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Calling Motorman!

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Calling Motorman!

Postby Trevanion » 04 Mar 2021, 20:42

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And anyone else who's got an opinion... :)

So I've got a spindle moulder coming my way that's got a 2.2KW motor in it, plenty of power for most work but not quite gutsy enough for heavier loads with taller or stacked cutters. The machine itself is built more than adequately enough for heavier loads and a larger motor should fit no problem whatsoever so I was thinking about upgrading it to a 3KW motor for the extra power. It'll be single-phase and fairly certain a 2-pole motor, I'd like to keep it single-phase.

Not being the most clued up on motors, I'm not really sure what would be a good buy, are the cheaper TEC motors any good, or is it worth putting up the cash for a Brook Crompton unit, or do you buy an older secondhand motor?

I don't think there's anything I'm overlooking, but there are people here that know more than me :D

The budget isn't too constrained, it's the absolute bargain of the century so a little bit extra for a better machine won't hurt and can only make it worth more.
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby sunnybob » 04 Mar 2021, 21:07

Having absolutely no experience with spindle moulders, but a fair passing acquaintanceship with motor driven machinery, are all the moving parts made well enough to withstand a 50% increase in torque?
Gearboxes especially dont take kindly to being over stressed.
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby 9fingers » 04 Mar 2021, 21:18

Ok in terms of fitting, the original motor will likely be a 90 frame with 24mm shaft and the 3kw will almost certainly a 100 frame 28mm shaft so even if the there is room you will need a longer belt and new or bored out pulley. Boring out the pulley is easy enough but cutting a new keyway is a PITA unless you have the machine facility. Best way out is to fit a new pulley with taperlock system.
Make sure the motor is a capacitor start and run type, you will need the extra torque to turn the pulley step ratio to the spindle. Will need a 32amp supply/mcb too. Depending on the age of the DOL starter, you might not be able to get the correct overload relay to protect the new motor so factor in a new DOL.

TEC motors are generally OK or a Marelli which is a bit better quality for not too much more money. Second hand single phase can be a bit of a risk. If the centrifugal switch is knackered then its hard/impossible to get spares.

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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby Trevanion » 04 Mar 2021, 21:19

sunnybob wrote:Having absolutely no experience with spindle moulders, but a fair passing acquaintanceship with motor driven machinery, are all the moving parts made well enough to withstand a 50% increase in torque?
Gearboxes especially dont take kindly to being over stressed.


A spindle moulder honestly couldn't be any simpler! It's just a regular 4-step V-pulley set-up, one on the motor and one at the base of the spinning shaft column, nothing to go wrong as such :D
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby Trevanion » 04 Mar 2021, 21:39

9fingers wrote:Ok in terms of fitting, the original motor will likely be a 90 frame with 24mm shaft and the 3kw will almost certainly a 100 frame 28mm shaft so even if the there is room you will need a longer belt and new or bored out pulley. Boring out the pulley is easy enough but cutting a new keyway is a PITA unless you have the machine facility. Best way out is to fit a new pulley with taperlock system.
Make sure the motor is a capacitor start and run type, you will need the extra torque to turn the pulley step ratio to the spindle. Will need a 32amp supply/mcb too. Depending on the age of the DOL starter, you might not be able to get the correct overload relay to protect the new motor so factor in a new DOL.


Thanks, Bob.

Of course, when I get the machine I will check before running out and buying a motor whether it will actually fit or not, I think it's a rather large cavity in the cabinet so I think it should fit, I believe the motor is also fixed with some kind of metal hinge which I reckon'll be easy enough to upsize for a larger motor. I had it in my head that I'd probably need to bore the pulley and cut a new keyway anyway, not too much of a biggie in my lathe with a slotting tool in the carriage, hopefully. Plenty of power coming in and I think the DOL that's on it is a fairly new unit, but I might end up replacing it regardless.

This is all speculative anyway, I even might just leave it with the 2.2KW motor in it to save the hassle :lol:

9fingers wrote:TEC motors are generally OK or a Marelli which is a bit better quality for not too much more money. Second hand single phase can be a bit of a risk. If the centrifugal switch is knackered then its hard/impossible to get spares.


That's a very fair point, you never know what life a secondhand motor has led and it may have just been left out in the rain for years and the insides have rotted away. Thanks for the heads-up or Marelli, are there any other makers worth their salt?
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby 9fingers » 04 Mar 2021, 22:17

Most things on a motor are fixable but centrifual swithes are not standardised and if the motor is no longer in production generally you are stuffed especially at the higher power levels where 3 phase would be the bulk of the motors used/made.

TEC and Marelli are the most common makes at reasonable prices. Then you get up to the big names and prices to suit and unless you are running many hours/day and every day its possible not worth shelling out. The basic weakness will be capacitor life on all of them - thankfully not too costly to replace.

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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby Mike Jordan » 05 Mar 2021, 17:49

I would suggest that you give the 2.2 motor a try first, even with stacked blocks and a substantial cut there should be no problem with power.
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby Trevanion » 05 Mar 2021, 19:05

Mike Jordan wrote:I would suggest that you give the 2.2 motor a try first, even with stacked blocks and a substantial cut there should be no problem with power.


I will definitely try it first, but from experience, I've found these particular moulders to be a little underpowered when trying to take heavier cuts for something like a glazed door moulding and rebate.
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Re: Calling Motorman!

Postby kirkpoore1 » 09 Mar 2021, 06:26

Don’t forget that you will likely need to change the settings or replace the overloads on your starter if you get a more powerful motor. Otherwise it will trip too soon, before you can take advantage of the power increase.

I have to disagree a little with Bob. Even on a 1ph motor there’s very little to go wrong. Buying used can save a lot of money, even if you have to change the bearings. But if you change pulleys, taperlock is entirely the way to go.

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