is that a Reeves Drive control on the L.H. pedestal?

Sam
A pragmatist inside a perpetual optimist, heavily influenced by an experienced cynic, wrapped around by an aging relic.
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Location: High above the Aln.
Name: Sam

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby droogs » 06 Jan 2021, 20:48

@Trevanion, that's a rather lot of knobs to have on an Aga
droogs
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1015
Joined: 09 May 2015, 10:35
Location: Edinburgh
Name: Alan

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 06 Jan 2021, 21:03

droogs wrote:@Trevanion, that's a rather lot of knobs to have on an Aga


It took a while to wrap my head around them all and figure out what does what. Still haven't figured out how to turn on the oven on the bottom right though.

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:Nice bit of kit, Dan. I'm assuming self-act in both dimensions, judging by the levers on the cross slide? And, is that a Reeves Drive control on the L.H. pedestal?

Sam


Yes, it has powered long and cross feed which can be directionally altered by pushing in or pulling out the silver knob on the carriage.

Do you mean the big dial when you say "Reeves Drive control"? That's the threading and feed rate selector, push the central handle in to disengage the gears inside and wind it left or right to the required setting then pull it back towards yourself, turn the knob on the left side to either A B or C to refine further what rate you want, the knob on the right selects between feed and threading gears in conjunction with the lever above the dial being in the middle for feeds, to the left for left-hand threads, and the right for right-hand threads. Threading is accomplished by pushing the knob on the carriage to the central position which will allow you to throw the lever on the right side on the face of the carriage which engages the half-nuts onto the lead-screw, there's a threading dial that spins on the top of the carriage which is numbered 1 to 4 at quarter increments, choose a number and keep with it when threading.

The lever to the bottom left selects between direct drive high speed and back gear slow speed, and the round wheel to the right is for selecting the spindle speeds.
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Rod » 06 Jan 2021, 22:48

Wow some machine, I’ve got a tiny original Emco Uinimat with a mill attachment.
I’ve been using it to make clocks.
I’ve also got a slightly bigger Warco.
I missed out on a Myford 7 when a local school sold off their stuff but got a Meddings pillar drill for £25 and a school workbench.

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4471
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 06 Jan 2021, 23:28

Thanks Dan. That is much the same arrangement as on the one I used. I had meant the canted circular wheel at knee level, with the smaller circle set into it.

Sam

Late edit: spindle speed selector?
Last edited by SamQ aka Ah! Q! on 07 Jan 2021, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
A pragmatist inside a perpetual optimist, heavily influenced by an experienced cynic, wrapped around by an aging relic.
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Location: High above the Aln.
Name: Sam

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby AJB Temple » 06 Jan 2021, 23:54

I think that is impressive work.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5428
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 14 Jan 2021, 20:46

If anyone was curious, here they are in situ:

Image

Image

Image

The reason the top hats are 10mm larger on the tenoner than the originals is that I didn't have complete faith in those two M6 screws holding the massive cutter blocks to the sleeve they were on, since they're 60 bore tooling on 40mm sleeves, the shaft is 40mm and the spacers were 60mm on the outer diameter the tooling in theory could fly off the shaft if those two little screws ever decided to shear, not taking any chances with tooling over 12" in diameter cutting over 4" in height coming off so at least they're captive on the shaft in the event of a catastropic failure.

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:Late edit: spindle speed selector?


Yes, it is the spindle speed selector, just rotate it around and through the sight glass shows both Direct and Back Gear RPM speeds, I think it goes from something like 30RPM up to 2200RPM.
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Trevanion » 04 Jun 2021, 21:01

Once again I find myself dreaming...

Image

I've got to cover this protruding gear with a plate of some description, I thought the ideal candidate would be a 6mm aluminium plate with a slot cut into it so that the gear would fit inside and be covered. Of course, without a milling machine it's not such a straightforward operation to put a slot in such a piece of aluminium like that.

Image

I do have a couple of small hand-me-down milling cutters, So with the most sketchy looking setup (literally G-clamping the aluminium to my toolpost) on the lathe, I made the slot in the aluminium, having the move the position of the workpiece six times in all to cut it without hitting the clamps.

Image

This piece sits over two cast parts, there's a small lip between those two parts so the plate needed a small "rebate" cut into it so that it would sit flat between them, I didn't fancy doing it on the lathe so I took small (and very loud) cuts on the table saw to cut it.

Image

Plate in place, took a hell of a lot longer than it really should have! One of these days I'll have to think about getting a milling machine... :lol:
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Dr.Al » 05 Jun 2021, 08:05

I used to dream of having a milling machine. Now I dream of having a bigger milling machine...
My projects website: https://www.cgtk.co.uk
User avatar
Dr.Al
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1964
Joined: 31 Dec 2020, 10:11
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire
Name: Al

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby Dalboy » 05 Jun 2021, 09:35

I am still at the stage of dreaming of a bigger workshop to fit a mill and metal lathe in.

Great job on the pieces for the spindle molder
Dalboy
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: 29 Aug 2014, 11:16
Name:

Re: I dream of a Milling Machine

Postby AndyT » 05 Jun 2021, 09:43

I was going to suggest that the simplest way to make your slotted cover could be as a stack of thinner pieces riveted together, ie a frame of little bits around the gear, with a flat cover over it. Epoxy or rivets to hold it together, or just position the fixing screws strategically to go through both layers in the right places. Just straight saw cuts and a bit of drilling.
Maybe next time!
--------------
Andy
User avatar
AndyT
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2364
Joined: 23 Nov 2020, 19:45
Location: Bristol
Name: Andy

Next

Return to Engineering - Electrical/Metalworking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests